tomato coupe

No, it applies everywhere in the U.S. -- it's a federal regulation.

msu2001la

I purchased a new high end CX bike from an LBS 3 years ago and it did not come with any reflectors on it. They didn't provide these or say anything about it at all. I didn't even really think about it until a few months later when one of these threads came up on the internet. A year later I bought a kids bike from them and it came with all the reflectors on it.

I'm guessing some shops are just making assumptions that buyers of certain types of bikes are just going to take them off anyways.

cyccommute 

Any bike shop that isn’t installing reflectors on a bike it sells is violating the law. More importantly, the shop is opening itself to lawsuits if they don’t install the reflectors. Frankly, they would be on sounder footing if they ground off the lawyer lips…to bring this discussion back on track.

Maelochs

I can see it now .... a sign in the window of the LBS, "Quality Lip Grinding---Ask Inside."

msu2001la

Concur - I had a 1996 Rock Shox Indy fork that had lips on it. This was several years before disc brakes started hitting the market.

On the topic of reflectors (not to belabor the point…) I’m curious about how shops are supposed to deal with installing clipless pedals in new bikes? Seems like CPSC rules requires reflectors on pedals, but most clipless pedals don’t have them. When I bought my last bike I also bought new pedals - the shop installed them for me. The first time I saw the bike (and the point where I actually paid and was handed a receipt), the bike rolled out the door with no reflectors, no dork disc (is this really a CPSC requirement?) and the shop had installed the aftermarket pedals and two bottle cages. Same with aftermarket wheels - my Zipp wheels didn’t ship with reflectors stalled and I don’t recall any in the boxes. I assume many shops are swapping new aftermarket wheels onto customers new bikes at the time of sale and not adding reflectors to them.

Is the law different when customers buy additional/different parts and ask a shop install them? I’m also curious about custom build bikes. If a shop builds up a bike from frameset/groupset are they still required to add reflectors before it rolls out?

The shop I purchased from has been in business for decades and is a dealer for several big name brands. I can’t imagine they’re just rolling the dice on lawsuits to avoid installing a few dollars worth of reflectors, but maybe?

cyccommute 

There are reflector sets for SPD pedals like these. I’ve not seen anything that would work with road clipless pedals which may be partly why pedals are often sold separately. The dork disc isn’t a CPSC requirement just as lawyer lips aren’t. Although I can’t find it right now, the CPSC has published statements against lawyer lips. They, correctly, feel that the lawyer lips encourage people to use quick releases skewer incorrectly.

The CSPC regulations only apply to whole bikes. They don’t apply to aftermarket parts. I suppose a bike built from parts by a shop could fall into the “aftermarket” exception but a shop that doesn’t include the reflectors is opening itself up to lawsuits.

They might have or they might not know the regulations. On the other hand, people might just be misremembering removing the reflectors themselves. I volunteer referbing bikes at a co-op and we put reflectors on every single bike that goes out the door. Shops I’ve been to have reflectors on their bikes as well. I’ve personally removed many reflectors from bicycles over the years.

I will say that although I hate lawyer lips with a burning passion and agree with the CPSC about their interfering with the proper use of a quick release, I’ve never ground one off. If the bike passes from my hands to someone else, I don’t want to be on the hook if some lawyer notices that it doesn’t have the lips and comes for my personal belongings. Been sued once. Don’t want to have it happen again.

wolfchild

Reflectors are not a legal requirement on a bicycle. Even if some LBS choose to put them on, majority of people will remove them especially on higher end bikes...Lights are a legal requirement when riding during dark hours but reflectors are optional. I've heard of cyclists being ticketed for not having lights, but I never heard of cyclists being ticketed for not having reflectors.

elcruxio

Doesn't that sort of depend on your local laws?

smd4

What is it about “point of sale” that is confusing for you? We’re here to help.

Rick

I live in California and state law requires some reflectors as most of the other states. The rear reflector. pedal reflectors and wheel reflectors. They state if your tires have a reflective surface on the side this meets the requirement. The cycling shoes I have purchased have reflective surfaces on the back and sides. So this should Meet the pedal reflector requirement. My last new bicycle was purchased in Mar 2014. I was at the shop when they opened. I didn't allow the CPSC reflectors. The Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires had reflectors. the Edelux headlight came with a reflector. The pedals had them. I took the bicycle home and ree did the brakes. I contacted Peter White and ordered a taillight and had him explain how to wire the Schmidt Son SL dino hub. The one and only shop mechanic stated he didn't know about dino lights. I lived in an apt. at the time and just expected better service from a bicycle shop.

Kapusta

While it is true (as I pointed out earlier) that QR Disc forks and frames have been around a while, the timeline you are giving is a little off.

While the first disc brakes for mtbs were produced in the 80s, they were a tiny niche thing that most people never even saw once in the wild. It was not until the mid-late 90s when Hayes came out with their first disc brake that you could even find a non-custom frame/fork with mounts. Until than it was basically all rim brakes.

But disc caught on fast and by the early-mid 2000’s they were the standard on any mid-high end bike.

TA, have actually been around since before 2000. Not sure when, but I remember them existing around 2000, and by the early 2000s there were many 20mm TA forks available, But it took a lot longer for TA to take over than it did for disc. And it took longer for rear wheels to go TA than forks.

My 2004 RS Pike is 20mm TA, my 2007 Reba is QR. both disc.

But the point that there have long been QR disc forks and frames still stands.

cyccommute 

The Code of Federal Regulations would beg to differ. All bikes (with some limited exceptions) are required to have reflectors at point of sale.

That’s not true for all states. Colorado, for example, say the following about reflectors and lights

Note that our state law says that a white headlight is required. A red rear reflector is required but a rear light is optional. Also note that stupidly enough, you can run a side light in lieu of a reflector. I don’t agree with the requirement for a rear reflector and prefer active lighting, but that is the law.

To pick a couple of states at random:

New Jersey

That’s better than the Colorado regulation.

Georgia

Kansas

Reflector and light as well as an amber light on the person. Good luck finding an amber light.

wolfchild

If reflectors are a legal requirement as you say, then why aren't cyclists being fined and ticketed for not having any reflectors on their bikes ?

Rick

​​​​​​​I believe bicycles are not at the top of the list when it comes to enforcement of the traffic laws.

Maelochs

That is not an honest question. You Know why ... cops don't want to mess with or be tied up by petty crap.

Where the law comes into play-0---and you know this too---is in the case of an accident, when liability is assigned. if you are riding ninja and get slammed by a car .... oops, no reflector ... no insurance coverage. Die poor and crippled. Have reflectors, get the driver's insurance to pay all your bills.

And you know this.

We cannot have a decent conversation if we are always playing "Gotcha" or always playing dumb or just not doing our best.

You knew better but pretended otherwise ... it just makes you look deliberately and obnoxiously ignorant.

The laws are there to be researched. if you wanted to know the facts, you didn't have to come here being obnoxious and confrontational ... you could have googled the laws, just like @cyccommute did. But you didn't want to learn ... you wanted to bicker childishly,. You didn't care about fact, youo wanted to fight.

Well, .... you lose.

Maybe next time ... we try to pretend we actually respect each other?

smd4

I know why I‘ve never been ticketed: I don’t ride at night.

cyccommute 

Why aren’t people being ticketed for driving 10, 15, 20 mph over speed limits? It’s not a priority. However, it is in your own best interests to follow the law. If you happen to be involved in an accident that isn’t your fault, a clever lawyer can use your lack of following the law to call into question your culpability. All of a sudden you are the responsible party that is at fault for the accident and you won’t get damages.

I don’t like Colorado’s law with regard to reflectors. I think reflectors are about the dumbest thing required on bicycles. But I also understand that I need to do some CYAing and thus run lights with reflectors that are integrated into the light or I put a rear red reflector on the bike somewhere. This study by the CSPC reaches the conclusion that reflectors…especially side reflectors…are mostly useless and that active lighting is far better but they decided to stick with the reflectors. Some state laws have changed since that study to require rear lights but not every state has done that.

2old

I didn't read the entire thread, so don't know if this was mentioned, but Rad Power, an e-bike company, has a class action lawsuit in which an individual employed his front brake suddenly to avoid an automobile and the front wheel disengaged throwing him to the pavement causing injury. As an aside I've noticed that my front wheel was loose twice in the last couple of years, but thought off road brush disengaged the skewer. Fortunately the "lawyer lips" retained the wheel.

Rick

I have been riding my current bicycle for near 10 years and have never had a loose wheel. I suggest using a quality Camlock style QR and increase the tightening pressure.

Maelochs

Some folks figured that if you aim the front handle up and back along and behind the fork it is very hard for anything to grab it .... I do the same with the rear .... I have no desire to have a branch open the skewer and not find out until I crest a hill and start bombing down the other side ......

With the skewer open, at speed I think the lateral movement might be enough to wreck a rider even if the wheel didn't actually come off. Gravity might keep it from falling out (weight of bike and rider) but the thing could wobble as much as it wanted ......

smd4

I suspect this has happened in the history of the quick release about a 1,000 times less frequently than a Shimano crankset delaminates.

wolfchild

It's a good thing you didn't take advice from some bikeforums experts who advocate grinding the lawyer tabs off because they say that those lawyer tabs are annoying and serve no useful purpose.

smd4

They are annoying, unless you’re not good at using quick releases, or don’t recognize that they’ve loosened before even swinging a leg over the frame.

wolfchild

I find seatbelts in my vehicle to be very annoying too, if it wasn't for that stupid law I would just remove them.

smd4

And…lawyer lips aren’t legally required. Get it?

(That’s a rhetorical question.)