Stop Lights or Roundabouts ?
10-24-17 | 07:40 AM
#26
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10-24-17 | 08:59 AM
#27
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I only know of one multi-lane roundabout near here, and I'll re-route a bike ride to avoid it.
If I'm in a car going through there, I prefer driving my 3700# vehicle to my wife's 2100# car. I feel safer going through that circus with more metal around me.
10-24-17 | 09:12 AM
#28
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If, if ... That is if the loops are set up to register with something as light as a bicycle and if the traffic planners, engineers and street crews choose to mark the pavement so we know where to place our bikes. I've done a couple of lifetime's worth of waiting at sensored lights on my bikes.
Ben
10-24-17 | 09:37 AM
#29
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I love roundabouts. I'll admit though, in my area most drivers understand how roundabouts are intended to be used, and drive accordingly.
10-24-17 | 10:33 AM
#30
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If, if ... That is if the loops are set up to register with something as light as a bicycle and if the traffic planners, engineers and street crews choose to mark the pavement so we know where to place our bikes. I've done a couple of lifetime's worth of waiting at sensored lights on my bikes.
Ben
Ben
10-24-17 | 03:32 PM
#31
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If, if ... That is if the loops are set up to register with something as light as a bicycle and if the traffic planners, engineers and street crews choose to mark the pavement so we know where to place our bikes. I've done a couple of lifetime's worth of waiting at sensored lights on my bikes.
Ben
Ben
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10-24-17 | 03:37 PM
#32
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Experienced enough roundy-rounds to justify my preference.
Vote-NO to roundy-rounds!
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10-24-17 | 04:13 PM
#33
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My experience with roundabouts in Minnesota is that the average speed is twice the speed limit, lane mean nothing, vehicles change lanes multiple times, expect traffic coming off the highway to be traveling 50mph. I ride through multiple aroundabouts each day going to and from work. Over the last few years drivers in roundabouts are driving faster and more dangerous with no traffic enforcement. As for using the mup crosswalk, drivers do not yield and if one does the vehicle in the other lane will not. Good luck
10-24-17 | 04:28 PM
#34
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I prefer a properly designed roundabout. But here in Tempe Arizona the roundabout I routinely use is single lane, when the main road entering and exiting is 2 lane. Most Arizonan's don't know how to use a roundabout anyway, poorly designing them makes them worse than excessive lights.
10-24-17 | 04:33 PM
#35
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A path of chuckholes & rows of speed bumps pre-roundabout might enforce drivers to take caution...
well, not really as the holes & buckled roads here don't slow any dangers down.
well, not really as the holes & buckled roads here don't slow any dangers down.
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10-27-17 | 01:58 PM
#37
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When we moved to DC (1960) I heard my mother curse for the first and only time when she got to the inside lane of a multi-lane traffic circle in heavy traffic and didn't have the experience (knowledge+courage) to move over so we went around a few times. Eventually she learned and didn't mind them. I grew up with them so don't mind them.
A Dutch traffic engineer figured out that roads were safer if drivers paid attention more than if they were ordered about, that traffic circles make people pay attention, are safer and faster.
My city added them a few years ago. Dissidents or ignoramuses drove over them, went the wrong way when they wanted to turn left, etc. The traffic column in the paper was full of complaints. But after a few years everyone seems to have figured them out. I haven't seen the stats for whether they've made roads safer, but the complaints have stopped.
A Dutch traffic engineer figured out that roads were safer if drivers paid attention more than if they were ordered about, that traffic circles make people pay attention, are safer and faster.
My city added them a few years ago. Dissidents or ignoramuses drove over them, went the wrong way when they wanted to turn left, etc. The traffic column in the paper was full of complaints. But after a few years everyone seems to have figured them out. I haven't seen the stats for whether they've made roads safer, but the complaints have stopped.
10-28-17 | 06:38 AM
#39
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Ramsey County MN are planning to replace a segment that currently includes 4 stop light junctions at an interchange with 3 multi-lane roundabouts. Many people ride through this segment daily (mostly going between Owasso Blvd and Vadnais Blvd) for commuting and club/team rides.
Today it is far from ideal but generally works well. Those who are comfortable taking the lane can do so and feel relatively safe going through. This segment is posted at 45 mph and the stop lights keep most people somewhat below that though someone going 55-60 when all lights are green isn't unusual. The biggest dangers are people exiting the interstate and making a high speed right on red without stopping.
The planned roundabouts raise a lot of questions about how safe this will be for bicycle riders. There are two options; take the lane through the roundabouts or use a shared-use-path along the east side. Even the traffic engineers who designed this said that people may sometimes have to wait up to 30 minutes to cross safely on the path.
Would you prefer the current road with stop lights? Riding through the roundabouts? Riding on the SUP? Different response for a team/club ride of numerous people?
Current: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0450.../data=!3m1!1e3
Proposed: Analysis and Design of the Rice Street/I-694 Interchange | SEH®
Today it is far from ideal but generally works well. Those who are comfortable taking the lane can do so and feel relatively safe going through. This segment is posted at 45 mph and the stop lights keep most people somewhat below that though someone going 55-60 when all lights are green isn't unusual. The biggest dangers are people exiting the interstate and making a high speed right on red without stopping.
The planned roundabouts raise a lot of questions about how safe this will be for bicycle riders. There are two options; take the lane through the roundabouts or use a shared-use-path along the east side. Even the traffic engineers who designed this said that people may sometimes have to wait up to 30 minutes to cross safely on the path.
Would you prefer the current road with stop lights? Riding through the roundabouts? Riding on the SUP? Different response for a team/club ride of numerous people?
Current: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0450.../data=!3m1!1e3
Proposed: Analysis and Design of the Rice Street/I-694 Interchange | SEH®
10-28-17 | 06:50 AM
#40
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10-28-17 | 08:51 AM
#41
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'If they build all those roundabouts, they may as well station two or three ambulances there for all the accident they will have. Just one wont do.'
Most of the world has figured out how to use traffic circles safely, even New Mexicans; sad to hear that it would exceed the capacity of Nebraskans.
'Thirty minutes to cross the street?'
I've never had to wait this long to cross a street in LA or NYC or DC or Atlanta - things must really be cookin' in Ramsey County.
Most of the world has figured out how to use traffic circles safely, even New Mexicans; sad to hear that it would exceed the capacity of Nebraskans.
'Thirty minutes to cross the street?'
I've never had to wait this long to cross a street in LA or NYC or DC or Atlanta - things must really be cookin' in Ramsey County.
10-28-17 | 09:05 AM
#42
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10-28-17 | 12:33 PM
#43
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Roundabouts are great except that here in the USA few drivers truly understand how to use them, the rules on circling in them, etc. Once the public gets used to them and understands they definitely keep traffic moving better than lights. For cycling though a large one can be a spooky experience in heavy traffic....really spooky.
10-29-17 | 01:01 PM
#45
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[QUOTE=drlogik;19958170]Roundabouts are great except that here in the USA few drivers truly understand how to use them, the rules on circling in them, etc. Once the public gets used to them and understands they'll be replaced by something else that'll be less likely effective & require tonnes more infrastructure reworking....
Better way of putting it...
Better way of putting it...
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10-29-17 | 06:42 PM
#46
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Troul,
Yeah, you're probably right! ROFL!
Roundabouts are great except that here in the USA few drivers truly understand how to use them, the rules on circling in them, etc. Once the public gets used to them and understands they'll be replaced by something else that'll be less likely effective & require tonnes more infrastructure reworking....
Better way of putting it...
Better way of putting it...
10-29-17 | 07:03 PM
#47
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That in itself is not an issue for me (many UK roundabouts are two lanes at the entrances and exits) - what is more concerning is the speed of the traffic on the approach to the roundabout and the speed of the traffic through the roundabout.
The plans pictured look like fairly small diameter roundabouts with non-straight approaches - that should control the speed of traffic.
There are a couple of motorway junctions near me that are effectively a giant roundabout with three lanes on the approach. Cars could easily navigate the roundabout in excess of 40mph. That kind of speed differential is very difficult to deal with safely on a bike - you spend a lot of time in a very exposed position. I try to avoid these wherever possible.
10-31-17 | 06:54 AM
#48
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Multi-lane is typically 2 lanes within the roundabout not just on approach. These are often the same but not always.
The approach speed limit is 45 MPH. They estimate 27-33 MPH within the roundabouts for most vehicles.
I use to ride through Bow roundabout (NE of London) occasionally but after 3 cyclists were killed within a short time I choose to drive instead.
The approach speed limit is 45 MPH. They estimate 27-33 MPH within the roundabouts for most vehicles.
I use to ride through Bow roundabout (NE of London) occasionally but after 3 cyclists were killed within a short time I choose to drive instead.
10-31-17 | 07:02 AM
#49
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The next roundabout will be a problem though as it's the motorway entrance and there is nothing to stop traffic for someone to cross. To cross relatively safely you will have to wait until there are no cars approaching from a quite long distance in numerous directions. You have to cross 3 lanes that are merging together to get to the island so you have to make sure that all 3 lanes are clear. You cannot depend on drivers seeing you because they will be paying attention to other cars merging with them that could harm them and will be trying to get up to speed for the motorway entrance. During parts of each weekday there is a near constant flow of cars on to that entrance ramp.
Last edited by CrankyOne; 10-31-17 at 07:06 AM.