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Slime vs patch

Old 01-21-19, 03:14 PM
  #1  
yukiinu
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Slime vs patch

Slime works on round small thorn punctures, and no other larger or irrigular shaped holes. If you try to patch a hole with slime in the tube, the slime will cause the patch glue to loosen and leak. I had a friend say he never had any luck with repairing a tube with glue and patch. I said "a patch works and stops the leak, all you do is follow the directions, put the glue on the tube, let the glue dry then put on the patch" he said "you let the glue dry before you put on the patch!!?" He did not follow the directions on the patch kit and thought the glue had to be wet when you put the patch on, which is wrong and why "he never had any luck with patching a leaking tube". I always carry a patch kit, tire levers, pump, and extra tube and extra pump, extra cables, multi-tool, front/rear spokes, spoke wrench when I ride. I have 9,000 miles loaded touring and 2 years as bike messenger experience. Also, patching a tube will take 15 minutes by using tire levers to remove just a foot long section of the tire bead from one side of the rim and gaining access to tube, patch the tube, (if large hole in tire also patch inside of tire) put tube and tire section back on rim. No need to remove wheel from bike, like I see riders on the side of the road who have completely removed wheel, tire and tube from bike.

Last edited by yukiinu; 01-21-19 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 01-21-19, 03:39 PM
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CliffordK
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I'm not much of a slime fan, but there are some newer latex sealants that should be worth considering. Unfortunately with my first tubeless experiment (Schwalbe One Pro), I hit a rock wrong and tore a chunk out of the tire. And, unfortunately, it would seal with the hole in one place, but would leak out as soon as I started moving.

I do have a slow leak in one tire (with tube) now. Pumped it up twice, but time to hunt it down, probably one of those radial wires, and slime might have been enough for a permanent fix of that.

Schwalbe is experimenting with "self-sealing" tubes.
Schwalbe Protek Max Tubes.


I think they have a combination of slime inside, as well as a unique tube design that is supposed to help hold the holes closed (I've also discovered that using tubes rated for the tire size... say 25/35 tubes in 25mm tire, will help reduce the speed of leaks).

Anyway, I have my nephew testing some of those Protek tubes in goathead territory. I have high hopes for them, although patching could be a problem.
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Old 01-21-19, 04:04 PM
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Don't look for Protek Max under the Schwalbe brand name. Clearly states Michelin on the box. Priced at $15 each on eBay or Amazon which is about 3 times what I have been paying for presta valve tubes from the now defunct Niagara Cycle when you add in the postage for half dozen of them. I wouldn't buy them anyway as the size is 700C X 35-47 which means they would be a lot harder to install than the 28-35 I use for my 700C X 35 tire.
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Old 01-21-19, 07:01 PM
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Yes, right, Michelin.

Like I said, I find I get slower leaks if the small size of the range for tubes is the same as the tire size. So, the 35-47 should be fine in a 35 tire. In fact, I think I put mine in 32mm tires that I sent north.

With careful installation, I don't find large vs small tubes make much difference, as long as one doesn't get too oversized.

The idea is to hopefully reduce the actual number of flats. I suppose it depends a bit on frequency and type of flats that one gets. I try to always be prepared, but it is close to 1000 miles or so per flat (which does go pretty quickly). And, of course, they don't always come evenly distributed.

I'm hoping those Proteks will be good for Goatheads, Blackberry thorns, Radial Tire wires, and small bits of glass.
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Old 01-21-19, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
Also, patching a tube will take 15 minutes by using tire levers to remove just a foot long section of the tire bead from one side of the rim and gaining access to tube, patch the tube, (if large hole in tire also patch inside of tire) put tube and tire section back on rim. No need to remove wheel from bike, like I see riders on the side of the road who have completely removed wheel, tire and tube from bike.
It is quicker to swap the tube, and then one doesn't have to worry about cold, rain, etc. Also, tire manufacturers like to put lots of little ribs in the tubes, making patching more difficult (although, I can usually get a patch to work.

I have pulled a valve clean out of a tube once. Not much patching that, although if I didn't have a spare, I would have tried.
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Old 01-21-19, 08:01 PM
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I've been patching tires since I was about 8 or 9, when my dad taught me how at his service station. Ever since then I've always known that you have to let the glue dry before applying the patch.
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Old 01-21-19, 08:24 PM
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My experience is Slime will seal small circular punctures such as from a tack or a nail, but the tube won't hold full pressure and it leaves a mess inside the tire. It does make the tube difficult to patch, which can be a problem on a longer ride if you've had more than one flat.

I see the merit in only pulling off part of the tire to patch the tube, which makes a good deal of sense for someone who needs to get back on the bike as quickly as possible. I've had the misfortune that there were two places in the tube that needed patching and I missed the second puncture even after removing the tube. So I tend to perform the ritual of removing the tube entirely and either patching it or replacing it as that seems to work best for me.
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Old 01-21-19, 09:05 PM
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why I carry extra tube

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
It is quicker to swap the tube, and then one doesn't have to worry about cold, rain, etc. Also, tire manufacturers like to put lots of little ribs in the tubes, making patching more difficult (although, I can usually get a patch to work.

I have pulled a valve clean out of a tube once. Not much patching that, although if I didn't have a spare, I would have tried.
All these things that intefere with successful patching a leak, is why I carry an extra tube. I prefere not to change a tube when I can patch it. To each his own.
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Old 01-21-19, 09:16 PM
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I went through a rash of failed innertubes until I picked up a Slime brand and haven't had a problem since. When it started getting cold I had to re-air it, but nothing else. And yeah, I pulled a valve clear out of a tube a time or two. And what about tightening those nuts on the valve stem? Never use a wrench!!!!
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Old 01-21-19, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
Slime works on round small thorn punctures, and no other larger or irrigular shaped holes. If you try to patch a hole with slime in the tube, the slime will cause the patch glue to loosen and leak. I had a friend say he never had any luck with repairing a tube with glue and patch. I said "a patch works and stops the leak, all you do is follow the directions, put the glue on the tube, let the glue dry then put on the patch" he said "you let the glue dry before you put on the patch!!?" He did not follow the directions on the patch kit and thought the glue had to be wet when you put the patch on, which is wrong and why "he never had any luck with patching a leaking tube". I always carry a patch kit, tire levers, pump, and extra tube and extra pump, extra cables, multi-tool, front/rear spokes, spoke wrench when I ride. I have 9,000 miles loaded touring and 2 years as bike messenger experience. Also, patching a tube will take 15 minutes by using tire levers to remove just a foot long section of the tire bead from one side of the rim and gaining access to tube, patch the tube, (if large hole in tire also patch inside of tire) put tube and tire section back on rim. No need to remove wheel from bike, like I see riders on the side of the road who have completely removed wheel, tire and tube from bike.
Go for slim and radial tires. Might help a bit!
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Old 01-21-19, 11:10 PM
  #11  
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Just had an experience a few days ago. I had leak while riding. I used the pressurized puncture sealant. It slowed the leak down, but did not stop it. I arrived home, pumped up the tire a bit and left it over night. It lost half the pressure. I removed the tube and found the foam had escaped through the puncture yet, had not sealed it (very small puncture). Patched it, and now wondering, how reliable are sealants?
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Old 01-21-19, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
. Also, patching a tube will take 15 minutes
15 minutes? I take my wheel all the way off and patch a tube in much less time than that so what's the big deal of removing the wheel?

Not to mention you can not always find the hole in a tube if it is still in the tire. Not all punctures are picture perfect thorns.

I set my chain in a certain position to make wheel removal easy. Technique getting the wheel off without touching the derailleur, setting tire label to valve stem to help locate the puncture causing culprit.

All this helps to make a repair efficient and no way would it take me 15 minutes.

I've been riding for 23 consistent years, my share of flats over time and if you can find a small pinhole in a tube without removing the tire from the wheel "every time", you're one lucky MOFO!
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Old 01-22-19, 12:29 AM
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I've never used Slime or equivalent. Always patched. Many of my flats are form radial tire wire and (unless there's a secret I don't know yet) very hard to find with the tire on the rim. I do a quick inspect of the tire first, If I don't find the cause, I pull the tire and tube off, blow up the tube and find the hole, patch, then use the patch to locate the issue in the tire to look at the cause and damage to the tire. I have had second flats many times when I took shortcuts.

Basically what GuessWhoCycling wrote except almost 52 years, Actually close to GuessWhoCycling when you knock the sewup years out.

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Old 01-22-19, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GuessWhoCycling View Post
I've been riding for 23 consistent years, my share of flats over time and if you can find a small pinhole in a tube without removing the tire from the wheel "every time", you're one lucky MOFO!
I used to patch sewups. I could generally find the hole within an inch or so. One really doesn't want to pull out more tire than necessary.

But, with clinchers, sometimes a hole is obvious, sometimes not. I have a slow leak to find. I'll probably end up doing a water bucket as I can't find anything in the tube or tire.
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Old 01-22-19, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
sometimes a hole is obvious, sometimes not.
Exactly! But the poster seems to think it is crazy when he sees a cyclist with the wheel off not knowing the entire situation. Shiiiiii, er Slow leaks happen!
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Old 01-22-19, 07:05 AM
  #16  
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Strip

I'm quite happy with anti-puntuce strips, in my case it is bette than tubeless and slime tubes.
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Old 01-22-19, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
Slime works on round small thorn punctures, and no other larger or irrigular shaped holes. If you try to patch a hole with slime in the tube, the slime will cause the patch glue to loosen and leak.
If you are careful, you can patch a Slime tube. But you have to keep the Slime away from the hole. The fluid in the Slime will interfere with the bonding process if it wets the dry patching cement.

Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
I had a friend say he never had any luck with repairing a tube with glue and patch. I said "a patch works and stops the leak, all you do is follow the directions, put the glue on the tube, let the glue dry then put on the patch" he said "you let the glue dry before you put on the patch!!?" He did not follow the directions on the patch kit and thought the glue had to be wet when you put the patch on, which is wrong and why "he never had any luck with patching a leaking tube".
RTFM. I see this a lot from people who are trying to rush the patch job and then blame the process. Take your time and allow the cement to dry.

Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
I always carry a patch kit, tire levers, pump, and extra tube and extra pump, extra cables, multi-tool, front/rear spokes, spoke wrench when I ride. I have 9,000 miles loaded touring and 2 years as bike messenger experience. Also, patching a tube will take 15 minutes by using tire levers to remove just a foot long section of the tire bead from one side of the rim and gaining access to tube, patch the tube, (if large hole in tire also patch inside of tire) put tube and tire section back on rim. No need to remove wheel from bike, like I see riders on the side of the road who have completely removed wheel, tire and tube from bike.
Your method only works if you can see what is causing the flat. 90% of the time a rider won't know mostly because the object making the puncture doesn't stay in the tire. I've only seen a few flats where that happens. You could remove the tube from the tire with the wheel in place but that limits your ability to manipulate the tube. It's just easier to remove the wheel and tube from the tire. I agree that there is no need to remove the tire, although you should check inside the tire for what caused the puncture so that you don't have to fix it again.

Originally Posted by GuessWhoCycling View Post
15 minutes? I take my wheel all the way off and patch a tube in much less time than that so what's the big deal of removing the wheel?
15 minutes may be a bit long but, honestly, the longer you let the tube sit after applying the cement, the better the bond will be. I've forgotten tubes in my garage for months after applying vulcanizing fluid and still had very successful patch jobs. You basically can't wait too long.

On the other hand, if you are trying to do the Indianapolis 500 pit crew job, you aren't going to get a good bond.
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Old 01-22-19, 09:59 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
15 minutes may be a bit long but, honestly, the longer you let the tube sit after applying the cement, the better the bond will be. I've forgotten tubes in my garage for months after applying vulcanizing fluid and still had very successful patch jobs. You basically can't wait too long.
Well, you don't want the glue to get dusty, either, since that will prohibit making a good bond.
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Old 01-22-19, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
If you are careful, you can patch a Slime tube. But you have to keep the Slime away from the hole. The fluid in the Slime will interfere with the bonding process if it wets the dry patching cement.



RTFM. I see this a lot from people who are trying to rush the patch job and then blame the process. Take your time and allow the cement to dry.



Your method only works if you can see what is causing the flat. 90% of the time a rider won't know mostly because the object making the puncture doesn't stay in the tire. I've only seen a few flats where that happens. You could remove the tube from the tire with the wheel in place but that limits your ability to manipulate the tube. It's just easier to remove the wheel and tube from the tire. I agree that there is no need to remove the tire, although you should check inside the tire for what caused the puncture so that you don't have to fix it again.



15 minutes may be a bit long but, honestly, the longer you let the tube sit after applying the cement, the better the bond will be. I've forgotten tubes in my garage for months after applying vulcanizing fluid and still had very successful patch jobs. You basically can't wait too long.

On the other hand, if you are trying to do the Indianapolis 500 pit crew job, you aren't going to get a good bond.
On the open road, highways etc, the vast majority of my flats have been caused by needle sharp pieces of tire reinforcement wire from shredded truck tires, that have been moved out of traffic lanes and left on the side of the road. These genally are sticking out of my tire and are easy to see. Glass is harder to find, because it burys itself in the tire tread, I gently rub my fingers on the inside of the tire at the puncture to make sure whatever came through the tire and into the tube is no longer there. I get a flat maybe one time in a thousand miles, but I did get 3 flats in one hundred miles because of the shredid truck tires on the shoulder of the interstate that the state didn't clean up, which was all the way across that state, and why I won't cycle in that state and spend money for food and lodging etc again. States should understand that bike tourists spend all day riding 70 miles in their state and spend money for food and a place to sleep, while car drivers at 65 mph spend one hour for the same distance and spend little or nothing in the state. And motel 6 etc., should give discounts to verified cross country bike tourists, who travel short distance (compared to drivers) each day and would use those motels many more times in a thousand miles than a motorist.
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Old 01-22-19, 02:55 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Well, you don't want the glue to get dusty, either, since that will prohibit making a good bond.
It doesn't make that much difference. The dust doesn't bond to the glue and is fairly easy to just blow off.

Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
On the open road, highways etc, the vast majority of my flats have been caused by needle sharp pieces of tire reinforcement wire from shredded truck tires, that have been moved out of traffic lanes and left on the side of the road. These genally are sticking out of my tire and are easy to see.
That has seldom been the case for me and I've had thousands of flats. Of course once in a while I get luck and can see the shard of metal sticking out of the tire or the 16 penny nail going through both sides of the tire or the decking screw sticking out of the tire but those are rare. I even occasionally see the goathead sticking out of the tire. But most of the time, there isn't a clue as to what has caused the flat.

My co-op offers people the stuff needed for flat fixing and I can't recall ever seeing what caused the puncture and I've seen lots of flats there.

Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
Glass is harder to find, because it burys itself in the tire tread, I gently rub my fingers on the inside of the tire at the puncture to make sure whatever came through the tire and into the tube is no longer there.
And how do you "gently rub your fingers on the inside of the tire" without taking a least half the tire off? That' my point. More often than not, you have to remove the tire and tube to find the flat. I suppose you could do it by sections but that takes more time than just removing the wheel.

Originally Posted by yukiinu View Post
I get a flat maybe one time in a thousand miles, but I did get 3 flats in one hundred miles because of the shredid truck tires on the shoulder of the interstate that the state didn't clean up, which was all the way across that state, and why I won't cycle in that state and spend money for food and lodging etc again. States should understand that bike tourists spend all day riding 70 miles in their state and spend money for food and a place to sleep, while car drivers at 65 mph spend one hour for the same distance and spend little or nothing in the state. And motel 6 etc., should give discounts to verified cross country bike tourists, who travel short distance (compared to drivers) each day and would use those motels many more times in a thousand miles than a motorist.
The problem is that there are 1,000,000 cars to each touring bicyclist....probably more like 10,000,000. If touring bicyclist rise to the level of 0.1% of the population of the US, I'd be surprised. That's 324,000 bicycle tourist which is still very high in my opinion. You aren't going to make someone rich by cycle touring through their area.
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Old 01-22-19, 04:59 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
On the other hand, if you are trying to do the Indianapolis 500 pit crew job, you aren't going to get a good bond.
Nobody said anything about a pit crew. It's all about organization. You remove the tube first, find the puncture, clean and apply glue.

While drying, inspect tire, remove debris, remount halfway back onto rim, then finish the patch. Plenty of time to dry while cruising repair speed. Still not even close to 15 minutes. Takes 1 minute to remove wheel and 1 minute to replace wheel.

What is the big deal removing the wheel anyway?

Again, if somebody can find every puncture and pinhole in a tube without removing the wheel, must have some great luck or bionic eyes. I too have had many punctures over 23 years of cycling and never had a problem removing or replacing a wheel. Some I have noticed the puncture without removal but most not.

I guess it pays to not be afraid to remove the wheel. Especially if it takes less time.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:29 PM
  #22  
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I have quick releases on most of my bikes and trailers. It only takes a few seconds to pop off the wheel, and it gives better access for whatever I'm doing.

My last 2 flats...

#1 , heading out and noticed my rear tire was a little spongier than I expected. About 30 miles down the road, I got a pinch flat in the freezing cold, and light rain. No good pull-off. I just parked myself on the edge of the traffic lane and popped off half the tire, and added another tube. Now, I have a slow leak in that tire, and will have to track it down for permanent repairs. No sitting around and trying to patch that one. It wasn't a real busy road, so I didn't actually get passed while I was on the roadside. I assume the culprit is one of those little wires which are nearly invisible, especially after being buried in the tire for 200 miles.

Then, later in the day, I developed a slow leak in the front. I pumped it up and made it to a small park and shelter. Still, about 60 miles from home, and leaking down in about 5 miles, I decided to replace both the tire and tube with a spare I had. Running low on spare tubes, I didn't relish the thought of patching the next one in the rain. Fortunately I made it home.
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Old 01-22-19, 08:06 PM
  #23  
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I like to have these guys staged along my commute.... Just in case.

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Old 01-22-19, 09:10 PM
  #24  
jefnvk
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Wheel off, tire undone, swap tube, verify whatever made the hole is gone, tire back on, wheel back on, tube tossed in pile of likewise punctured tubes to patch when I'm bored and have a few to do some night.

Boom, done, over with without waiting for glue to dry roadside. Unless its the second flat of the day...
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Old 01-22-19, 09:24 PM
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Arthur Peabody
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I've had poor luck with all the sealants I have tried (quit them 10 years ago) and they spoil the patch. I carry a spare tube, swap it in. When I get home I patch the punctured tube and clamp it overnight. Sometimes it's raining, sometimes it's windy, dusty, cold, hot, I'm tired, too impatient to patch with care....
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