Crankycrank

OK, I know it's near impossible to know for sure what can be done from just a photo but looking for a fix for this broken Reynolds 725 chainstay. Break is between the two pieces of blue tape. Any chance this can maybe be welded reliably by a skilled bike specialist? Would a carbon fiber wrap (by me) be a possibility? Looking to avoid the cost and loss of all the paint with a stay replacement but if that is what is necessary then that's what I'll have done. Any recommended frame repair experts from San Diego to Los Angeles area? Bike is 13 yrs old/31k miles, I weigh 210 all geared up and no crashes other than a few tip overs so I'm a little disappointed this hasn't lasted longer being steel. Oh well. Thanks.

Andrew R Stewart 

Where's the vent hole? Often they are located about where the crack is, on the inside of the CS (out of our sight). One likely contributing factor is the chrome plating. It also sounds like you live on the coats.

Here's a possible scenario. Chroming fluids get inside the CS via the vent hole. Fluids are not fully rinsed out. Over time the remains of the fluids with the salty and humid air accelerate the internal rust.

Another not uncommon possibility is that the drop out was kind of over heated and the stay embrittled a bit. The crack looks to be close to where brass/bronze filler can stop at. This would be where stresses focus, at the boarder of a thick to thin section change.

Even without much environmental salt hydrogen embrittlement is a real issue when chroming steel.

What to do? If you try welding any chrome needs to be removed for the filler to wet out (and burning chrome fumes are really bad to inhale). If there's brass/bronze close enough by to melt when the weld it done that needs to also be kept unmelted as welding doesn't like molten brass/bronze in the bead. The stay's face will want to be cleaned and a shallow "V" ground in it to help the weld penetrate all the way in. Hopefully any corrosion that is up in the CS can be accessed then reduced/treated before any repairs are done. If you have a local welder who works with thin wall alloy steels and also is motivated to do good work on a bike I would try this first. because if it doesn't work out you can always go to plan B, a complete stay replacement.

All this assumes the shinny drop outs are chromed and not polished stainless steel. If they are SS then the weld is pretty much the same. The CS replacement would be slightly more challenging, though not by much. Andy


Assed thought- I suspect the inside of the CS has been beveled some to better clear the chain/cogs during wheel removals/installs. If this relief was done poorly that might also contribute to the crack being where it is.

Crankycrank

Thanks Andrew, great advice. Yes it's chromed and I live 3/4 mile from the ocean but didn't see any visible corrosion peeking inside the broken section, only slight surface rust around the broken edges, no vent hole either. It does look right about where the drop out plug end would be as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the tube was overheated during the build as it didn't appear to be built by one of Bob Jackson's master builders. Oh, and the dropouts are chromed, not stainless.

JohnDThompson 

I don't have great confidence in a weld repair there, but if you have a competent and affordable welder nearby, it's worth a try. Chainstay replacement is one of the easiest frame tube replacements, so if it fails, replacement is still an option.

georges1

Thing is that Reynolds 725 is still available, trying to locate someone who is specialized into frame repairs with Reynolds tubing might be best solution

unterhausen

everybody with a wallet and a torch is qualified to work on Reynolds nowadays.

guy153

Are you sure the stays actually are 725? They're often 525 (the same material, just not heat treated) with 725 being used for the main triangle.

525 is just regular 4130 cromoly so replacing with any quality chainstay the same shape would be absolutely fine.

Andrew R Stewart 

It's a pretty well known history that when Reynolds first released 753 (heat treated 531) they had a significant number of stay cracks, often at the tire/ring clearance indents. The 753 fork blades also had their issues IIRC. Soon Reynolds subbed 531 stays and blades in their 753 sets.

My understanding is that heat treatment often just further narrows the overheating window before loss of strength happens. Andy

Crankycrank

I'm fairly certain it was 725 but Bob Jackson is out of business for now and I just remember when ordering that I had it made with 853 tubing for the main triangle, and they said 725 (or maybe it was 753) was used in the rear triangle but have no documentation to know for sure. I'm not super picky about what is used for the repair but I imagine it's limited due to the different shapes since it's joined at the BB with a lug.

Kontact

Have you considered leaving it alone, rebuilding the bike on something else for now (like an old Fuji or Lemond), and then using your warranty when Bob Jackson re-opens?

All of the bikes I've ever seen that have been ridden to death were steel bikes that broke some part of the right chainstay. 210, 31k miles.

guy153

The rear triangle also sometimes need a bit of aligning and the chainstays dimpling. Heat-treated tubes are not your friend for this. If I wanted to make an 853 frame with "high end" chainstays I'd use 631 not 725.

unterhausen

I doubt there is a warranty. I didn't understand why Dawes put BJ out of their misery, but they did. I would have just taken all the decals and made some Dawes that were labeled BJ. I fail to understand a lot about both of those companies. When I was a teenager, Bob Jackson was a big name in the states. I suspect a lot of people in the U.S. have fond memories of Bob Jackson. How they and Dawes got into the discount framebuiding sphere is beyond me.
I'm sure it would have helped with their hiring problems if they had been charging enough to pay people a living wage. But instead they were losing money on each frame, but making it up on volume.

Kontact

They had a 5 years warranty. If the frame broke inside that period it might be worth taking it up with the new management when they reopen.

Crankycrank

Unfortunately, my warranty has long passed and who knows if the new BJ with new owners will ever open again or offer any help and I'll be picking up the cost of shipping to England both ways. I'm having a hard time even locating a place to do the repair within 100 miles as there is only one specialist near me that I've used for several other minor frame alignment corrections with mixed results. I'm surprised that the area from San Diego to L.A, with a gazillion cyclists doesn't have more shops showing up in my searches. Still looking around at other shops around the country that I can at least ship to but the costs of shipping would make the repair $$$$.

unterhausen

Is there talk of BJ coming back? It was purchased with the idea of keeping it open, and they almost immediately said they couldn't make it work and shut it down. Like I said in my previous post, I have no idea why they didn't just say they were bringing Jackson production in-house, so shutting it down was a surprise to me.

As far as repair in California goes, it's too hard to keep track of who is still building and out of that what small subset still does repairs. Repair is awful and unsatisfying, in my experience. It takes more work than building new and people don't want to pay for it, so only a few people will do it. You may have to expand your horizons and ship the frame.

Crankycrank

BJ starting up again is all a little murky at this point. I can't find much info on it but supposedly there is someone (after the first revival attempt failed) who bought the factory and the name and announced that it was supposed to start up again over a year ago or so with sort of the same type of small factory with "better" quality control but who knows???? Yeah, I can see not too many people with the skills want to do repairs as it won't pay the bills but hopefully I can find somebody even if I have to ship it.

Kontact

If money is the issue, repairing your bike is probably not the way to go. Welding isn't a great solution for the reasons stated, as well as the temps may be too much for the nearby silver braze. And then the paint is going to look terrible. You could wrap it in carbon cloth, but the repair is going to look terrible and may not last given the small diameter tubes.

You can spend real money on the repair, but after the brazing and paint, you could have saved money buying a Masi Gran Criterium for $899 new.

There was a time when torch work was cheap and paint even cheaper. That's long past. The cheapest solution is a similar used frame off ebay. Spend $400 on an older Basso or something and you'll have the good ride and pride of ownership you had before your Jackson broke - for less than any sort of reliable (but ugly) repair.

duanedr 

Can we talk to the administrators and get a "" reaction added. To 'Like' this post seems inadequate.

duanedr 

I might contact the suppliers (Nova, Bike Fab, Framebuilders Supply etc). They would likely know builders in your area. I can't imagine there aren't a few in So Cal.