Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Disc brakes are great!

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Disc brakes are great!

Old 02-14-24, 12:13 PM
  #101  
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,236

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked 3,693 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Because it was decided to run the front calipers behind the fork so when you brake, the disc and hence the hub is forced down. And out of traditional dropouts.
Thankfully, there's a safety feature built into every fork dropout that prevents pull-out. They're called 'safety tabs", and it's why you have to unscrew the QR skewer to get the wheel off."
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse



Last edited by terrymorse; 02-14-24 at 12:27 PM.
terrymorse is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 12:15 PM
  #102  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3598 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times in 1,824 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Thankfully, there's a safety feature built into every fork dropout that prevents pull-out. They're called 'safety tabs", and it's why you have to unscrew the QR skewer to get the wheel off.
Man, glad I don't have to deal with any of that BS!
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 02-14-24, 12:38 PM
  #103  
Senior Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,994

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26477 Post(s)
Liked 10,441 Times in 7,244 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
The quote you referenced seems like koyote was saying others were insulting and attacking him.
...one of the essential features of good trolling, is the ability to assume the position of victim. This goes on, regardless of topic or circumstance. But as the saying goes lately, here in the general forum, "Hey, you be you." Here's my one question for you. If, as is the real world case, the argument on disc v rim brakes on bicycles has already been decided (by manufacturing and marketing), and you disc brakes, why start this thread at all ?

Or more briefly, as I stated earlier:

Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.
.

...I'm so happy for you. Words can't really describe how happy I am for you, so I made this meme instead.
.
.


There really is an answer to this question, it's just not the one you seem to envision.
​​​​​​​
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 12:54 PM
  #104  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,492
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18521 Post(s)
Liked 15,867 Times in 7,449 Posts
All my bikes have rim brakes. If you have disc brakes, you have better brakes than I do.

Here:

indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 02-14-24, 12:55 PM
  #105  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Eastern Shore MD
Posts: 937

Bikes: Lemond Zurich/Trek ALR/Giant TCX/Sette CX1

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked 850 Times in 433 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
All my bikes have rim brakes. If you have disc brakes, you have better brakes than I do.

Here:

At least you understand!!!
Jughed is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 12:58 PM
  #106  
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,174

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10529 Post(s)
Liked 12,106 Times in 6,195 Posts
"I came here for an argument!"

"Oh! Oh, I'm sorry! This is abuse."
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 02-14-24, 12:59 PM
  #107  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,919

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2368 Post(s)
Liked 2,893 Times in 1,578 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Hmm.

I assume the failure mode is an axle pulling down out of dropouts. Obviously not a problem for the front axle, held in the dropouts with safety tabs.

But the rear axle? It seems that the braking force from a caliper on the seat stay wants to push the axle upwards, holding it into the vertical dropout. I don't see how that force could make the axle want to move downwards and out of the dropout.
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Thankfully, there's a safety feature built into every fork dropout that prevents pull-out. They're called 'safety tabs", and it's why you have to unscrew the QR skewer to get the wheel off."
Not every one....and the whole disc and wheel retention thing is why the current standard for disc brakes is thru axle
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:00 PM
  #108  
Senior Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,994

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26477 Post(s)
Liked 10,441 Times in 7,244 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
All my bikes have rim brakes. If you have disc brakes, you have better brakes than I do.
...there's no way I'd buy and ride a fat tire e-bike with 1500 watt motor, full suspension, and a top speed of 35 mph, unless it came with disc brakes. That would just be crazy.
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 02-14-24, 01:01 PM
  #109  
Senior Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,994

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26477 Post(s)
Liked 10,441 Times in 7,244 Posts
Originally Posted by Jughed
At least you understand!!!
...those cookies are not for weight weenies.
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 02-14-24, 01:08 PM
  #110  
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,174

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10529 Post(s)
Liked 12,106 Times in 6,195 Posts
I'm always amused by people who respond to "disc brakes are better" with "I've never had any problems with rim brakes", as if that makes them the pinnacle of bicycle braking technology. A couple years ago, I got a couple old (early 80s) bikes, with old single-pivot brakes. I found they were A LOT less capable than modern dual pivots, and I posted a thread on C&V about it. Of course I got a lot of useful suggestions, like getting some modern pads. But then there were the folks who said they had "never had a problem" with those old brakes.

I imagine lots of people who've never experienced something better than what they have, have "never had a problem" with whatever it is. In cars, most people "never had a problem" with drum brakes all around because most people weren't pushing them to their limits. In fact they might not even notice the improvement disc brakes in cars made because the car stopped regardless.

Anyhow, my point is that, in my experience with bikes with a variety of brake types, discs > dual pivots > late '80s single pivots > early '80s single pivots. That said, I ride bikes with each of those braking systems and have a great time doing so, and isn't that the point? If it isn't, why the hell would we even ride?
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 02-14-24, 01:08 PM
  #111  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,484
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 409 Times in 281 Posts
Manufactures started putting lawyer lips on bicycles long before disk brakes showed up on the seen. Obviously the QR setup was to complicated for some people. To add sauce to the goose the manufactures then made sub standard QR skewers for those lawyer Lipped bicycles. It is no wonder to me why some people claim that disk brakes can cause the front wheel to be pushed out. I believe that the disk brake equipped bicycles that had a wheel come out had help from functionally illiterate people.
Rick is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:08 PM
  #112  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,434

Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 270 Times in 153 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Thankfully, there's a safety feature built into every fork dropout that prevents pull-out. They're called 'safety tabs", and it's why you have to unscrew the QR skewer to get the wheel off."
Lawyer lips. You're thankful for lawyer lips? Man, I Dremel them $#it$ off and trust myself to tighten the QR sufficiently.
calamarichris is offline  
Likes For calamarichris:
Old 02-14-24, 01:15 PM
  #113  
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,174

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10529 Post(s)
Liked 12,106 Times in 6,195 Posts
Originally Posted by calamarichris
Lawyer lips. You're thankful for lawyer lips? Man, I Dremel them $#it$ off and trust myself to tighten the QR sufficiently.
This is the way.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:24 PM
  #114  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3598 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times in 1,824 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey
I'm always amused by people who respond to "disc brakes are better" with "I've never had any problems with rim brakes", as if that makes them the pinnacle of bicycle braking technology.
My rim brakes feel the same as the disc brakes I've ridden. I only ride when it's dry out. So what, exactly, am I missing?
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 02-14-24, 01:25 PM
  #115  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,919

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2368 Post(s)
Liked 2,893 Times in 1,578 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...there's no way I'd buy and ride a fat tire e-bike with 1500 watt motor, full suspension, and a top speed of 35 mph, unless it came with disc brakes. That would just be crazy.
that is a motorcycle, not a bike....pedals or not and even more so if it has a throttle, not just pedal assist
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 02-14-24, 01:28 PM
  #116  
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,174

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10529 Post(s)
Liked 12,106 Times in 6,195 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
My rim brakes feel the same as the disc brakes I've ridden. I only ride when it's dry out. So what, exactly, am I missing?
Dunno. Maybe you're just insensitive.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:31 PM
  #117  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,922

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3598 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times in 1,824 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey
Dunno. Maybe you're just insensitive.
I'm a sweetheart. But I digress.

The answer, if we're being honest, is "nothing."
smd4 is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:33 PM
  #118  
Senior Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,994

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26477 Post(s)
Liked 10,441 Times in 7,244 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
that is a motorcycle, not a bike....pedals or not and even more so if it has a throttle, not just pedal assist

...I was trying to go with the theme here, that disc brakes are great. It's hard for me to find stuff that supports them as the standard on bicycles, given my use patterns. I'm trying hard here to be positive. Certainly they have enabled this whole expansion into the world of small, lightweight motorized cycles pretending to be bicycles.

Stopping that much mass, rolling at speed, would be a challenge for rim brakes.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:34 PM
  #119  
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,236

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked 3,693 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad

Originally Posted by terrymorse
Thankfully, there's a safety feature built into every fork dropout that prevents pull-out. They're called "safety tabs", and it's why you have to unscrew the QR skewer to get the wheel off.
Not every one....and the whole disc and wheel retention thing is why the current standard for disc brakes is thru axle
For real? I haven't seen a factory fork dropout without a safety tab for many years.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse


terrymorse is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:39 PM
  #120  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,703

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11048 Post(s)
Liked 7,596 Times in 4,236 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
Here's my one question for you. If, as is the real world case, the argument on disc v rim brakes on bicycles has already been decided (by manufacturing and marketing), and you disc brakes, why start this thread at all ?
Why start the thread at all?
- to try and understand why others wont get on board with what you think is clearly the obviously best choice.
- to try and convince holdouts, through conversation, that they should jump on board.
- to try and start an argument for entertainment.

I dont know why koyote started the thread as it isnt my week to peek into his mind and explain his motivations. My week starts March 17th, so ask me then and I can give you a more accurate answer.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:41 PM
  #121  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,492
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18521 Post(s)
Liked 15,867 Times in 7,449 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...those cookies are not for weight weenies.
I baked this Basque Cheesecake in the fall. The nutrition information said it had nearly 9,000 calories. And no, it wasnít burnt. Itís baked at a higher than normal temperature to create the browning,

indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 02-14-24, 01:44 PM
  #122  
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,174

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10529 Post(s)
Liked 12,106 Times in 6,195 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
I'm a sweetheart. But I digress.

The answer, if we're being honest, is "nothing."
Well, guy, I don't know what to tell you, except I find the disc brakes both more powerful and more capable of subtle modulation of speed than rim brakes, plus they work better in the wet.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:45 PM
  #123  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,492
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18521 Post(s)
Liked 15,867 Times in 7,449 Posts
Originally Posted by Jughed
At least you understand!!!
indyfabz is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:45 PM
  #124  
Senior Member
 
Dave Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1379 Post(s)
Liked 482 Times in 282 Posts
Originally Posted by Rick
Manufactures started putting lawyer lips on bicycles long before disk brakes showed up on the seen. Obviously the QR setup was to complicated for some people. To add sauce to the goose the manufactures then made sub standard QR skewers for those lawyer Lipped bicycles. It is no wonder to me why some people claim that disk brakes can cause the front wheel to be pushed out. I believe that the disk brake equipped bicycles that had a wheel come out had help from functionally illiterate people.
Exactly. There are two dominant forces in the bike industry: the need to turn over customer inventory, and legal butt covering. The former is created by planned obsolescence, the proliferation of new 'standards', and choking off the supply chain for older parts. The latter results in dumb stuff like thru axles.

History:
  1. Campagnolo develops the QR in the 30's - a significant improvement that allows wheel changes in the seconds. You flip the lever and the wheel drops out.
  2. Some dumbass in some litigious country hurts themselves, and through the efforts of an ambulance chasing lawyer and muddle-headed jury, successfully sues. Hence: "lawyer lips". Now bike users have to tediously twiddle with their QR lever, actually increasing the chance of a retention problem. As in a lot of riders now just spin their QR lever and never clamp it down, as is necessary to get adequate retention.
  3. Next solution: the thru axle! It is not actually an axle, so it doesn't support any forces and it doesn't make anything stiffer or stronger. It is merely a wheel retention device, that features less clamping force than a properly applied QR. But it is relatively idiotproof, and allows the bike industry to shed any liability.

So now instead of the efficiency of the original QR, we have this heavy, fussy solution that requires spinning and fiddling. Plus it gets lost in your car or the trailhead, and costs $40 to replace. If you can find one of the 10 different 'standards' that fits your hub and fork.
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 02-14-24, 01:49 PM
  #125  
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 18,174

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10529 Post(s)
Liked 12,106 Times in 6,195 Posts
Again with the "10 different standards". Hey, can I use the QR from my 6 speed bike with 126mm spacing on my 10 speed bike with 130? Or my hybrid with 135? No? Gosh, sounds like there are different, incompatible standards for QRs, too!
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.