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Disc brakes are great!

Old 02-14-24, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...is that an argument for discs on bikes as the universal standard going forward ? Because that seems to be where we are at.
Originally Posted by Koyote
- to try to understand why a handful of posters keep insisting that disc brakes are "unnecessary" just because they don't need/want/like them.

(For the record, I've never tried to convince anyone to "get on board" with discs. Not even a little bit.)
...why would you need to ? There's an entire bicycle manufacturing and sales industry that has already made this decision. OTOH, the jury is still out on why we needed another thread on an "argument" that was long ago decided by the people who make and sell bikes.

If you really believe what you just wrote, "just because they don't need/want/like them," you're not looking for "understanding". You really are the "change my mind" meme guy.

​​​​​​​"Change My Mind" is a regular segment conducted by Crowder in which he sits at a table with a sign including the phrase "Change My Mind" and invites people walking by, often students at a university campus, to change his mind on a controversial subject. A photograph of Crowder seated behind a sign in February 2018 reading "Male Privilege is a Myth | Change My Mind" outside the Texas Christian University campus became an Internet meme.[27][28][29] Variations of the meme often feature humorously controversial statements in place of "Male Privilege is a Myth", such as "Pineapple goes on pizza | Change My Mind"

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Old 02-14-24, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
"I came here for an argument!"

"Oh! Oh, I'm sorry! This is abuse."
Or..... is it contradiction??
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Old 02-14-24, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Again, I am missing nothing. I'm just not addressing them. Just like I don't address 20" bikes and coaster brakes, mountain bikes with V-brakes, or penny farthings with no brakes. Why do you keep missing this?
Why would someone not interested in disc brakes read and post on a disc brake thread?
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Old 02-14-24, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Why would someone not interested in disc brakes read and post on a disc brake thread?
For the same reason you post on an American football thread?
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Old 02-14-24, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Why would someone not interested in disc brakes read and post on a disc brake thread?
Sheer cussedness?
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Old 02-14-24, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I'm always amused by people who respond to "disc brakes are better" with "I've never had any problems with rim brakes", as if that makes them the pinnacle of bicycle braking technology. A couple years ago, I got a couple old (early 80s) bikes, with old single-pivot brakes. I found they were A LOT less capable than modern dual pivots, and I posted a thread on C&V about it. Of course I got a lot of useful suggestions, like getting some modern pads. But then there were the folks who said they had "never had a problem" with those old brakes.
I guess you don't understand the actual point being made: "rim brakes work fine". It does not mean that the opinion is that they are the pinnacle of braking technology. IT simply means they work fine and therefore whatever advantage discs have is not needed by that person.

I imagine lots of people who've never experienced something better than what they have, have "never had a problem" with whatever it is. In cars, most people "never had a problem" with drum brakes all around because most people weren't pushing them to their limits. In fact they might not even notice the improvement disc brakes in cars made because the car stopped regardless.

Anyhow, my point is that, in my experience with bikes with a variety of brake types, discs > dual pivots > late '80s single pivots > early '80s single pivots. That said, I ride bikes with each of those braking systems and have a great time doing so, and isn't that the point? If it isn't, why the hell would we even ride?
And I think that the vast, vast, vast majority of riders from casual neighborhood riders to high mileage enthusiasts are perfectly well served by rim brakes. Note that this is an opinion, not intended to be stated as a fact contrary to some in this thread. Just so this comment isn't also misunderstood: I am not saying that disc brakes are not better for some cyclists and some circumstances, I just think that it's not many in the overall scheme of things.
I have 6 bikes, two with discs four with rim (road and mountain). They all work as well as I ever need them to work. I have no performance or functional need for the advantages of discs, but they're pretty much all that is available nowadays. They are fine, no complaints.
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Old 02-14-24, 04:08 PM
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Today I was going to bring a bicycle wheel to class to demonstrate angular momentum, but the University liability attorneys said I can't demonstrate angular momentum with a wheel that has a disc rotor affixed to the hub, because it could create a mass casualty event.

This is why the USA is slipping further in its world education ranking.
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Old 02-14-24, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
I guess you don't understand the actual point being made: "rim brakes work fine". It does not mean that the opinion is that they are the pinnacle of braking technology. IT simply means they work fine and therefore whatever advantage discs have is not needed by that person.
Need? What is this "Need" ****? We're talking about bikes, for cripes sake!


And the vast, vast, vast majority of riders from casual neighborhood riders to high mileage enthusiasts are perfectly well served by rim brakes. Just so this comment isn't also misunderstood: I am not saying that disc brakes are not better for some cyclists and some circumstances, I just think that it's not many in the overall scheme of things.
I have 6 bikes, two with discs four with rim (road and mountain). They all work as well as I ever need them to work. I have no performance or functional need for the advantages of discs, but they're pretty much all that is available nowadays. They are fine, no complaints.
See above.
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Old 02-14-24, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Today I was going to bring a bicycle wheel to class to demonstrate angular momentum, but the University liability attorneys said I can't demonstrate angular momentum with a wheel that has a disc rotor affixed to the hub, because it could create a mass casualty event.

This is why the USA is slipping further in its world education ranking.
Why not discuss gravity? Then you could have a Mass Causality event.

You know, because gravity is a mass-related phenomenon?

I'll see myself out.
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Old 02-14-24, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Its better modulation when compared to other setups they have used.
Seems pretty easy to define. You wont like how it is defined or used though because it is feel driven and not data driven. Subjectivity seems to be your kryptonite.
I get what cyccommute means. Or, at least, I'm guessing he has a pragmatic attitude toward such things, same as I do. For me, most things are either good enough or not.

Like electric guitar pickups: people on forums endlessly debate the merits of one boutique pickup versus another versus the original patent pending Gibson pickup they're both based on - for me, pickups either work or they don't.
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Old 02-14-24, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Why would someone not interested in disc brakes read and post on a disc brake thread?
...because that was the original invitation, as stated in the OP ? I'm guessing wildly here.


Originally Posted by Koyote

If any of you naysayers think my reasons for running disc brakes (on two of my five bikes) are stupid, ill-informed, whatever, let's hear it right here. I'm eager to process your logic.

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Old 02-14-24, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Need? What is this "Need" ****? We're talking about bikes, for cripes sake!
...in this sense, disc brakes are a lot like stinkin' badges.
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Old 02-14-24, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...in this sense, disc brakes are a lot like stinkin' badges.
Some fixie riders will say that about ANY brakes.
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Old 02-14-24, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
My rim brakes feel the same as the disc brakes I've ridden. I only ride when it's dry out. So what, exactly, am I missing?
Scotland!

The Jacobite
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Old 02-14-24, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Sheer cussedness?
Now Gene, I thought you were better than name calling!
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Old 02-14-24, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
Scotland!

The Jacobite
It’s a gorgeous train and scenery, but beyond that the relevance is lost on me.

BTW, steam locomotives use tire brakes.
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Old 02-14-24, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
It’s a gorgeous train and scenery, but beyond that the relevance is lost on me.

BTW, steam locomotives use tire brakes.
Would you mind elaborating? Just did a quick search but was quickly drowning in references to "4-8-4 lead truck brakes" and "wheel coolers." Way out of my depth.
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Old 02-14-24, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Would you mind elaborating? Just did a quick search but was quickly drowning in references to "4-8-4 lead truck brakes" and "wheel coolers." Way out of my depth.
Steam locomotive drive wheels have replaceable tires. Sure, they’re made of steel, but they’re separate from the wheel (or “wheel center”). Instead of using tire levers to install them, they use fire to make them expand, install them, and let them cool onto the wheel for a shrink fit. The cast iron brake shoes are forced against the tires to effect braking. And yes, the heat generated from braking down long grades has been known to heat the tires enough to loosen them from the wheels—probably where you saw the wheel cooler reference.

Last edited by smd4; 02-14-24 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 02-14-24, 07:00 PM
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I just like using compressed air to blow off the disc brake dust.
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Old 02-14-24, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
It’s a gorgeous train and scenery, but beyond that the relevance is lost on me.

BTW, steam locomotives use tire brakes.
If you don't ride in the rain then you don't ride in Scotland. And if you don't ride in Scotland you miss beautiful scenery and wonderful people...

On the subject of brakes:

I have never heard of a TGV becoming a runaway train (is it because they use disc brakes?)



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Old 02-14-24, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Now Gene, I thought you were better than name calling!
You must not know me very well, then.
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Old 02-14-24, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
If you don't ride in the rain then you don't ride in Scotland. And if you don't ride in Scotland you miss beautiful scenery and wonderful people...

On the subject of brakes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFJ3KayeUTc

I have never heard of a TGV becoming a runaway train (is it because they use disc brakes?)

They may use disc brakes, but I don’t know what they use to apply them. If whatever system they use fails, the disc brakes—like any brakes—are useless.
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Old 02-14-24, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
They may use disc brakes, but I don’t know what they use to apply them. If whatever system they use fails, the disc brakes—like any brakes—are useless.
Let me think... Back in my fire and rescue days most of our heavy vehicles (the 4,000 gallon tender comes to mind) had fail safe air brakes, which I believe became common on rail road cars as well. Yes, if the springs all fail then you have no brakes, but air pressure keeps the brakes off so if the compressor fails the vehicle stops unless all the braked wheels fail.

Note well: my experience with rim brakes on alloy wheels has been that they are adequate until the rims or the cables ice up. On carbon, just getting wet means a significant speed adjustment.
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Old 02-14-24, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
Let me think... Back in my fire and rescue days most of our heavy vehicles (the 4,000 gallon tender comes to mind) had fail safe air brakes, which I believe became common on rail road cars as well. Yes, if the springs all fail then you have no brakes, but air pressure keeps the brakes off so if the compressor fails the vehicle stops unless all the braked wheels fail.

Note well: my experience with rim brakes on alloy wheels has been that they are adequate until the rims or the cables ice up. On carbon, just getting wet means a significant speed adjustment.
Note: It’s possible for “fail safe” railroad air brakes to fail. Maybe not often, but when it does, the outcomes aren’t desirable. Often happens on downgrades where the engineer applies the brakes too often without letting the auxiliary tanks recharge from the compressor. Then there isn’t enough air to apply the brakes after a reduction.

Last edited by smd4; 02-14-24 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 02-14-24, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
I get what cyccommute means. Or, at least, I'm guessing he has a pragmatic attitude toward such things, same as I do. For me, most things are either good enough or not.

Like electric guitar pickups: people on forums endlessly debate the merits of one boutique pickup versus another versus the original patent pending Gibson pickup they're both based on - for me, pickups either work or they don't.
I don't really know anything about guitar pickups but I do know about bass guitar pickups. I wouldn't want to play a song with the wrong set of pickups for that song. It'd work sure, but the sound would be wrong. Series P for classic rock, J and MM for funk and a weird combination of all of the above for song that originally used double bass. Parallel humbuckers for more modern stuff.

Conveniently I have a bass that allows me to choose coils and wiring modes on the fly so I get 90% of my playing needs met with that. Still need that HH stingray though...

Anyhoo, pickups don't really compare that well because there aren't really truly bad pickups in my experience. But there are truly bad brakes. Cantilevers aren't great...
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