Will Electric Bikes Overtake Standard Bike Sales?
11-07-18, 08:27 PM
#51
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You did not understand my point, probably deliberately so. I stated that the rim vs discs debate has it's pros and cons on both sides from an intellectual perspective, but ultimately sales determine their place in the market. The same will happen with electric vs standard bikes. Electric bike sales are clearly on the increase, sharply so, and there is little doubt that this trend will increase for the foreseeable future. OTOH, standard bike sales have been flat for approximately 3 decades, despite countless 'innovations' or what some would call arbitrary changes, or both.
If these trends continue, there is little question that electric bikes will displace standard bicycles in the marketplace as sales leaders. At least in first world countries. The point is, this is not an academic debate. It will be settled in the marketplace and there are no signs that standard bicycles will increase in sales at any point in the near or distant future.
One factor among several which have and will boost ebike sales is that this segment caters unabashedly to older adults: upright stems, riser bars, suspension saddles, seat posts, forks, stems, fat tires, step thru frames, and of course motors and batteries. They make no pretense that they are replicas of professional racing bikes; ebike races are few and far between after all, bordering on non-existent. As a result, ebikes will surely capture a lion's share of the largely untapped market of elderly people who want to and are willing to exercise but can't ride road racing bikes designed for 25 year olds with a body mass index of 19.
To address one of your other points, yes, ebikes are in fact bicycles. You pedal them, and the harder you pedal, the faster they go. A bicycle by definition is a vehicle with two wheels propelled with pedals. Every ebike fits that definition although some have throttles as an option.
Not to mention, swearing and insulting others is a sign that you cannot debate on the basis of evidence or logic. Please refrain and stick to facts.
If these trends continue, there is little question that electric bikes will displace standard bicycles in the marketplace as sales leaders. At least in first world countries. The point is, this is not an academic debate. It will be settled in the marketplace and there are no signs that standard bicycles will increase in sales at any point in the near or distant future.
One factor among several which have and will boost ebike sales is that this segment caters unabashedly to older adults: upright stems, riser bars, suspension saddles, seat posts, forks, stems, fat tires, step thru frames, and of course motors and batteries. They make no pretense that they are replicas of professional racing bikes; ebike races are few and far between after all, bordering on non-existent. As a result, ebikes will surely capture a lion's share of the largely untapped market of elderly people who want to and are willing to exercise but can't ride road racing bikes designed for 25 year olds with a body mass index of 19.
To address one of your other points, yes, ebikes are in fact bicycles. You pedal them, and the harder you pedal, the faster they go. A bicycle by definition is a vehicle with two wheels propelled with pedals. Every ebike fits that definition although some have throttles as an option.
Not to mention, swearing and insulting others is a sign that you cannot debate on the basis of evidence or logic. Please refrain and stick to facts.
Second, the question whether "e-bike" sales will exceed sales of bicycles is of no interest to me; they probably will, for the reason(s) I gave.
First paragraph in bold: no. A bicycle, I understand it, is a vehicle with two in-line wheels propelled by human power. The 'safety-bicycle' -- the current and accepted paradigm -- suggests such a vehicle, steered through the front wheel, and propelled by a drive (usually chain) to the rear wheel, with power generated by a human being pedalling. It is a human-powered vehicle. E-bikes, whether so-called 'pedal assist' or powered by electric motors with throttles, do not fit that defintion.
Second paragraph in bold: I've been around this place a long time, and a lot longer than you, Mr. or Ms. October 2018. My expletives were intended to indicate emphasis, as anyone with any sense can plainly see, and my arguments were and are perfectly rational. So you know what you can do with your little suggestions re. decorum.
11-07-18, 09:26 PM
#52
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Hard for me to imagine as I haven't seen one is use locally yet. A know a couple who own a pair. They loved them when they bought them a year or so ago. But I'm told the infatuation was short lived and they haven't left the garage for six months or more. But he just retired and she'll probably bail out in a year or so, so perhaps they'll get more use in the future. There was one in the bike rack at work, but it had no battery so apparently arrived under pedal power. Must have been too much work on that beast as the owner locked it to the rack and never returned. After six months or so the building services folks removed it.
Those who want cheap two wheeled transportation ride the 50 cc motorscooters. I see them advertised for as little as $600 new, so I'd expect they're really cheap on the used market. If ebikes came down in price and there were public charging stations, I could see them moving into that niche but at present they don't seem an economically attractive alternative at the moment. The city has installed a few car charging stations and promises more, so the prospect of bike stations is not inconceivable. But there would likely need to be at least some public demand to get that rolling.
In places where large numbers of people commute by bike out of necessity, I can see that many might want to go to e-bikes. But that isn't the case here. Relatively few commute by bike and I think those who do really want to ride and aren't likely to switch. Similarly I can't imagine a lot of the riders who share my country roads would make that change. I expect I'll eventually see a few around, but I don't see the prospect of a large trend here and I think it unlikely e-bikes would replace much conventional cycling.
Those who want cheap two wheeled transportation ride the 50 cc motorscooters. I see them advertised for as little as $600 new, so I'd expect they're really cheap on the used market. If ebikes came down in price and there were public charging stations, I could see them moving into that niche but at present they don't seem an economically attractive alternative at the moment. The city has installed a few car charging stations and promises more, so the prospect of bike stations is not inconceivable. But there would likely need to be at least some public demand to get that rolling.
In places where large numbers of people commute by bike out of necessity, I can see that many might want to go to e-bikes. But that isn't the case here. Relatively few commute by bike and I think those who do really want to ride and aren't likely to switch. Similarly I can't imagine a lot of the riders who share my country roads would make that change. I expect I'll eventually see a few around, but I don't see the prospect of a large trend here and I think it unlikely e-bikes would replace much conventional cycling.
11-07-18, 09:43 PM
#53
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my wife has an ebike and if she does not pedal the bike, the bike will not move. So yes, some are human powered regardless of how you want to spin them. With her ebike she can now go on rides with me and we have more time together. If you don’t like them, great but don’t put them down when you really don’t know much about them. Take one for a spin they are fun.
Last edited by Bmach; 11-07-18 at 09:47 PM.
11-07-18, 10:24 PM
#54
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Hey, if you want a motorized, power-assist pedal bike, more power to you. I'd just as soon ride a legit motorcycle at that point. Much of my enjoyment riding a bicycle is knowing that it's all me providing propulsion.
And yes, power-assist electric pedal bikes are literally just electric mopeds.
Last edited by General Geoff; 11-07-18 at 10:28 PM.
11-08-18, 04:46 AM
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I am sure that all of the 18 mph road warrior mathematicians crunching numbers for hours with their $1k power meters are also not big fans of Ebikes.
Kind of ironic...
11-08-18, 04:49 AM
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E-bikes, whatever spin/special pleading various posters on here (Bike Forums) want to put on them, are not human-powered machines. They are motorized vehicles. In other words, apples and bl__dy oranges.
I have no view one way or the other on "e-bikes" as such. I do not care if someone wishes to ride an "e-bike". Good on them. But doing so is not cycling. Full stop. To pretend otherwise is stupid.
... maybe someday I will want, or will resort to, an e-bike. But if and when I do so, I will not be trying to fool myself into thinking that my riding one has anything whatsoever to do with cycling. It does not.
I have no view one way or the other on "e-bikes" as such. I do not care if someone wishes to ride an "e-bike". Good on them. But doing so is not cycling. Full stop. To pretend otherwise is stupid.
... maybe someday I will want, or will resort to, an e-bike. But if and when I do so, I will not be trying to fool myself into thinking that my riding one has anything whatsoever to do with cycling. It does not.
I LIKE pedalling.
I do use my commutes for exercise.
The way I ride, it's still, by majority, a human-powered vehicle.
The mileage I get between recharges backs that up.
The HRM data I get backs that up.
I hit the same max heart rate, the calorie use by time is the same as on an unassisted bike.
How can that not be cycling?
I do have views on "e-bikes" when it comes to where they can be/should be ridden. They are motorized vehicles. They have no place on a MUP that prohibits the use of motorized vehicles, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright. They have no place in/on bicycle lanes within cities, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright.
Since my commute takes me through suburbs and city centers, this means I am (and mathematically have to be) faster than cutoff between every stop.
For any single section of the commute, there's nothing of importance to other road users that those ebikes would let me do that I wouldn't have been able to do on an unassisted bike.
I still move with the pack, although perhaps closer to the front.
By speed or acceleration, I don't stand out among others willing to ride themselves sweaty.
So why'd someone object to me riding an ebike along other cyclists?
Why do you feel this need to apply more than the "rules of the road" to utility/recreational riding?
What difference is it to you if someone is moving not entirely, or not at all under their own power, as long as you're otherwise comparable in speed, acceleration, braking and handling?
Outside race conditions, behaviour and capacity to cause risks for others is what's important. Type of motive power is not.
11-08-18, 04:59 AM
#58
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... A bicycle, I understand it, is a vehicle with two in-line wheels propelled by human power. The 'safety-bicycle' -- the current and accepted paradigm -- suggests such a vehicle, steered through the front wheel, and propelled by a drive (usually chain) to the rear wheel, with power generated by a human being pedalling. It is a human-powered vehicle. E-bikes, whether so-called 'pedal assist' or powered by electric motors with throttles, do not fit that definition.
What about coasting? Does a bicycle suddenly stop being a bicycle when it's coasting?
During coasting it's not "propelled by..power generated by a human being pedalling".
Sure, maybe it was "..power generated by a human being pedalling" that got it up the hill, or up to the speed that enabled int to coast. But then and there, a coasting bike isn't "propelled by..power generated by a human being pedalling". It's gravity or inertia that is keeping it moving.
11-08-18, 05:22 AM
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First, fair enough re. the analogy, but that doesn't speak to my point: the analogy doesn't hold, and it is pointless.
Second, the question whether "e-bike" sales will exceed sales of bicycles is of no interest to me; they probably will, for the reason(s) I gave.
First paragraph in bold: no. A bicycle, I understand it, is a vehicle with two in-line wheels propelled by human power. The 'safety-bicycle' -- the current and accepted paradigm -- suggests such a vehicle, steered through the front wheel, and propelled by a drive (usually chain) to the rear wheel, with power generated by a human being pedalling. It is a human-powered vehicle. E-bikes, whether so-called 'pedal assist' or powered by electric motors with throttles, do not fit that defintion.
Second paragraph in bold: I've been around this place a long time, and a lot longer than you, Mr. or Ms. October 2018. My expletives were intended to indicate emphasis, as anyone with any sense can plainly see, and my arguments were and are perfectly rational. So you know what you can do with your little suggestions re. decorum.
Second, the question whether "e-bike" sales will exceed sales of bicycles is of no interest to me; they probably will, for the reason(s) I gave.
First paragraph in bold: no. A bicycle, I understand it, is a vehicle with two in-line wheels propelled by human power. The 'safety-bicycle' -- the current and accepted paradigm -- suggests such a vehicle, steered through the front wheel, and propelled by a drive (usually chain) to the rear wheel, with power generated by a human being pedalling. It is a human-powered vehicle. E-bikes, whether so-called 'pedal assist' or powered by electric motors with throttles, do not fit that defintion.
Second paragraph in bold: I've been around this place a long time, and a lot longer than you, Mr. or Ms. October 2018. My expletives were intended to indicate emphasis, as anyone with any sense can plainly see, and my arguments were and are perfectly rational. So you know what you can do with your little suggestions re. decorum.
Good stuff.
About as logical as your ebike rant.
11-08-18, 05:59 AM
#60
Cycleway town
There are some stuck-up bigots on here. I've quickly learnt to work around them, they won't change.
What someone interprets as a bicycle or not does not matter. The law matters. Most E-bikes are legally in the same category and status, as a bicycle. The bikes are specifically engineered to fit the legal criteria.
That is all.
What someone interprets as a bicycle or not does not matter. The law matters. Most E-bikes are legally in the same category and status, as a bicycle. The bikes are specifically engineered to fit the legal criteria.
That is all.
11-08-18, 06:51 AM
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No, it doesn't. The analogy is completely useless. The rim brakes v. hydraulic brakes 'controversy' -- silly -- is within a context set by human-powered machines, i.e. bicycles. That debate has to do with braking; that debate had/has nothing whatsoever to do with motive power.
E-bikes, whatever spin/special pleading various posters on here (Bike Forums) want to put on them, are not human-powered machines. They are motorized vehicles. In other words, apples and bl__dy oranges.
I have no view one way or the other on "e-bikes" as such. I do not care if someone wishes to ride an "e-bike". Good on them. But doing so is not cycling. Full stop. To pretend otherwise is stupid.
I do have views on "e-bikes" when it comes to where they can be/should be ridden. They are motorized vehicles. They have no place on a MUP that prohibits the use of motorized vehicles, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright. They have no place -- and should be strictly banned outright -- on mtb trails that prohibit the use of motorized vehicles. They have no place in/on bicycle lanes within cities, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright.
I do not give a d__n if someone rides an e-bike on the road, in traffic. Good on 'em. I do not give a d__n if someone rides an e-bike, i.e. e-mtb, on trails open to dirt bikes and four-wheelers etc., good on 'em. And so on.
I can see the appeal. Who knows? I am old; maybe someday I will want, or will resort to, an e-bike. But if and when I do so, I will not be trying to fool myself into thinking that my riding one has anything whatsoever to do with cycling. It does not.
And so, the question whether or not "e-bike" sales will exceed the sales of bicycles at some point is of no interest from the point of view of a cyclist, any more than whether or not the sales of motorcycles, or cars, or pick-up trucks, do or will exceed the sales of bicycles. They probably will, given the propensity of us (humans) to look for ways not to exert ourselves in any fashion whatsoever.
E-bikes, whatever spin/special pleading various posters on here (Bike Forums) want to put on them, are not human-powered machines. They are motorized vehicles. In other words, apples and bl__dy oranges.
I have no view one way or the other on "e-bikes" as such. I do not care if someone wishes to ride an "e-bike". Good on them. But doing so is not cycling. Full stop. To pretend otherwise is stupid.
I do have views on "e-bikes" when it comes to where they can be/should be ridden. They are motorized vehicles. They have no place on a MUP that prohibits the use of motorized vehicles, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright. They have no place -- and should be strictly banned outright -- on mtb trails that prohibit the use of motorized vehicles. They have no place in/on bicycle lanes within cities, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright.
I do not give a d__n if someone rides an e-bike on the road, in traffic. Good on 'em. I do not give a d__n if someone rides an e-bike, i.e. e-mtb, on trails open to dirt bikes and four-wheelers etc., good on 'em. And so on.
I can see the appeal. Who knows? I am old; maybe someday I will want, or will resort to, an e-bike. But if and when I do so, I will not be trying to fool myself into thinking that my riding one has anything whatsoever to do with cycling. It does not.
And so, the question whether or not "e-bike" sales will exceed the sales of bicycles at some point is of no interest from the point of view of a cyclist, any more than whether or not the sales of motorcycles, or cars, or pick-up trucks, do or will exceed the sales of bicycles. They probably will, given the propensity of us (humans) to look for ways not to exert ourselves in any fashion whatsoever.
11-08-18, 08:28 AM
#62
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First paragraph in bold: no. A bicycle, I understand it, is a vehicle with two in-line wheels propelled by human power. The 'safety-bicycle' -- the current and accepted paradigm -- suggests such a vehicle, steered through the front wheel, and propelled by a drive (usually chain) to the rear wheel, with power generated by a human being pedalling. It is a human-powered vehicle. E-bikes, whether so-called 'pedal assist' or powered by electric motors with throttles, do not fit that defintion.
Also I own $3.5k road bike and $3k e-bike that is over three times the weight of that roadie, and they both behave quite similarly, with roadie achieving much higher speeds at times. So electric assist makes beach cruiser into racy roadie with a speed limit. I commute 40 miles each day, working in office situated in a high rise building with no shower, and I would rather ride comfy beach cruiser to work with some assist, it’s so much more fun. I still get two hours of decent work out daily, and it’s 100% cycling regardless of your opinion. I have to expend my own energy to propel at least 30% of that bike to work on my own leg power, according to computer read out. Which is the weight of my roadie.
Last edited by boggy; 11-08-18 at 08:47 AM.
11-08-18, 09:55 AM
#64
Senior Member
You've got it all out in the open. People seem to forget that recharging the bikes costs someone more money. Not on motor fuel, which has its own negative, but unless the power is solar generated, it has to be created in ways that is often environmentally negative and expensive. Even solar generation has it costly complicated issues.
This is a little silly. I commute with a conventional bike right now. I put out a modest ~120 W average for 1 hr on a 10 mile commute. (Or about 2 hr and 20 miles roundtrip). If I wanted to do this commute with an e-bike that means I would consume ~240 Wh per day. If you figure there is maybe a ~50% loss in charging and discharging that amount of energy and no pedaling whatsoever, that means I'm pulling around 500 Wh from the wall for each roundtrip commute. If the cost of electricity is somewhere around $0.15 per kWh then whoever is paying for that electricity, it's costing less than one thin dime per day.
As far as pollution goes, I'm not sure what you're comparing to. A small EV might consume around 250 Wh/mile, so 5 kWh for a 20 mile round trip commute, or taking into account charge/discharge losses, 10 kWh pulled from the wall. So a buck or two per commute, and a good bit more energy consumed so, more CO2 emissions.
If it's a fuel efficient car that gets, say, 40 mpg, I figure that car is consuming about 900 Wh per mile (energy density of gasoline is 36.5 kWh per gal divided by 40 mpg. That may or not be a valid way to calculate it, but it should be in the ballpark) compared to 30 Wh per mile for an electric bike with no pedal input from the rider. I don't care how your electricity is generated, the EV is probably better, and the electric bike produces less CO2... by a lot... For the record, we have electric choice in my area and I signed up for 100% wind generation. Trying to do my part.
If you're comparing to a 100% human-powered bike, someone still has to produce 200-300 Wh worth of food energy to power your vehicle. It's not free and there are carbon emissions associated with food production. If you can do it, this is clearly the best way to go, but I don't think anyone has to feel guilty about costing anyone a lot of money or producing a lot of CO2 emissions if they want to ride an e-bike.
Last edited by clengman; 11-08-18 at 10:00 AM.
11-08-18, 11:42 AM
#65
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Will Electric Bikes Overtake Standard Bike Sales?
I can see the allure of, say, a wider, somewhat-knobbier tire in order to handle rougher terrain on my cycling route. Or, lower/wider gearing, if I've got even occasional hills to cope with. Or, an easy assist for times when old injuries or infirmities or age or whatever mean such help would be welcome.
In communities with a population that has one or more of those things ... I can see the idea of an e-bike or other similar assist as being beneficial.
Whether it ends up seeming cost-effective for a majority of people, I'd say the jury's still out.
That said, battery, transmission and electronics technologies are all improving, so it's likely there will be more and more of the things out there. And if such "add-on" costs turn out to be more cost-effective in the end to supply (with per-unit costs going down as volume increases and tech improvements continue), it's probably inevitable.
11-08-18, 12:06 PM
#66
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The same thing has already happened with wheelchairs. I live in an area where there are a lot of wheelchairs due to a number of retirement communities in the area. I have rarely seen a manual chair outside of controlled environments such as airports and hospitals where each chair is being pushed by an attendant. The rest of the community has gone electric, including the wheelchairs that they provide at the supermarket.
In my view, e-bike sales are booming. The question is whether it will lead to a permanent change. I think it would be a good thing if it leads to its stated benefits such as reduction of car use and a viable alternative for recreation and fitness. It would be a bad thing if it ended up like the bike boom of the 1970s. I have two of those bikes. One was free on the curb, the other was 10 bucks. It would be a Pyrrhic victory if e-bikes overtake standard bikes, gathering dust in garages. I think it will take more than the bike technology itself to make this happen.
In my view, e-bike sales are booming. The question is whether it will lead to a permanent change. I think it would be a good thing if it leads to its stated benefits such as reduction of car use and a viable alternative for recreation and fitness. It would be a bad thing if it ended up like the bike boom of the 1970s. I have two of those bikes. One was free on the curb, the other was 10 bucks. It would be a Pyrrhic victory if e-bikes overtake standard bikes, gathering dust in garages. I think it will take more than the bike technology itself to make this happen.
11-08-18, 01:04 PM
#67
Senior Member
I am sorry to break it to you, but regardless of what you think in vast majority of places (including California, where I happened to live) certain pedal assisted electric bikes, specifically with assist cut off at 20MPH, are legally considered to be bicycles and enjoy every single benefit regular bicycles have.
For now.
Give it another 5 years and a dozen fatalities involving e-bikes. Idiots always ruin things.
11-08-18, 01:32 PM
#68
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First paragraph in bold: no. A bicycle, I understand it, is a vehicle with two in-line wheels propelled by human power. The 'safety-bicycle' -- the current and accepted paradigm -- suggests such a vehicle, steered through the front wheel, and propelled by a drive (usually chain) to the rear wheel, with power generated by a human being pedalling. It is a human-powered vehicle. E-bikes, whether so-called 'pedal assist' or powered by electric motors with throttles, do not fit that defintion.
It just means you can't support your claims with facts, and so must resort to swearing and name calling. Or, as your screen name implies, badgering. Your tactic is to get the thread shut down by trolling. Too bad for you it won't work.
Last edited by radroad; 11-08-18 at 01:59 PM.
11-08-18, 01:47 PM
#69
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Would be nice not to have these electric bike discussions in my face in General Cycling and other forums. How about if they are moved to the Electric Bikes forum? I'm not arguing that they don't belong on Bike Forums.
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11-08-18, 01:53 PM
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I have no view one way or the other on "e-bikes" as such. I do not care if someone wishes to ride an "e-bike". Good on them. But doing so is not cycling. Full stop. To pretend otherwise is stupid.
I do have views on "e-bikes" when it comes to where they can be/should be ridden. They are motorized vehicles. They have no place on a MUP that prohibits the use of motorized vehicles, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright. They have no place -- and should be strictly banned outright -- on mtb trails that prohibit the use of motorized vehicles. They have no place in/on bicycle lanes within cities, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright.
.
I do have views on "e-bikes" when it comes to where they can be/should be ridden. They are motorized vehicles. They have no place on a MUP that prohibits the use of motorized vehicles, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright. They have no place -- and should be strictly banned outright -- on mtb trails that prohibit the use of motorized vehicles. They have no place in/on bicycle lanes within cities, and their use thereon should be strictly banned outright.
.
Now, due to the presence of torque and deformable surfaces (and my personal opinion that if you aren't physically competent enough to pedal, you probably don't have the physical ability to be on a MTB trail anyways), I will agree that MTB trails are a different beast. That is a corner case well outside of this conversation, though.
So, don't ride one, but accept the fact that others get different things out of bikes than you? Seems pretty simple.
11-08-18, 02:00 PM
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If one really wanted to see the E-Bike business take off, then adding tariffs on imported E-Bikes and components won't help.
Add a $5 per gallon gas tax, and we'd see E-Bike manufacturing and sales take off like there is no tomorrow.
Add a $5 per gallon gas tax, and we'd see E-Bike manufacturing and sales take off like there is no tomorrow.
11-08-18, 02:00 PM
#72
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We say "eBikes" but there are really two classes that behave and look quite different from each other.
Class 1: pedal only with assist up to 20 mph. I have two of these, the Vanmoof and the Faraday, both quite similar to each other. While they do weigh 40 or so pounds, they handle much better than regular 20 pound bicycles because they aren't devoted to being ultra-light.
Class 3: pedal and throttle up to 30 mph (easily). I have one of these, with the motor attached to the crank, and honestly I think these are basically motorcycles with pedals. While mine can be turned into a Class 1 with on-the-go settings, I think they are somewhat inappropriate for bicycle paths as the temptation to speed on them is overwhelming.
In my opinion, if you're going to get a Class 3, just get an electric motorcycle for really not much more (or a used gas sportbike for not much less).
In addition, I have several roadbikes, mostly city, some urban, a folding one, and of course the roadracing sub 20 pounder, five electric unicycles, one mountain unicycle, an insane Vertugo po-go stick, and a few other personal vehicles.
Class 1 eBikes feel very safe because they have pretty big tires along with much thicker stiffer frames, but if you turn off their electric assistance completely they feel like high-quality beach cruisers. They can be pedaled between 10-12 mph whereas a Class 3 is an 80 pound behemoth that cannot be easily peddled even on level ground. In contrast my road bike is about 12.5 mph average, or about 18 mph in a pace line. With my Class 1 eBikes it's 19-20 mph average wearing wingtips, Class 3 about 24 mph, and my electric unicycles between 12 mph for the smaller ones and 26 mph for the biggest.
One of the big advantages to eBikes is the ability to ride around in normal clothing and still be very comfortable while sitting upright. I've noticed I'm treated FAR more kindly by cars when I'm well-dressed in street clothes, with no helmet, on my eBikes compared to being Lycra-clad with a helmet on my road cycle. And I think that comes from the perception that your "normal" bicyclist (read USA bicyclist) is clogging up roads by riding around for mere pleasure, whereas an eBike makes you more of a commuter, obviously not dressed for the ride but rather for work. Bicyclists, rightly or wrongly, are often seen by drivers as affluent snobs clogging up roads with their pleasure rides.
Finally, consider that eBikes makes riders out of people who do not normally ride; you can lend out your eBike to a visiting friend or family, or a residing spouse, and whereas they don't have a prayer of keeping up with you on a normal bike they can now pace you even while talking.
Class 1: pedal only with assist up to 20 mph. I have two of these, the Vanmoof and the Faraday, both quite similar to each other. While they do weigh 40 or so pounds, they handle much better than regular 20 pound bicycles because they aren't devoted to being ultra-light.
Class 3: pedal and throttle up to 30 mph (easily). I have one of these, with the motor attached to the crank, and honestly I think these are basically motorcycles with pedals. While mine can be turned into a Class 1 with on-the-go settings, I think they are somewhat inappropriate for bicycle paths as the temptation to speed on them is overwhelming.
In my opinion, if you're going to get a Class 3, just get an electric motorcycle for really not much more (or a used gas sportbike for not much less).
In addition, I have several roadbikes, mostly city, some urban, a folding one, and of course the roadracing sub 20 pounder, five electric unicycles, one mountain unicycle, an insane Vertugo po-go stick, and a few other personal vehicles.
Class 1 eBikes feel very safe because they have pretty big tires along with much thicker stiffer frames, but if you turn off their electric assistance completely they feel like high-quality beach cruisers. They can be pedaled between 10-12 mph whereas a Class 3 is an 80 pound behemoth that cannot be easily peddled even on level ground. In contrast my road bike is about 12.5 mph average, or about 18 mph in a pace line. With my Class 1 eBikes it's 19-20 mph average wearing wingtips, Class 3 about 24 mph, and my electric unicycles between 12 mph for the smaller ones and 26 mph for the biggest.
One of the big advantages to eBikes is the ability to ride around in normal clothing and still be very comfortable while sitting upright. I've noticed I'm treated FAR more kindly by cars when I'm well-dressed in street clothes, with no helmet, on my eBikes compared to being Lycra-clad with a helmet on my road cycle. And I think that comes from the perception that your "normal" bicyclist (read USA bicyclist) is clogging up roads by riding around for mere pleasure, whereas an eBike makes you more of a commuter, obviously not dressed for the ride but rather for work. Bicyclists, rightly or wrongly, are often seen by drivers as affluent snobs clogging up roads with their pleasure rides.
Finally, consider that eBikes makes riders out of people who do not normally ride; you can lend out your eBike to a visiting friend or family, or a residing spouse, and whereas they don't have a prayer of keeping up with you on a normal bike they can now pace you even while talking.
11-08-18, 02:17 PM
#74
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E-bikes are just another form of motorized transportation.
People who are avid cyclists are not going to switch as long as they are healthy. The ebikes appeal to a different market: the infirm and wanna-be cyclists/commuters who want out of their cars and traffic but are too lazy/lack the desire to put in the effort of real cycling.
People who are avid cyclists are not going to switch as long as they are healthy. The ebikes appeal to a different market: the infirm and wanna-be cyclists/commuters who want out of their cars and traffic but are too lazy/lack the desire to put in the effort of real cycling.
As an avid cyclist, I'll always have my multiple bicycles. Just as I'll probably always own a car/truck/van, if not a combination.
My question is, Why Can't I have both a bicycle and an e-bike without people calling me / thinking I am lazy, just as I now have a bicycle and a car? Does owning and driving a car make me lazy? No it does not, neither will having an e-bike.
E-bikes appeal to me the same as boats appeal to me, or a kayak, Or a street bike, or a cruiser, or a dual sport motor bike, or snowmobile. I like cars, I like classics (If I owned a classic it wouldn't be my only driver!) I like trucks that can haul a load and pull a trailer, but I also like to have cars that offer good economy.
e-bikes are another form of transportation, but to fully toss them in the motorized category is an injustice.
11-08-18, 02:23 PM
#75
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I don't think so. Road bikes are perfectly legal on bike ways, and are capable of achieving higher speeds than legal e-bikes. Not only I commuted on racing roadie for years and know about this first hand, I can also see roadies pass my bike pretty fast every day, when my speedometer shows just a tad below 20MPH. I can tell some of them are going at around 30MPH. Kinetic energy is directly proportional to the mass of the object and to the square of its velocity, so legal road bikes can already bring more hurt to pedestrians than heavier legal e-bikes, especially when you consider mass of the rider.