I bought a 1994 Litespeed Catalyst. Great riding bike.
The issues is that the NDS drop out is not aligned with the DS. I don't know why. It doesn't look like it was a build issue, but I am not sure.
The problem is that when placing the wheel, the tire rubs on the NDS CS.
I have a tool to check the DO alignment with the main triangle and it checks out. No misalignment with the frame.
The wheel is a bit off in dish, with the need to dish it to the NDS, making the situation worse.
When I bought it, everything aligned at the stops, now it doesn't. Looking carefully at the DO I found what appears to be solder.



After removing the solder or material, it looks like the surface was never touched, based on the splatter on the surface. Build quality issue, I would guess.

What is the solution?
Given the only stress would be compression, could I just fill the space with JB Weld and file it down to be in alignment?
I am also concerned about the bond breaking with temperature extremes but at least it would be a temporary solution.

Assuming you are going to use a correctly dished wheel rather than the one you are talking about, why wouldn't you file material out of the other dropout rather than build this one up?


For building up, if not TIG, then drilling a small hole and peening in a soft steel or brass rod would be much more reliable than epoxy.

Do the dropouts center with the seat tube via the string test?

@Kontactt - The wheel is off because it was on the Pinarello where the stays are offset from the center line of the bike. I intend to remedy that problem with a small adjustment.
I have one of those frame alignment tools that span the HS and ST with an adjustment at the end to touch the outside of the DO to check rear triangle alignment. The frame is good in that respect.

I like the suggestion of a hole and peening!

I will consider the filing of the DS too. Visually, I can't decern much of a difference. I has to be really small.
Yes, everything else lines up

I can't say for sure, but overall I have found TI frames - especially the many, many Litespeeds I have owned and worked on - are incredibly well aligned and square.

We don't know why someone put solder on the one dropout, but half the time when people do stuff like that it is because they didn't realize their wheel is out of dish.

I'd strongly recommend trying a different wheel(s), and put it in normal and backwards to observe the centering. If the wheel is in dish, it will look identical by the BB in either orientation.


I can't find any reference to Pinarello ever using asymmetric wheels. Cannondale has done that, but not Pinarello.

BTW, it doesn't take much. One stay being 1mm closer to the BB will offset the tire 5mm to one side.

The Pinarello is out of alignment and the wheel was dished to center the rim between the stays. The same tool was used to check it out and it was about 2-3 mm offset to the DS. Since both the LiteSpeed and the Pinny are 3x9 Racing T, I swapped the wheels to get the Litespeed to have the same rims and set of hubs.
I have a Park TS-2 upgraded and a dishing tool to check the wheels. I will likely fix the dishing on the rear rim and adjust the Pinny rear triangle. Done both before so no really big deal for me.

I am aware of the impact of the DO distance impact to angles.

I will grab another rear rim to validate the issue.

Appreciate your input.

Used a 10 speed rear wheel from the De Rosa and validated that there is a problem.
Trued up the original, which minimized the issue.
Another option is using metal tape to build up the difference. Sticks well and has some small amount of thickness that will be easy to dial in the right amount. Plus it is easy to trim to the thickness of the DO.
Yet another would be to use a silicon carbide Dremel bit on the DS.

I would get the perfectly dished wheel in there without QR and centered, then measure the gap you have on the NDS that you would either have to fill or remove from the DS to get to center.

Or just dish the wheel to match the frame.

From the photo it looks like you have vertical drop outs - please correct me if I am wrong - and ignore the rest of this post :-)

If this were the case making the drop out slot deeper on one side or packing out the other would change the vertical alignment of the wheel and would not affect how it centres between the chainstays.

You would have to alter the sides of the slot which would then be wider than the axle so the wheel could move about whilst riding, unless the skewer is done up real tight.

Might be better to find some suitable sized thin wall tube to fit over the axle where it fits into the drop out and then widen the drop outs such that the wheel fits and centres - it is a one way trip though so have to get it right first time.

Your instinct is correct. Add material to the DO that needs it before removing any material from any DO. I have done this will shim material on my current titanium frame, however for a different reason than yours. Once you know the shim thickness, you know how much to take off the side that needs it.

Why don't you take the frame to a good framebuilder with an Alignment table to verify if the poor bike is actually out of alignment ?

I've seen people who are SURE something is "off" and they use crude methods like the "string test" or the Park gauge that was meant for Varsities and Continentals.

What i find sadly interesting is the slow growth of understanding so many people seem have concerning alignment, and which tool shows what. Dropout alignment tools only show if the DOs are parallel to each other. Not if the dropouts are centered WRT the frame or steerer. The string test (and Park **** or other self made sticks) only show if the dropouts are centered WRT the main frame. All three of these alignment relationships don't show if the stays are of the same lengths, for that a "builders wheel" will be needed. And none of these will show if the main frame is twisted or anything important about the fork. Andy

And if the OP takes it to a frame builder, is that builder going to be able to do anything to better align a Ti frame?

Depends on the framebuilder. I think it would be worth it just to confirm if something was "off", or not.

Seems better to me than first butchering the frame with a file or Dremel. I guess the JB Weld at least could be removed if it didn't help.

It depends what you think you're going to learn of value about it being off, and if it being off is correctable or if you just paid someone to tell you "too bad". You can't align carbon at all and Ti is twice as flexible as steel, so you essentially have to bend it twice as far to get it to take a set. That's a huge problem if the front triangle is twisted.

The OP's problem is that his wheel doesn't go in straight. While the frame could be out of alignment in lots of different ways, only a few of those ways make the wheel go in off center. At this point, the OP checked that the dropouts are centered and aligned with each other, so there is nothing really left than correcting for the "short stay" or whatever happened. And that is pretty much going to be modifying the dropout, unless that produces the wrong result.

Keep in mind that adjustable horizontal dropouts exist largely because getting the dropouts to line up perfectly was so hard that the rider is supposed to do that final portion of the "alignment" themselves.



I'm not against doing real alignments at all - just pointing out that you need to have a realistic idea what you are getting out of it, especially when the bike isn't steel.

Why do I get the feeling that if I had suggested going wild with a Rat-Tail file and / or a Dremel, that Kontact would insist that getting an alignment check first would be prudent ?
Full of hot-air and must be in love with how many posts he "contributes" here.

11-thousand and something versus 184.
Well I'm convinced.

You're on a discussion forum. If you don't like having discussions, start a blog. That way you don't have to be rude when someone appears to disagree with you.

But I didn't disagree with you - I was just talking about the problem.


You'll also note that I offered several solutions other than a file. Or maybe you didn't note anything.

I don't see a problem with JB Weld or similar epoxy fine tuning. Just clean and lightly scuff the back of the dropout in question and put a small amount it there. When it is still "green" put the wheel in and gently adjust until perfectly aligned and let it finish curing.

I would use the steelstik putty rather than the typical resin. You can mold it into position and it won't run out.

My instinct is that the compression from the QR is going to cause the dropout to change shape just enough that the JB won't stay in place. But it is easy and worth trying.

Of course, grease the outside of the axle so the JB doesn't stick to it at all.

The JB would be stuck to the dropout material. A QR won't compress either of those materials. It would be trapped in that space anyway.

I would assume an axle is already greasy enough but a little extra would be good insurance.

Just as steel axles compress from QRs, i would not be shocked that the Ti dropouts might change shape by just enough for the even more rigid epoxy to pop off.

But that problem solves itself.