To Stretch, or Not To Stretch: that is the question
02-25-19 | 12:45 PM
#101
Senior Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,214
Likes: 1,951
Bikes: Trek 1100, Raleigh R-500, Cannondale R800, Roadmaster gravel/beater mountain bike
Someone in this thread cited dogs and cats stretching as evidence/proof that humans should follow stretching protocols. If anyone has seen a cat or dog stretching for more than 5 to 10 seconds (as opposed to the various recommendations of stretching for 5 minutes/15 minutes/30 minutes), I'd be interested to hear about it.
03-02-19 | 10:20 PM
#103
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 875
Likes: 203
Bikes: custom Cyclery North (Chicago), Schwinn Circuit
Article on stretching. Foam rollers might be better for you.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...aste-time.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...aste-time.html
08-08-19 | 06:37 PM
#106
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 808
Likes: 484
From: Thornhill, Canada
Bikes: MEC Origami Folder, QU-AX Uni, United Motocross BMX, Specialized Langster, Giant OCR, Marin Muirwoods, Globe Roll2, VROD:)
I usually stretch after a long hot thirsty ride.....to the back and bottom of the fridge where the beers are colder.
08-08-19 | 06:52 PM
#107
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 88
Likes: 15
Bikes: Bridgestone Albelt with a second Bridgestone chain drive as a backup
I seriously need to work on my range of motion. Not just to improve my enjoyment of normal activities, if you take a hit, having good range of motion can make the difference between a bruise and a break. I've reached an age where I have to use it or lose it and that goes double for range. However, for me at least it's a completely separate issue from riding. I don't leap on the bike and go flat out with zero warm up but I don't do any stretching either, preferring to go easy until I feel things start to loosen up.
08-08-19 | 06:55 PM
#108
Lifelong wheel gazer ...
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 347
Likes: 36
From: Lower US 48
Bikes: All garage sale finds...
Moderate stretching “awakens” one’s muscles and gets blood flowing. Why would anyone consider that a detriment to better performance?
Last edited by BookFinder; 08-08-19 at 07:38 PM.
08-09-19 | 01:33 AM
#109
Stretching the way a cat or dog does (i.e., the way you do when you yawn, and for no more than 10 seconds or so) isn't likely to be a detriment to performance. More than that can be (by, e.g., damaging connective tissue to a greater or lesser degree), according to current studies.
08-09-19 | 05:16 AM
#110
Tragically Ignorant
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,593
Likes: 9,109
From: New England
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
I seriously need to work on my range of motion. Not just to improve my enjoyment of normal activities, if you take a hit, having good range of motion can make the difference between a bruise and a break. I've reached an age where I have to use it or lose it and that goes double for range. However, for me at least it's a completely separate issue from riding. I don't leap on the bike and go flat out with zero warm up but I don't do any stretching either, preferring to go easy until I feel things start to loosen up.
I'm blessed by needing very little warm up, walking from the car to the gym is usually enough for me, and most of my rides involve a little bit of high-traffic stop and go riding at the beginning.
I think that a lot of this is people think they need some kind of ritual to make it clear they're serious about working out. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
08-09-19 | 06:38 AM
#111
Sophomore Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,530
Likes: 1,060
OK, so I start stretching my hamstrings every day, for ten seconds. Within one week, I can touch my toes, and by the second week, I can rest my palms on the floor.
This is not increasing my "range of motion"? It's simply increasing "joint flexibility"? Aren't we talking about the same thing here? Is there something shameful about stretching that I am not aware of, that I should feel defensive towards? I really don't get the aversion, but different strokes ... I'm just gonna keep stretching because I'd be a cripple by now if I didn't.
This is not increasing my "range of motion"? It's simply increasing "joint flexibility"? Aren't we talking about the same thing here? Is there something shameful about stretching that I am not aware of, that I should feel defensive towards? I really don't get the aversion, but different strokes ... I'm just gonna keep stretching because I'd be a cripple by now if I didn't.
08-09-19 | 06:39 AM
#112
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 219
To Stretch, or Not To Stretch: that is the question
I have posted that warm-up riding is my way to “using (loosening up) the joints.”
I had previously replied last year to this thread on the Road Cycling Forum, “Pre & post warm-up warmdown.” I have tried to “quantify” my answer (distance and intensity):
Do you stretch before, during or after a ride? Is it necessary?
Definitely NOT before…
No and no. If you like doing it, go ahead. I hate it, studies have shown it has nothing to do with cramping, and I think it's a waste of time.
Exactly! People confuse joint flexibility and range of motion. Stretching really doesn't do anything for range of motion, there's no substitute for actually using the joints.
I'm blessed by needing very little warm up, walking from the car to the gym is usually enough for me, and most of my rides involve a little bit of high-traffic stop and go riding at the beginning.
I think that a lot of this is people think they need some kind of ritual to make it clear they're serious about working out. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I'm blessed by needing very little warm up, walking from the car to the gym is usually enough for me, and most of my rides involve a little bit of high-traffic stop and go riding at the beginning.
I think that a lot of this is people think they need some kind of ritual to make it clear they're serious about working out. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
How much if any do you do before and after a ride?
..A ride where you need to shower afterwards...
..A ride where you need to shower afterwards...
For me, that’s a ride of minimum of ten miles, and my commute is a minimum of14 miles. I only warm up, and then ride at cruising pace to the end.
When I first started a training schedule for a century, I noted at what mile I spontaneously realized I felt completely warmed up, i.e. I did not consciously look for it, and it usually occurred at about 6 miles. My basic riding routine is:
When I first started a training schedule for a century, I noted at what mile I spontaneously realized I felt completely warmed up, i.e. I did not consciously look for it, and it usually occurred at about 6 miles. My basic riding routine is:
...last year I developed for myself my"Time-restricted, Personally Ambitious, but Non-competitive CyclistTraining Routine,"…based on ”Relative Perceived Exertion (RPE).”
...The RPE scale ranges from 6 to17, with descriptions of the intensity. Multiply the RPE by 10 is the approximate heart rate. Jim's scale is the equivalent on a 0 to 100 scale, easier to think about…
My basic training is to ride at my RPE of 50% for six miles to warm up, then cruise at an RPE of 60%, and do intervals (on hills) at 70% [described as“hard”; 60% is“somewhat hard," and 80% is “very hard" (lactate threshold;breakpoint between hard but steady breathing and labored with gasping). 50% is "fairly light" (my usual happy-go-lucky pace without thinking about it)].
I try to change gears to maintain a cadence of about 85-90 rpm on flats and rolling hills, and about 60 to 80 rpm on harder hills, to maintain my RPE. Shift up to higher gears as the cadence rises, and shift down as the RPE increases.
...I use the semi-quantitative, standardized, but personally relavant system of Borg’s Relative Perceived Exertion (RPE)
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...ce/borg-scale/
with my own particular adaptation.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...ce/borg-scale/
with my own particular adaptation.
My basic training is to ride at my RPE of 50% for six miles to warm up, then cruise at an RPE of 60%, and do intervals (on hills) at 70% [described as“hard”; 60% is“somewhat hard," and 80% is “very hard" (lactate threshold;breakpoint between hard but steady breathing and labored with gasping). 50% is "fairly light" (my usual happy-go-lucky pace without thinking about it)].
I try to change gears to maintain a cadence of about 85-90 rpm on flats and rolling hills, and about 60 to 80 rpm on harder hills, to maintain my RPE. Shift up to higher gears as the cadence rises, and shift down as the RPE increases.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-09-19 at 07:03 AM.
08-09-19 | 06:55 AM
#113
Tragically Ignorant
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,593
Likes: 9,109
From: New England
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
I never have a sense that my joints are "tight", if anything feels like it's not ready, it's usually my calf muscles or my hamstrings, and that's very transient.
My biceps sometimes feel "reluctant" on the first couple lifts. None of this has to do with flexibility for me, it's more like the muscle isn't quite up to full strength.
08-09-19 | 09:18 AM
#114
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 160
Likes: 31
From: Lompoc, CA
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix SL4 Comp, Trek 930, Nishiki International
Enough already! Anyone ever hear of yoga? Yoga relies heavily on flexibility training exercises — that’s a fancy name for stretching!
Moreover, any and every activity that elongates muscles, joints and connective tissues anywhere in your body is stretching. Everyone stretches.
More specifically, to the point of the OP’s question, anyone fit enough to do vigorous activity benefits from warming up and cooling down their muscles and joints and connective tissues beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity. It’s really just common sense.
There are are lots of professional trainer guides available on how to do this safely, efficiently, quickly and easily.
Or don't do whatever it is you consider specific “stretching.” That won’t necessarily hurt you, but you will absolutely be missing a key piece of a well-rounded workout.
Either way, best of fortune and happy cycling!
Moreover, any and every activity that elongates muscles, joints and connective tissues anywhere in your body is stretching. Everyone stretches.
More specifically, to the point of the OP’s question, anyone fit enough to do vigorous activity benefits from warming up and cooling down their muscles and joints and connective tissues beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity. It’s really just common sense.
There are are lots of professional trainer guides available on how to do this safely, efficiently, quickly and easily.
Or don't do whatever it is you consider specific “stretching.” That won’t necessarily hurt you, but you will absolutely be missing a key piece of a well-rounded workout.
Either way, best of fortune and happy cycling!
08-09-19 | 09:34 AM
#115
Tragically Ignorant
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,593
Likes: 9,109
From: New England
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Enough already! Anyone ever hear of yoga? Yoga relies heavily on flexibility training exercises — that’s a fancy name for stretching!
Moreover, any and every activity that elongates muscles, joints and connective tissues anywhere in your body is stretching. Everyone stretches.
More specifically, to the point of the OP’s question, anyone fit enough to do vigorous activity benefits from warming up and cooling down their muscles and joints and connective tissues beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity. It’s really just common sense.
There are are lots of professional trainer guides available on how to do this safely, efficiently, quickly and easily.
Or don't do whatever it is you consider specific “stretching.” That won’t necessarily hurt you, but you will absolutely be missing a key piece of a well-rounded workout.
Either way, best of fortune and happy cycling!
Moreover, any and every activity that elongates muscles, joints and connective tissues anywhere in your body is stretching. Everyone stretches.
More specifically, to the point of the OP’s question, anyone fit enough to do vigorous activity benefits from warming up and cooling down their muscles and joints and connective tissues beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity. It’s really just common sense.
There are are lots of professional trainer guides available on how to do this safely, efficiently, quickly and easily.
Or don't do whatever it is you consider specific “stretching.” That won’t necessarily hurt you, but you will absolutely be missing a key piece of a well-rounded workout.
Either way, best of fortune and happy cycling!
Saying "It's really just common sense" to people who have tried something and found it useless or worse is pretty silly. There's no evidence that what you assert is true, and frankly, when you put it that way, it's a rather stupid-sounding assertion. Why would you "warm up... beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity"? That's the opposite of warming up--you're asking more of a "cold" muscle or joint than you will when it's warm. "Common sense" in this context just means you believe it, and you've just assumed everyone else believes it too. To me, it just sounds like a recipe for injury.
Your post is a rather passive/aggressive way of telling people you know what's better for them than they do. Frankly, you're just wrong.
08-09-19 | 10:36 AM
#116
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,779
Likes: 743
From: Northwest Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
08-09-19 | 10:42 AM
#117
well hello there
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,491
Likes: 390
From: Point Loma, CA
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
Before, during or after a ride, no.
But I will do some minor stretching at night, just while watching tv.
But I will do some minor stretching at night, just while watching tv.
__________________
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
08-09-19 | 11:06 AM
#118
Tragically Ignorant
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15,593
Likes: 9,109
From: New England
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Last time for this one--if you find that stretching helps you, I'm not going to tell you it doesn't and you should keep doing it if it works for you. Just stop telling me or others that we should do it because it works for you. Muscle elasticity is a genetically determined trait, and it varies like crazy. You don't have any special knowledge that lets you know what should or shouldn't work well for someone else.
BTW, I just figured out what my stretching activity is-it's called standing on the pedals.
BTW, I just figured out what my stretching activity is-it's called standing on the pedals.
08-09-19 | 11:49 AM
#119
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,779
Likes: 743
From: Northwest Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Has anyone tried PNF stretching?
https://humankinetics.me/2018/04/25/...nf-stretching/
https://www.healthline.com/health/fi...pnf-techniques
I had a book on it when it first became mainstream but never really followed through. It would be interesting to look at again.
-Tim-
https://humankinetics.me/2018/04/25/...nf-stretching/
https://www.healthline.com/health/fi...pnf-techniques
I had a book on it when it first became mainstream but never really followed through. It would be interesting to look at again.
-Tim-
08-09-19 | 01:38 PM
#120
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 219
"To Stretch, or Not To Stretch: that is the question."
I have posted that warm-up riding is my way to “using (loosening up) the joints.”
I have posted that warm-up riding is my way to “using (loosening up) the joints.”
…When I first started a training schedule for a century, I noted at what mile I spontaneously realized I felt completely warmed up, i.e. I did not consciously look for it, and it usually occurred at about 6 miles.
My basic riding routine is: to ride at my RPE [Relative Perceived Exertion] of 50% for six miles to warm up, 50% is "fairly light" (my usual happy-go-lucky pace without thinking about it)
My basic riding routine is: to ride at my RPE [Relative Perceived Exertion] of 50% for six miles to warm up, 50% is "fairly light" (my usual happy-go-lucky pace without thinking about it)
Enough already! Anyone ever hear of yoga? Yoga relies heavily on flexibility training exercises — that’s a fancy name for stretching!
Moreover, any and every activity that elongates muscles, joints and connective tissues anywhere in your body is stretching. Everyone stretches.
More specifically, to the point of the OP’s question, anyone fit enough to do vigorous activity benefits from warming up and cooling down their muscles and joints and connective tissues beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity. It’s really just common sense.
There are are lots of professional trainer guides available on how to do this safely, efficiently, quickly and easily.
Or don't do whatever it is you consider specific “stretching.” That won’t necessarily hurt you, but you will absolutely be missing a key piece of a well-rounded workout.
Either way, best of fortune and happy cycling!
Moreover, any and every activity that elongates muscles, joints and connective tissues anywhere in your body is stretching. Everyone stretches.
More specifically, to the point of the OP’s question, anyone fit enough to do vigorous activity benefits from warming up and cooling down their muscles and joints and connective tissues beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity. It’s really just common sense.
There are are lots of professional trainer guides available on how to do this safely, efficiently, quickly and easily.
Or don't do whatever it is you consider specific “stretching.” That won’t necessarily hurt you, but you will absolutely be missing a key piece of a well-rounded workout.
Either way, best of fortune and happy cycling!
Yeah, no. I'm not "missing" anything. In my younger days, I was essentially forced to do stretches, and they never made anything better. I also find them quite unpleasant. As a result, I have no interest in yoga, so I'm not sure what your point is there.
Saying "It's really just common sense" to people who have tried something and found it useless or worse is pretty silly. There's no evidence that what you assert is true, and frankly, when you put it that way, it's a rather stupid-sounding assertion.
Why would you "warm up... beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity"? That's the opposite of warming up--you're asking more of a "cold" muscle or joint than you will when it's warm.
"Common sense" in this context just means you believe it, and you've just assumed everyone else believes it too. To me, it just sounds like a recipe for injury.
Your post is a rather passive/aggressive way of telling people you know what's better for them than they do. Frankly, you're just wrong.
Saying "It's really just common sense" to people who have tried something and found it useless or worse is pretty silly. There's no evidence that what you assert is true, and frankly, when you put it that way, it's a rather stupid-sounding assertion.
Why would you "warm up... beyond the thresholds that will be used during the most strenuous periods of activity"? That's the opposite of warming up--you're asking more of a "cold" muscle or joint than you will when it's warm.
"Common sense" in this context just means you believe it, and you've just assumed everyone else believes it too. To me, it just sounds like a recipe for injury.
Your post is a rather passive/aggressive way of telling people you know what's better for them than they do. Frankly, you're just wrong.
I have been doing yoga almost daily for the past two years (2007-2009) along with year round cycling. In addition to balance and core strength, I find yoga helps with breathing and what I would describe as "energy flow." IMO, cycling improves my yoga more than the reverse.
This has been a good cycling summer and I've attained the most extremes in some postures, even more than when I did the same yoga over thirty years ago.
This has been a good cycling summer and I've attained the most extremes in some postures, even more than when I did the same yoga over thirty years ago.
My understanding of overall physical fitness is that the four components are endurance, strength, flexibility, and balance. For me yoga incorporates flexibility and balance. For various periods of time I did yoga daily, and about six years ago I even could stand on my head.
My practice waned, including after a serious bike accident with a fractured sacrum and I didn’t take it up again until last month (2016).
I have found over the years it to be very effective for flexibility and balance though I don’t think it necessarily helps my cycling (endurance), but I think my cycling helps my yoga.
In my current practice, I do seem to be limited by my deformed sacrum.
My practice waned, including after a serious bike accident with a fractured sacrum and I didn’t take it up again until last month (2016).
I have found over the years it to be very effective for flexibility and balance though I don’t think it necessarily helps my cycling (endurance), but I think my cycling helps my yoga.
In my current practice, I do seem to be limited by my deformed sacrum.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-10-19 at 04:55 AM.
08-10-19 | 10:00 AM
#121
Cycleway town
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 169
From: Milton Keynes, England
Bikes: 2.6kw GT LTS e-tandem, 250w Voodoo, 250w solar recumbent trike, 3-speed shopper, Merlin ol/skl mtb, 80cc Ellswick
08-10-19 | 10:43 AM
#122
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 96
Likes: 23
From: Los Angeles, California
Bikes: 2021 Electra Townie 7D equipped; 2019 Monterey 26" Seven Speed Trike
Sometimes... I have old injuries and artificial hip. Physical the****** recommend I stretch, so at home I do when I remember. I also stretch in the gym when the stretching area is open - they have bars 'n mats optimized for stretching. But whether it is riding a bike or lifting weights, I can't tell the difference between days I stretch and days I don't...
08-10-19 | 04:50 PM
#124
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,114
Likes: 561
From: South Carolina Upstate
Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850
lots of opinions, lots of links, meh
if you feel you need it, do it. If not don't do it. Decide for yourself. Stretch and ride, don't stretch and ride. Stretch after or not and note to yourself what works best
did the soldiers that stormed the beaches of Normandy stretch? I don't know but I doubt it. There are different ways to warm up
if you feel you need it, do it. If not don't do it. Decide for yourself. Stretch and ride, don't stretch and ride. Stretch after or not and note to yourself what works best
did the soldiers that stormed the beaches of Normandy stretch? I don't know but I doubt it. There are different ways to warm up
08-10-19 | 06:09 PM
#125
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,779
Likes: 743
From: Northwest Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
lots of opinions, lots of links, meh
if you feel you need it, do it. If not don't do it. Decide for yourself. Stretch and ride, don't stretch and ride. Stretch after or not and note to yourself what works best
did the soldiers that stormed the beaches of Normandy stretch? I don't know but I doubt it. There are different ways to warm up
if you feel you need it, do it. If not don't do it. Decide for yourself. Stretch and ride, don't stretch and ride. Stretch after or not and note to yourself what works best
did the soldiers that stormed the beaches of Normandy stretch? I don't know but I doubt it. There are different ways to warm up
Stretching and warming up are not the same thing.
Otherwise, I agree.
-Tim-