Is this ti frame weld OK?
#1
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 38
Likes: 2
Is this ti frame weld OK?
The bike is a Giordana Titanium AL from around 1995. Frame is said to be by Litespeed. Is the drive side weld between the chair stay and dropout OK? There is a circumferential hairline crack. See photos.
Thanks
Jim

Thanks
Jim


#5
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 937
From: South Jersey
Its definitely broken. If it were mine, I'd weld it and keep riding it until it eventually failed. It would be a difficult repair to do correctly, since there is no way to clean the inside and Ti needs to be super clean to prevent contamination.
#8
Most interesting failure. My guess is there is a plug that inserts into the tube. With other materials, a joint like that would be epoxy bonded, but I assume yours was welded.
It should be reasonably stable, but I fear that the geometry of putting the entire load on the seatstays would tend to pull the plug out, and risk a catastrophic failure on the road.
https://www.ticycles.com in Portland does frame repairs. Perhaps other titanium frame builders too. It is worth contacting them before you scrap the frame. Or, sell it with full disclosure of requiring repairs.
Is that a 700c/650c(24") frame?
It should be reasonably stable, but I fear that the geometry of putting the entire load on the seatstays would tend to pull the plug out, and risk a catastrophic failure on the road.
https://www.ticycles.com in Portland does frame repairs. Perhaps other titanium frame builders too. It is worth contacting them before you scrap the frame. Or, sell it with full disclosure of requiring repairs.
Is that a 700c/650c(24") frame?
#9
Senior Member


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 14,151
Likes: 5,273
From: Portland, OR
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
I'm guessing that would be a straightforward repair for any builder doing ti. Fietsbob suggests filing a "V". I was thinking a clean hacksaw cut. This stay-end is a bullet plug that inserts into the chainstay. There's plenty of material there. If the crack continues, the dropout would be free to move back (limited by the "spring" of the seatstay) but not move vertically or side-to-side until the bullet has slipped fully out of the chainstay. (I'm guessing there is a 1/2" of plug or more in there.)
Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen. I've broken chainstays behind the support while riding and just noticed a small difference in feel until I looked down and saw the chainstay swinging a little. Rode home with no issues. (Granted a flat 2 miles.) Bikes have a lot of redundancy in that area. The left side alone is enough to keep things together. Then you have the hub and right seatstay. So all the OP needs to do to avoid the worst is to be a little attentive. Feel an change? Look down before diving into a corner and doing a hard sprint out.
Ben
Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen. I've broken chainstays behind the support while riding and just noticed a small difference in feel until I looked down and saw the chainstay swinging a little. Rode home with no issues. (Granted a flat 2 miles.) Bikes have a lot of redundancy in that area. The left side alone is enough to keep things together. Then you have the hub and right seatstay. So all the OP needs to do to avoid the worst is to be a little attentive. Feel an change? Look down before diving into a corner and doing a hard sprint out.
Ben
Last edited by 79pmooney; 07-02-19 at 12:01 PM.
#10
I would imagine those parts are custom machined by the manufacture. For bonded, one would like a long overlap, but for welded, it really needs to be just larger than the weld, and perhaps heat affected area. Just some back support for the weld and helping with alignment. It could also be hollowed out.
It may well be easier to weld without a huge block behind the weld.
But, I'm guessing closer to 1/4" overlap, but don't want to cut open a frame to see.
You may be right, catastrophic may not be the right word. wheel rubbing on chainstays/seatstays/brakes?
Still, with a known fault, it is something I'd ignore as it could get worse while riding. Also, a quick repair becomes a nightmare repair.
It may well be easier to weld without a huge block behind the weld.
But, I'm guessing closer to 1/4" overlap, but don't want to cut open a frame to see.
You may be right, catastrophic may not be the right word. wheel rubbing on chainstays/seatstays/brakes?
Still, with a known fault, it is something I'd ignore as it could get worse while riding. Also, a quick repair becomes a nightmare repair.
#11
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,344
Likes: 5,461
From: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
I'm guessing that would be a straightforward repair for any builder doing ti. Fietsbob suggests filing a "V". I was thinking a clean hacksaw cut. This stay-end is a bullet plug that inserts into the chainstay. There's plenty of material there. If the crack continues, the dropout would be free to move back (limited by the "spring" of the seatstay) but not move vertically or side-to-side until the bullet has slipped fully out of the chainstay. (I'm guessing there is a 1/2" of plug or more in there.)
Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen. I've broken chainstays behind the support while riding and just noticed a small difference in feel until I looked down and saw the chainstay swinging a little. Rode home with no issues. (Granted a flat 2 miles.) Bikes have a lot of redundancy in that area. The left side alone is enough to keep things together. Then you have the hub and right seatstay. So all the OP needs to do to avoid the worst is to be a little attentive. Feel an change? Look down before diving into a corner and doing a hard sprint out.
Ben
Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen. I've broken chainstays behind the support while riding and just noticed a small difference in feel until I looked down and saw the chainstay swinging a little. Rode home with no issues. (Granted a flat 2 miles.) Bikes have a lot of redundancy in that area. The left side alone is enough to keep things together. Then you have the hub and right seatstay. So all the OP needs to do to avoid the worst is to be a little attentive. Feel an change? Look down before diving into a corner and doing a hard sprint out.
Ben
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#12
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 38
Likes: 2
Thanks to all for the info.
Litespeed has confirmed it is a Litespeed Catalyst frame. They are not interested in fixing it, perhaps because it is rebranded.
It is a 700C 55 cm frame.
I am in Iowa City, Iowa and have not found local anyone who can weld Ti. Cheapest price so far for a ship out repair is $200.
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SOMEONE IN THE MID WEST WHO CAN REPAIR IT?
Jim
Litespeed has confirmed it is a Litespeed Catalyst frame. They are not interested in fixing it, perhaps because it is rebranded.
It is a 700C 55 cm frame.
I am in Iowa City, Iowa and have not found local anyone who can weld Ti. Cheapest price so far for a ship out repair is $200.
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SOMEONE IN THE MID WEST WHO CAN REPAIR IT?
Jim
#13
Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,773
Likes: 720
From: Central Io-way
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er
$200 doesn't seem terrible. Have you tried asking at local bike shops? In central Iowa there is Jeff Bock, a builder. He would probably know someone that does it. There are a great deal of welding shops in Iowa, surely there must be someone locally?
#14
I wonder if you could jump industries. Someone around McDonnell Douglas could do the repairs. St. Louis?
Nonetheless, if you have to ship the frame, the cost won't be significantly different to ship one state over vs shipping across the country.
"Bike Flights" is a service that essentially provides commercial shipping rates to individuals for shipping bike related stuff, and can save a bit on shipping. I think there was a discussion about another competitor, but don't remember who.
I'm finding a few lists of titanium bicycle frame builders online, but finding them listed by state is more problematic.
Nonetheless, if you have to ship the frame, the cost won't be significantly different to ship one state over vs shipping across the country.
"Bike Flights" is a service that essentially provides commercial shipping rates to individuals for shipping bike related stuff, and can save a bit on shipping. I think there was a discussion about another competitor, but don't remember who.
I'm finding a few lists of titanium bicycle frame builders online, but finding them listed by state is more problematic.










