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Calling the Specialized Experts, Please

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Calling the Specialized Experts, Please

Old 04-08-17, 05:37 AM
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Calling the Specialized Experts, Please

I just purchased this bike from a local LBS. He sold it as an Allez, and my initial research shows it to be a 2006. Here are my questions:

It doesn't have a model name on it, only "Specialized" twice, once on the down tube and once on the top tube. Also, it has black, unpainted carbon seat stays with Zertz inserts. The Frame is Columbus E5 Aerotec. The back chain stays say "Columbus Squadra Corse". I can't find much if any info on this particular frame.

Secondly, does anyone know where I can get a geometry chart? I suspect this is a 58, but it was sold to me as a 56. I can't find anything to confirm my suspicions except photos of other Allez of the same vintage that are touted to be 58. I am basing my suspicions on the head tube length and the space between the downtube and top tube.

Thanks!

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Old 04-08-17, 06:23 AM
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I'm no expert but if you google 2006 Specialized Allez images, one of the top results is a 2006 Specialized Allez Comp triple that pretty much looks like yours.

I'd say you did buy an Allez.
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Old 04-08-17, 06:50 AM
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How do you like the bike? If you're happy with it, then isn't that the best thing?
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Old 04-08-17, 06:54 AM
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What are the measurements on the bike?
Middle bottom bracket to top of top tube along the seat tube
Middle bottom bracket to top fo seat tube mast
Length of top tube, from middle seat tube to middle head tube.
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Old 04-08-17, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NILS14
I'm no expert but if you google 2006 Specialized Allez images, one of the top results is a 2006 Specialized Allez Comp triple that pretty much looks like yours.

I'd say you did buy an Allez.
It appears as if the Specialized Allez Expert had the carbon B-Stays, and rear stay and seatpost zerts. As well as aero tubing.

I can't say why the decals look like they do. Perhaps it was repainted.

The fork is probably not original.
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Old 04-08-17, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
It appears as if the Specialized Allez Expert had the carbon B-Stays, and rear stay and seatpost zerts. As well as aero tubing.

I can't say why the decals look like they do. Perhaps it was repainted.

The fork is probably not original.
I promise you it was not repainted. The frame is immaculate and I did manage to find another photo of one like it, but with almost no information. You are correct about the fork, it isn't original and should have Zertz inserts also. The closest I can find is calling this frame a European version of an Allez Pro. But that doesn't explain the dual Specialized name.

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Old 04-08-17, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by NILS14
I'm no expert but if you google 2006 Specialized Allez images, one of the top results is a 2006 Specialized Allez Comp triple that pretty much looks like yours.

I'd say you did buy an Allez.
I would agree with your assessment. You know, Specialized is a very weird company. They mix and match all kinds of lingo, tubing names (like Columbus SLX Aluminum and E5 Aerotec), all of which seemed interchangeable at their whim.
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Old 04-08-17, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
What are the measurements on the bike?
Middle bottom bracket to top of top tube along the seat tube 51.0 cm
Middle bottom bracket to top fo seat tube mast 54.5 cm or so
Length of top tube, from middle seat tube to middle head tube. 57.0 or close
The head tube is exactly 190 mm long.
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Old 04-08-17, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by practical
How do you like the bike? If you're happy with it, then isn't that the best thing?
Absolutely! But I just picked it up yesterday and comparing it to my son's bike, it's geometry is pretty darned close. He rides a 58. I've messaged the LBS via Text message and he assures me it's 56 based on the previous owner's assertion. I'm just trying to confirm or debunk my thoughts.

I haven't done much riding on it yet but "around the block", so I am real concerned as I am about 5'9 with a 31 inseam. The wrong fit can feel fine for 10 miles or so, but then the wrong geometry starts taking it's toll after that.

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Old 04-08-17, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure
I have done much but "around the block" riding on it yet, but am real concerned as I am about 5'9 with a 31 inseam.
I wouldn't worry about the numbers as long as it feels right. Are the photos of the seat as it is currently adjusted? A little low, but apparently still below the zert.

How much bar drop do you like?

Sloping TTs are difficult to measure sizes, but the length of the TT is often close to the size, and you're close.
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Old 04-08-17, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I wouldn't worry about the numbers as long as it feels right. Are the photos of the seat as it is currently adjusted? A little low, but apparently still below the zert.

How much bar drop do you like?

Sloping TTs are difficult to measure sizes, but the length of the TT is often close to the size, and you're close.
Thanks for the reply, Clifford. I agree 100%. That sloping tube was what caused me not to question the stated size. As you said, without a firm measurement and a chart to bump that off of, it's a crap shoot as to what you really have.

I have adjusted the seat post up since the photo from the LBS. It does appear to be in a relatively good position now and the seat tube seems well within it's intended range.

I will take your suggestion as I believe you are correct about not getting too hung up on sizing. If it feels good, that is. I might have to get a slightly shorter stem by 10mm or so. I just don't want to be sorry later, and would like to confirm the size against some sort of chart.

I really feel most comfortable with my bars level, or slightly below the seat. I'm a little older and my back ain't what it used to be. I have ridden some pretty aggressive geometries for 20-25 miles with no problems though.

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Old 04-08-17, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure
I will take your suggestion as I believe you are correct about not getting too hung up on sizing. If it feels good, that is.
Back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, Stereo Review columnist Julian Hirsh, who had written about consumer sound equipment since the 1940s came to the conclusion that specifications are just a guide; that after a certain precision is reached, unless technical purity is the goal, personal taste holds sway. He wrote if it sounds good to you, it's good.

I will tell you from personal experience as a video and sound producer for over thirty years, I appreciate flat, accurate sound and video reproduction for reference. But it tends to be lifeless and sterile.

I came to realize that so many pre-computer designed speakers, amplifiers, microphones, lenses and films were loved, not for their accuracy, but for their feel. Because before precise measurements were easily attained the design and engineering process contained a lot more eyeballing and ear-balling. That is, does it look good, sound good and feel good. This is the human element which has been squeezed so far out of modern design by computer modeling and specing.

This would also apply to bicycles. To be sure, if one was designing a performance bicycle for competition, then how it felt would be less important than how it performs. But for riding other than competition, how a bike feels to a rider should be more important than how correct it is.

Jay Leno has stated many times that a fifty or sixty year old sports car with a weak engine, and modest handling can be more fun to drive at its stunted limits, than a super car with advanced handling and power.

Similarly, older bicycles and custom built bikes have small quirks and vices that endear them to us and suggest a personality.

Your physical being is unique, your cyling sensibilities are also singular, the culmination of a combination of experiences only you have accumulated.

You are the judge, the arbiter, the final say-so. If it feels right, it is right. If it feels "off", it's not right.

The answer lies within.

Last edited by BobbyG; 04-08-17 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 04-08-17, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG
Back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, Stereo Review columnist Julian Hirsh, who had written about consumer sound equipment since the 1940s came to the conclusion that specifications are just a guide; that after a certain precision is reached, unless technical purity is the goal, personal taste holds sway. He wrote if it sounds good to you, it's good.

I will tell you from personal experience as a video and sound producer for over thirty years, I appreciate flat, accurate sound and video reproduction for reference. But it tends to be lifeless and sterile.

I came to realize that so many pre-computer designed speakers, amplifiers, microphones, lenses and films were loved, not for their accuracy, but for their feel. Because before precise measurements were easily attained the design and engineering process contained a lot more eyeballing and ear-balling. That is, does it look good, sound good and feel good. This is the human element which has been squeezed so far out of modern design by computer modeling and specing.

This would also apply to bicycles. To be sure, if one was designing a performance bicycle for competition, then how it felt would be less important than how it feels. But for riding other than competition, how a bike feels to a rider should be more important than how correct it is.

Jay Leno has stated many times that a fifty or sixty year old sports car with a weak engine, and modest handling can be more fun to drive at its stunted limits, than a super car with advanced handling and power.

Similarly, older bicycles and custom built bikes have small quirks and vices that endear them to us and suggest a personality.

Your physical being is unique, your cyling sensibilities are also singular, the culmination of a combination of experiences only you have accumulated.

You are the judge, the arbiter, the final say-so. If it feels right, it is right. If it feels "off", it's not right.

The answer lies within.
Here, here!
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Old 04-08-17, 10:25 AM
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I would absolutely be concerned about the advertised frame size. Since when is it OK to misrepresent items for sale?

If a shop sold a 58 frame as a 56 then they either lied and therefor committed fraud or they made an honest mistake. Either way, if it is not a 56 then they need to make it right, return the money or get a 56 frame.

Specifications are "only a guide" but it doesn't mean that manufacturers and retailers can make false claims.

If it is a 56 frame and it doesn't fit or it is a 58 frame and it does fit then the OP has a problem with what he thinks his size is.


-Tim-
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Old 04-08-17, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG
... how a bike feels to a rider should be more important than how correct it is...
Bobby G, I liked your whole post. One other aspect of the high-fidelity question is how a system works. My step-father is a pretty bright guy (physics degree, retired Foreign Service Officer, was a Vice Consul) who likes hi-fi. He was telling me about some speaker brand in the 1970s (Advent?) in which the speaker was deliberately made to give a nonlinear response. The inverse of that nonlinearity was incorporated in the amplifier design and the net result was a pretty linear (but aurally pleasing) sound. The point is that individually the speakers and the amps would have "poor" specs, but together they worked great. So within some limits, how the bike feels to the rider is key.

Nice analogy and interesting post. Thx!

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Old 04-08-17, 12:08 PM
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Near the end of product run, companies sometimes build from stock on hand. It also may have been built from a replacement frame. Sometimes they don’t apply all decals to replacements so they can fill multiple needs. All that matters is how it feels underneath you.
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Old 04-08-17, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
I would absolutely be concerned about the advertised frame size. Since when is it OK to misrepresent items for sale?

If a shop sold a 58 frame as a 56 then they either lied and therefor committed fraud or they made an honest mistake. Either way, if it is not a 56 then they need to make it right, return the money or get a 56 frame.

Specifications are "only a guide" but it doesn't mean that manufacturers and retailers can make false claims.

If it is a 56 frame and it doesn't fit or it is a 58 frame and it does fit then the OP has a problem with what he thinks his size is.


-Tim-
Tim, I don't think the LBS would have done it on purpose. He's a stand-up guy running a really good business. I do believe he will make it right if things don't work out. I mean seriously, he would have too much to lose in this day of social media to not do the right thing by me. And I don't believe he would ONLY do the right thing because of possible social media backlash. There is strong competition in town, and it isn't in any LBS's interest to get on customer's bad side.

I see it like this, if it's indeed a 58 and it functions like I need it to, then fine. If not, I'll go over and see Mike and he'll make good on another bike, even if he doesn't have anything to suit me at the moment. I have two other bikes to ride, a Bianchi and a De Rosa. No biggie.
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Old 04-08-17, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
I would absolutely be concerned about the advertised frame size. Since when is it OK to misrepresent items for sale?

If a shop sold a 58 frame as a 56 then they either lied and therefor committed fraud or they made an honest mistake. Either way, if it is not a 56 then they need to make it right, return the money or get a 56 frame.

Specifications are "only a guide" but it doesn't mean that manufacturers and retailers can make false claims.

If it is a 56 frame and it doesn't fit or it is a 58 frame and it does fit then the OP has a problem with what he thinks his size is.


-Tim-
The bike is 10 years old.

Sticker with size is long gone.

Old bikes just measure seat tube.

Sloping top tube makes measuring more ambiguous unless 10 yr spec sheets can be found.

No fraud.
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Old 04-08-17, 05:25 PM
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Twenty five mile ride today and I like the bike. It actually feels good being a little bigger, especially when out of the saddle. I'm sold and it's a keeper.

Thanks for everyone's input. I learned a lot from your comments and relaying your experiences.
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Old 04-08-17, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG
Back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, Stereo Review columnist Julian Hirsh, who had written about consumer sound equipment since the 1940s came to the conclusion that specifications are just a guide; that after a certain precision is reached, unless technical purity is the goal, personal taste holds sway. He wrote if it sounds good to you, it's good.

I will tell you from personal experience as a video and sound producer for over thirty years, I appreciate flat, accurate sound and video reproduction for reference. But it tends to be lifeless and sterile.

I came to realize that so many pre-computer designed speakers, amplifiers, microphones, lenses and films were loved, not for their accuracy, but for their feel. Because before precise measurements were easily attained the design and engineering process contained a lot more eyeballing and ear-balling. That is, does it look good, sound good and feel good. This is the human element which has been squeezed so far out of modern design by computer modeling and specing.

This would also apply to bicycles. To be sure, if one was designing a performance bicycle for competition, then how it felt would be less important than how it performs. But for riding other than competition, how a bike feels to a rider should be more important than how correct it is.

Jay Leno has stated many times that a fifty or sixty year old sports car with a weak engine, and modest handling can be more fun to drive at its stunted limits, than a super car with advanced handling and power.

Similarly, older bicycles and custom built bikes have small quirks and vices that endear them to us and suggest a personality.

Your physical being is unique, your cyling sensibilities are also singular, the culmination of a combination of experiences only you have accumulated.

You are the judge, the arbiter, the final say-so. If it feels right, it is right. If it feels "off", it's not right.

The answer lies within.
Just to add my 2 cents on your analogy, I have had about every consumer grade speaker you can imagine. They've all gone away except my 2-driver Dynaco a25's. They have marvelous range, decent accurate base, and I just keep going back over and over to them. I've also had every beastly amp, including the "legendary" Pioneer SX-1980. meh.... Give me my warm sounding Sansui 5000x, and I'm a happy camper.
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Old 04-08-17, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure
Tim, I don't think the LBS would have done it on purpose. He's a stand-up guy running a really good business. I do believe he will make it right if things don't work out. I mean seriously, he would have too much to lose in this day of social media to not do the right thing by me. And I don't believe he would ONLY do the right thing because of possible social media backlash. There is strong competition in town, and it isn't in any LBS's interest to get on customer's bad side.

I see it like this, if it's indeed a 58 and it functions like I need it to, then fine. If not, I'll go over and see Mike and he'll make good on another bike, even if he doesn't have anything to suit me at the moment. I have two other bikes to ride, a Bianchi and a De Rosa. No biggie.


This is good to hear and I appreciate your saying this.

Personally, I don't stand for dishonesty in business, both as a customer and as a professional services provider. If I felt that the shop was dishonest then I'd call them to the carpet on it. Maybe I'm an idealist but I think we have a moral obligation to the rest of society and saying, "oh well, it worked out OK for me" is a cop out.

I'm glad you are satisfied and happy to hear that the shop is honest. Glad you are enjoying the bike too.


-Tim-
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Old 04-12-17, 07:40 PM
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Per my original post, I found a sale ad for a frame like the one I have. The seller had no idea what he had either.

Anyone have any idea what this frame is, or the history, or the reason for making a frame with no model designation?

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/128...cttofirstphoto
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Old 04-15-17, 08:13 PM
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One last time, I wanted to post a bit of info I found:

2005 Specialized Allez E5 Aerotec Team Build Frame & Fork E5 Alloy & Carbon 52cm
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Old 04-16-17, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by practical
How do you like the bike? If you're happy with it, then isn't that the best thing?
That's what I was thinking too. Are you buying a bicycle to ride or are you buying a list of specifications to haggle about? If you find that the bike is fun to ride, isn't that what you are looking to buy?

Take the size issue for example. There are a variety of ways to measure frame size on diamond frame bikes especially now that most have sloping top tubes. One manufacturer's 56 may turn out to be quite similar to another's 58.
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