champignon

This is my first post here and (hopefully) the question I am posing isn't too repetitive of what you see here daily :-)

I have a regular Giant road bike I use at home, in a Rocky Mtn. ski resort town, and have recently purchased a high end Dahon (X27H) I will use in a medium sized city where I have business interests and own a house in partnership with a business partner. I got a deal on it recently and haven't yet been able to ride it (in the snow!) I am seeking a 3rd bike, also a folder, for taking along on air trips to both France and San Diego, where I have family. I bought the X27H for its capabilities and for its ability to be easily folded, for getting around to business appointments and for easily taking it inside. I am intending to baby the X27H and do not want to subject it to air travel.

I do not live in an area where I can easily test out the bikes that are out there that might fit my needs, and I don't travel to the larger cities where you find dealers in folding bikes, so I need to try to make a decision without actually laying hands on the bike I'm looking at buying now, which I'll describe below. I realize there are significant differences among the 16" and 20" choices as regards ride-ability, there are issues with ease of folding and ultimate folded size, weight, gearing, etc. I haven't been able to figure out for myself what would be the best choice(s) out there, so maybe you can help me. I am a male in my late 50s, in good physical shape for my age, short (5'5" in height) and weighing around 145 lbs. Usage would be on bike paths and streets, possibly on dirt paths but nothing in bad condition and nothing resembling mountain biking. A good ride for me on my standard bike is 30 miles, however I'd probably do less on this travel bike, more likely in the range of 10-20 miles.

I want a bike that is of at least decent quality, has at least several gears, is low maintenance, durable, relatively lightweight, and can be packed easily into an airline legal (not oversize) bag that will protect it for travel on commercial airlines. I am not a bicycle mechanic, but I can do at least a few things with my hands. 16" folders will generally fold down to an airline legal size, but I realize that one can also take a 20" folder and disassemble it to get it into a legal size suitcase. Videos and threads I have read about disassembling 20" bikes to get them down to legal size look intimidating to me. But maybe there are 20" folding bikes that have less in the way of "stuff" to bother with in disassembling/reassembling, so if it is something that a klutz could do in a few minutes without throwing brakes, shifters, etc. out of alignment, than these 20" bikes should be considered. A kevlar chain and internal gearing would be nice but looks to only be available on a select few bikes and usually not together. Weight is important in that I'll also have to lug a regular heavy suitcase and backpack on my air trips. I rent a car where I go however the cars are not large in France so it is going to have to fit somewhere in the car along with all my other stuff. Budget could be up to a $1000, maybe a little bit more, or certainly less. I don't want a cheap piece of junk :-) I have considered the Strida however it does not appear to be designed for the sort of use I have planned for this bike.

I can buy this bike in the USA, or I could wait until my next trip to France in late April, and could buy it there. I know there are a few French folders out there that perhaps would merit consideration. Having to pay duty on a bike coming back into the USA would however be a negative, so on balance I'd probably prefer to buy it here in the US.

All suggestions would be very welcome!

1nterceptor

Folder with 20 in. wheels stuffed into a standard luggage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUQNU2DKiWw

champignon

I'm sure I could do that, but on reassembly (by my hands) it would probably more resemble a blender or a toaster oven

HGR3inOK

Where are you located?

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

smallwheeler

get a brompton.

brakemeister

you need a Curve SL with derailleurs .... unfortunately looong sold out.. but sometimes one can find one on craig or ebay ... I just sold my personal Curve SL with internal gears .... .....

Thor

Ozonation

Brompton.

To me, based on what you wrote, you're emphasizing the form factor (less bulk-to-weight ratio), convenience of the fold, and peace of mind (can I reassemble this? will it hold up?). The Brompton has the smallest fold, and it requires very little assembly/dissssembly for airline packing. It has a proven and dependable track record. I'm 5'11" and I have the extended tube: I have to remove the seat when packing - easy to do. My wife is 5'6" - her Brompton goes into the case as is, seat and all.

I use the B&W hard case. To pack, I stuff the case with some extra padding, wedge the gaps inbetween some of the tubes and tires/fenders to prevent excessive movement, and cinch everything tight with a few velcro straps. As the baggage handlers toss it around, the bike is accelerating inside, and unlike regular items (clothes), it's a good 30 lbs of solid metal hurtling around until it hits the inside of the case and stops. Extra padding is good. I deflate the tires a bit to account for change in air pressure when traveling, and remove my seat. I cram my helmet and few other odds and ends, including tools, to make it just under the 50 lb regulation for checked luggage. It takes about 15 minutes to pack because I want to be careful.

Note that if you get the rear rack for the Brompton, it makes for a tighter fit into the case.

At my destination, I unpack, reinflate, tighten my seat, and I'm good to go. It takes about 10 minutes; far shorter than the time it takes for me to get my riding clothes out, figure out the bathroom taps, realize I didn't pack the document I needed to bring, etc.

Getting the Brompton was one of the best things I ever did. It will easily hold up to a 10, 20, 30 mile or longer trip. I've traveled with it three times via air last year on conference travel, and I specifically bought it for air travel. I'm much like you: there was no place nearby to try one out, so I had to go out of my way to test ride a Brompton and a Tern. If you get a Brompton, I highly recommend a Brooks saddle and some Ergon grips. The Brompton is great, but they put awful foam grips on the handle - go figure.

But... it's not cheap, not does it offer the full versatility of a 20" folder for which you can get better wheels. There are tradeoffs. Still, the Brompton handles great as a folding bike, and it looks distinct! I also appreciate it comes in nice, solid colours, not crazy colour patterns. I will be presumptuous and say that if you can afford to baby your X27H, springing the extra for a Brompton will be worth it.

I think I've posted this a million times now, but here you go. Good luck with your decision.

Diode100

Pardon, why with derailleurs ?

To see how it's done, Have you a photo of a curve in an airline suitcase ?

champignon

Idaho, Sun Valley area

champignon

Thanks for your suggestions.

Not having seen a Brompton in the flesh, I am of course limited in my reaction however from what I have read, Bromptons are like Bike Fridays, in that they cost more than they are worth when one looks at the components and what you get for what you pay. I could probably afford one, but I am a cheap bastard at heart. Also, the trips I would take the bike on are NOT bike touring trips, rather they are largely gastronomic and wine-related trips to France, where I try in vain to exercise enough not to come back looking like Bibandom, the Michelin Man, or to visit family in San Diego. I hesitate to spend several thousand dollars on a bike that it might turn out I don't use all that much. And if I get completely infected by the bug of bike riding on these trips, then I could always sell or give away whatever I buy now, and buy something better in a year or two. But I do want to prove to myself that I'll actually use the thing enough to justify a big purchase price, something I have yet to do.

If I was to buy a Brompton, since I do pass through London Heathrow on my trips to France, perhaps there would be a way to buy one in the UK at a lower price and have it delivered to me in the airport en route to France, but then it (probably) would still be considerably more expensive than I want to pay at this point.

thanks again

smallwheeler

ozonation, what better wheels are you referring to?

champignon

The Dahon Mu N-360 looked interesting initially (no derailleur, per se), however it is a bit heavy, over my planned budget, and probably would not disassemble easier than other 20 inchers out there. Am I correct? And there is a Tern that looks to have a lot of bang for the buck (?D8 model?) however, again, I think dis-assembly/reassembly would probably be beyond my toleration/capabilities. I tossed out the Strida LT, but does it merit any further consideration? Thanks.

pacificcyclist

First of all, if all your air travel is predominantly US domestic bound, then it is TSA (yes the security people) who will not be nice to your bike. Though in my experience, very rarely will TSA open up a suitcased bike like yours. TSA had been known to damage nice bikes because they did not know how to re-package the bike back into the box. Last year, one of our friends with a Project One Trek Madone had her rear triangle destroyed even while it was in a Thule case or another friend who got her Brodie damaged on the front fork so bad she needed replacing. But these are not common. Make sure you provide instructions on how to re-pack the bike back into the case. More than often, the damage is incurred because they don't have a clue how to put the puzzle back in, though in some cities where triathlon or cycling sport events are held often, these officers are more experienced in handling exotic bikes. However, these are the exception to the rule. In regards to your Dahon, what's wrong travelling with it? If you have a good case for it, you can safely transport it. You can buy 2 different cases for your Dahon available both from ThorUSA. The big one (Airporter) will allow you to stuff your Dahon with minimal take apart. The smaller one (Airporter Mini) will require more take apart, but meets the max 62" linear inches requirements. Secondly, 50lbs is the max, but some airlines have a lesser limit of 40lbs. Plus the scale is overage towards your luggage being heavier than it is by about a few pounds -- we have a digital scale here calibrated often by Canada Post. Some airlines will exercise 1lbs overage good will, but that's it. SO, it is towards your interest to buy the lightest bike you can afford with the lightest case so you can have more leeway in the oversized overpoundage airline nickel and dime you to death policy. I would just keep the Dahon X27h and ride it. Trust me, once you rode a road speedster folder, it's kind of difficult to downgrade to a lesser bike. I know-- I've got 2 Dahon bikes and I like the Mu SL a lot more because it's lighter and stiffer than my Speed Duo which translates to a faster and more responsive ride. I travel with the Mu SL more though than the Duo, though I might christen the Duo this year on its first madden voyage. But the Duo is a heavier bike than the Mu SL! We'll see.

HGR3inOK

Seems to me that the OP's options include getting a regular-sized "Airporter" (see: https://www.thorusa.com/accessories/bags.htm) and pretty much any Dahon or Tern with 20" wheels. He would likely pay some oversize charges to the airlines, but packing and unpacking the bike would be about the same as with a Brompton.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

Ozonation

I'm just pining away for some 16" Big Apples that would give me a bit more suspension, or even if I could stuff some BMX style tires for winter riding. I saw some cheap 16" kids BMX tires at my local Canadian Tire, but they're too fat for the clearance.

It's not likely to happen in the near future, but I can dream...

champignon

I think I'd be more in "tourist" mode rather than "biker" mode on my trips, and since I've been going to these places for years without any bike, having any sort of bike would be a real plus. In addition, since I'm not going to be relying on the bike I'd use on these trips for transportation, rather for exercise and venturing further than I can on foot, I think I could make the adjustment to having a lesser bike. The issues you raise about travel damage to a bike are very concerning, and all of my trips involve more than one flight, and possibly more than one TSA or similar inspection. This again makes me think of the question of whether a Strida might work, in that it could be packed into a golf bag of some sort (from what I have read) and it likely would not be as subject to damage enroute as a more complicated bike. Plus, its (folded) shape would lend it be more easily put into a public trash can if I needed or decided to dispose of it during a trip :-)

champignon

Thanks for your reply. Those airline overage charges would mount up mighty fast, being as when I go internationally I use at least two different tickets on 2 different airlines each way, plus often I make an intermediate stop to visit family when I go on the long (French) trips. ~$75 x3 in each direction would buy another bike pretty quickly on my French trips (twice yearly), and then when I go to California it could be another $150 round trip. It is just that sort of thing that would cause me (knowing myself) to buy a bike and then leave it in the garage and not take it with me, after deciding it wasn't worth several hundred dollars, this time, ​to take the bike along.

Ozonation

Well Champignon... you're asking for a good, folding bike that is very easy to assemble (or not assemble at all), packs easily into car boots, fits into tight spaces while partaking in gastronomic delights, is easily transportable, offers a decent ride under moderate usage... and is cheap.

I know you're not considering touring on this folding bike, but after you get accustomed to it, you might want to travel further than you initially thought. And, you did mention 10 to 20 miles - that's not exactly a 5 minute jaunt to your local une épicerie. You ride at least two bikes right now, one of which is a folder and not cheap at all, and since you say you're in decent shape, you probably expect a decent level of performance from your bikes. And you also say you're not sure you'll be be smitten by riding on these (overseas) trips, but since you already own a folder, I'm guessing you have a better idea than most of how much you would actually use a folder when traveling than those of us (including me) who never owned a folder in the first place and took the plunge eyes wide open.

Yes, there are some rather cheap looking bits on the Brompton, but they haven't broken on me yet, but I assure you, the whole is significantly more than the sum of the parts. It's a solid bike, thoughtfully designed, and well made overall: to me, the benefit-to-cost ratio of owning and using this bike is more than justified.

But it doesn't even have to be a Brompton - maybe it's a Bike Friday, another Tern, Dahon, or something else. Even if it does meet your budget, by the time you get the case, figure out what you need to pack, etc., it won't be as inexpensive as you might think. My point is that if you're sure you need a folder for travel, don't go "cheap" - buy a quality bike. You might be able to forgive and live with cheap on a regular bike; you'll feel it and regret it many times over on a folding bike.

Otherwise, save your money, and as pacificcyclist recommends, use your current X27H. Maybe take some of the money you would have spent for some alternate, more tour friendly tires and handle bar to toss on your X27H, and to buy a case.

I'm reminded of the adage: good, cheap, durable - pick any two. Happy trails!

Diode100

i used to have a strida clone and to mind it does not fold to a small package compared to other bikes, plus it has both 16" wheels magnetted together at one end, so i wonder if it would indeed fit into the mythical golf bag - has anyone actually tried it ?

it's a nice thought to be able to whip a bike though check in without having to pay extra, which i suppose begs the question - does golf equipment fly free ?

pacificcyclist

When I travel, I'm both depending where I am so I need a bike that can do both. I read that you have 2 nice bikes so I assume you're more fit and performance oriented. I apologize if I made this assumption. Like Ozonation said, you'll be wanting to venture much further because in a foreign place, that's what you'll be doing. To be limited by the bike when your performance and endurance cycling level can take you further can become a disappointment. I know I do. Besides having a multi-geared bike in a position that you're used to most (roadie position) will lend yourself to more biking satisfaction. Let's face it, I don't particularly like the Mu SL's hybrid higher cockpit layout as I'm a roadie. But that's a compromise that I have to live with it. If I want a more customized roadie fit, then I would go for the Bike Friday Pocket Rocket or a Tern Verge X30 which I wouldn't mind upgrading towards!

Many triathletes (professional and amateur) alike travel with their exotic race bikes in their Thule or the Bikend Helium (very nice and light) have to go through the same issues as we do, though I suspect that we as folder owners will receive few issues. The issues I had with TSA were minor. My rear derailleur hanger and the lattice hinge assembly got damaged before, but I know super nice guy Thor is always there if I need parts. But I learnt that if you provide good instruction for TSA people to pack the bike back, then usually the bike will rarely get damaged. When I was at the Phoenix Sky Harbour airport in 2011, I saw a line up of super exotic bikes being inspected by the TSA after Ironman Arizona. Oh gosh, talk about BIKE PORN! Don't worry about your Dahon ever getting damaged. If my Mu SL finally get severely damaged, then cest la vie. Next Tern Verge X30 I guess. Don't loose any sleep about your bike. It's really not worth it. It's just a thing you know. Just travel with it and deal with it.

smallwheeler

from the uses you describe, the brompton would be nearly perfect for your needs.
you gave 1000 as your budget. you can get a used brompton for around that price or a new one for a few hundred more. note: the resale value on a brompton is very high. if, for whatever reason, you want to sell it later on, you will pretty much get your money back (that should appeal to the cheap bastard in you).

https://www.ebay.com/csc/Bicycles-Frames-/33503/i.html?LH_Sold=1&_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=brompton

also, dont buy into this BS about "components". the components on a brompton are engineered to optimize the functionality of the bike. no, it doesnt come stock with shimano dura ace grupo. improvements are being made in-house, and because the brompton has such a loyal following, aftermarket and custom parts are becoming more readily available.

https://www.brompfication.com/17-hinge-clamp-plate.html

https://road.cc/content/news/67315-ne...cts-cycle-show

regarding Bike Friday, they are, without question, primo bicycles that can be fitted with any component group you choose. you will not find a better travel bike (one that requires some disassembly and hard case packing).

additionally, dont believe the hype about 20" wheels being better than 16" wheels. generally speaking, the people who hold that opinion are either just repeating what they have heard or comparing 20" 406 wheels to 16" 305 wheels that are found on chinese folders and kids bikes. brompton, and a few other higher end folding bikes use 16" 349 wheels. note the earth-shattering difference between 349 and 406 wheels:



next, the naysayer will inform you that there are far fewer options for tires for 16" 349 wheels. this is true, because the 20" 406 wheel is very common and used on kids bikes and bmx bikes. however, of the tires that you would WANT to put on a folding bike, many of the very best quality tires are available.

https://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/...ategory=700910

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres-16-%28349%29-dept192/

ALSO:

for airline travel, can any other bike beat this??? i mean honestly??

https://primacyclorina.com/2012/02/24...t-by-brompton/

Ozonation

You've come back to the Strida a few times. I'm sure you've read a lot of reviews. Here's one that seems relatively objective: https://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/0...y-wthe-st.html

According to Strida's website, the LT modle costs US $650, so probably on the low end of the more affordable Terns and Dahons, and about half the price of a Brompton - definitely more affordable. You'd still have to factor in a case though, and there's probably a couple of accessories you'll want or need. The SX model is $800 - now the price is getting up there. Gearing is mostly single speed: either 53" or 60" - middle of the pack compared to most other geared folding bikes.

But if you're keying in on air travel, I doubt it would be any easier to travel with. The folded size is 45" X 20" X 9". Any case or bag will be marginally larger or noticeably larger depending on the case and its construction. I severely question whether any modern airline would allow you to bring it on board. If it is supposedly similar to golf clubs, I can't recall seeing any golf club bags being brought on board in the last 10 years, if not more. The Strida also weighs 22 lbs; my Brompton comes in at 29 lbs. The major difference will be the case itself and any accessories you choose to pack and carry. From what I can tell, the weight alone, combined with the bulk, would negate any carry on advantage for getting a Strida over a Brompton or Bike Friday. It would very likely be checked in.

So, if you're focused on a Strida for its folding and portability, great. However, in terms of the practicalities of air travel, I cannot discern any particular advantage over the slightly larger folding bikes that I would think offer you greater riding flexibility.

fietsbob

The smaller fold even makes general aviation a good buyer, to get in to town from the less improved airpark. ..

Ozonation

I had never seen this link before. That's just too awesome. Seriously.

pacificcyclist

It's funny how people here seemed to espouse buying more expensive bikes as a solution to the OP's request, which is a bike that is lesser quality and cheaper than his Dahon X27H.

The OP has new bike fever. Notice that he hasn't even ridden it cause there's still snow on the ground. He doesn't want any dings and scratches nor salt from the road. They are very bad for his shiny new bike. He's got a nice Ferrari, but he's looking to buy a Honda Civic for riding errands so the scratches and dings would be on the Civic. Rather, you guys tell him to buy a Porsche or Lexus so he'll feel better. It's better to have scratches and dings on the Porsche not on the Ferrari?!?

You guys certainly know how to justify spending lots of money. LOL

Sooner or later, anyone with new bike fever will wane. When I got my first ding and scratch on my shiny new Mu SL, I said the heck with it. Babying time's over. Today, it's got a lot more of those battle scars. People is full of B.S when they said they travel a lot by bike yet the bike is so pristine shiny and damage free. I don't have any BS. Look at my Mu SL battle scars and it tells many tales where it went; not to mention my travel stickers heheh!