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Disc brakes are great!

Old 02-14-24, 01:50 PM
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Maybe we should just bring it full circle, and put big wings on the end of thru axles to make them easier to unscrew?
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Old 02-14-24, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Next solution: the thru axle! It is not actually an axle, so it doesn't support any forces and it doesn't make anything stiffer or stronger. It is merely a wheel retention device, that features less clamping force than a properly applied QR. But it is relatively idiotproof, and allows the bike industry to shed any liability.
They probably developed the thru axle because of all the folks spinning their quick releases closed. Thru axles just make good use of all that extra work.
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Old 02-14-24, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
They probably developed the thru axle because of all the folks spinning their quick releases closed. Thru axles just make good use of all that extra work.
I have to say, I do like the precision of thru axles compared to QRs. Especially after my massive sprint (or maybe just my massive mass) keeps pulling the rear wheel off center on the bike with the chrome plated horizontal dropouts! I also find that on some bikes I have to be really careful in aligning the wheel in the dropouts before closing the QR. I don't know why, might be the shape of the dropouts.
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Old 02-14-24, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
For real? I haven't seen a factory fork dropout without a safety tab for many years.
To be more clear/accurate my point was more that wheel retention, safety tab or not, seems to have been enough of an issue that that thru axle is the standard for disc hubs now.(sure there are other benefits)
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Old 02-14-24, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
They probably developed the thru axle because of all the folks spinning their quick releases closed. Thru axles just make good use of all that extra work.
Exactly. At the Co-op and on the bike lanes we see this with terrifying frequency. A lot of riders attach their wheels by spinning the QR until it is sort of tight, without flipping of the lever. Scary.

The bike industry obviously saw this as well, and the associated liability. Thru-axles are not necessary to get wheels properly aligned in the fork, any idiot can accomplish this. But the way that folks were using QR levers incorrectly required another 'solution' that was idiot proof. Hence the PITA thru-axle.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I have to say, I do like the precision of thru axles compared to QRs. Especially after my massive sprint (or maybe just my massive mass) keeps pulling the rear wheel of center on the bike with the chrome plated horizontal dropouts!
Personally, never had that problem. Probably just not strong enough.
Originally Posted by genejockey
I also find that on some bikes I have to be really careful in aligning the wheel in the dropouts before closing the QR. I don't know why, might be the shape of the dropouts.
That's what dropout adjusters are for, on the back. The front, of course, doesn't need them.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Exactly. At the Co-op and on the bike lanes we see this with terrifying frequency. A lot of riders attach their wheels by spinning the QR until it is sort of tight, without flipping of the lever. Scary.

The bike industry obviously saw this as well, and the associated liability. Thru-axles are not necessary to get wheels properly aligned in the fork, any idiot can accomplish this. But the way that folks were using QR levers incorrectly required another 'solution' that was idiot proof. Hence the PITA thru-axle.
So, even if this was the reason for switching to thru axles -- which it's not -- you're complaining that bike manufacturers made a change to make bikes safer?
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Old 02-14-24, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
So, even if this was the reason for switching to thru axles -- which it's not -- you're complaining that bike manufacturers made a change to make bikes safer?
Like reflectors? Have 'em all over your bike, do you?
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Old 02-14-24, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Like reflectors? Have 'em all over your bike, do you?
Your comments seem to have less and less relevancy to the issues being discussed.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Your comments seem to have less and less relevancy to the issues being discussed.
So reflectors aren't a safety feature that annoy most of us?
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Old 02-14-24, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
My rim brakes feel the same as the disc brakes I've ridden. I only ride when it's dry out. So what, exactly, am I missing?
I gather that you ride a road bike, and you stated that you only ride when it's dry out. In those circumstances, I agree that rim brakes are all that's necessary. It's why my two road bikes have rim brakes, and I have no immediate plans to replace them with anything different.

What you do miss, though (as evidenced by your posts in other threads), is that some riders go off-tarmac, some ride in the rain, some ride through mud, some occasionally do steep descents in all of those conditions, and they do it with fat tires -- all of which are better handled by disc brakes.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Personally, never had that problem. Probably just not strong enough.
I only have that problem with the Battaglin, which has chrome plated Campy horizontal dropouts and chrome plated Campy QRs. Both sides of the interface are smooth. I can tell when it's out of alignment because the chain starts rattling in the smallest cog. I ended up cutting rubber washers to put between the faces.

That's what dropout adjusters are for, on the back. The front, of course, doesn't need them.
On the contrary, it's the fork dropouts that seem to be the problem. It's like the wheel has two ways it can sit, and I have to make sure it's sitting right before I close the lever. And yes, the wheels are symmetrical - I checked. I dunno - just something in how the axle interacts with the dropout.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Why start the thread at all?
- to try and understand why others wont get on board with what you think is clearly the obviously best choice.
- to try and convince holdouts, through conversation, that they should jump on board.
- to try and start an argument for entertainment.
- to try to understand why a handful of posters keep insisting that disc brakes are "unnecessary" just because they don't need/want/like them.

(For the record, I've never tried to convince anyone to "get on board" with discs. Not even a little bit.)

Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I dont know why koyote started the thread as it isnt my week to peek into his mind and explain his motivations. My week starts March 17th, so ask me then and I can give you a more accurate answer.
​​​​​​​I'll mark my calendar!
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Old 02-14-24, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
To be more clear/accurate my point was more that wheel retention, safety tab or not, seems to have been enough of an issue that that thru axle is the standard for disc hubs now.(sure there are other benefits)
I always figured the thru axle makes it easier to always keep the rotor perfectly aligned in between the pads; with QR dropouts, you have to at least quickly eyeball it when clamping down the lever -- it's not difficult or time-consuming, though. If I forget to do it, there is usually still no rubbing.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
On the contrary, it's the fork dropouts that seem to be the problem. It's like the wheel has two ways it can sit, and I have to make sure it's sitting right before I close the lever. And yes, the wheels are symmetrical - I checked. I dunno - just something in how the axle interacts with the dropout.
Sounds like the fork legs aren't exactly the same length.
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Old 02-14-24, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
What you do miss, though (as evidenced by your posts in other threads), is that some riders go off-tarmac, some ride in the rain, some ride through mud, some occasionally do steep descents in all of those conditions, and they do it with fat tires -- all of which are better handled by disc brakes.
Again, I am missing nothing. I'm just not addressing them. Just like I don't address 20" bikes and coaster brakes, mountain bikes with V-brakes, or penny farthings with no brakes. Why do you keep missing this?
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Old 02-14-24, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Sounds like the fork legs aren't exactly the same length.
You'd have to take that up with Mr. Ritchey.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
You'd have to take that up with Mr. Ritchey.
I only need to take things up with Mr. Camilotto. Probably something you could measure yourself.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Why start the thread at all?
- to try and understand why others wont get on board with what you think is clearly the obviously best choice.
- to try and convince holdouts, through conversation, that they should jump on board.
- to try and start an argument for entertainment.

I dont know why koyote started the thread as it isnt my week to peek into his mind and explain his motivations. My week starts March 17th, so ask me then and I can give you a more accurate answer.
....I'll try to set a reminder, but the weather should be pretty nice here by then. So I might forget. It would probably help you to review the prior threads he mentions in the OP. But again, you be you. I'd think it might have been easier to just "process the logic" in the initial discussion. But easier is not always better.

OTOH, starting another new thread on a topic that was just recently over discussed is not against the rules. You can start one, too, if you want.

Originally Posted by Koyote
There's been a lot of argument about disc brakes lately, and it feels like both sides talk past each other a bit -- maybe one side more so than the other. After just reading yet another post with a blanket condemnation of disc brakes, I thought I would start this thread. Below are descriptions of my two disc brake bikes and the reasons why I choose discs.


If any of you naysayers think my reasons for running disc brakes (on two of my five bikes) are stupid, ill-informed, whatever, let's hear it right here. I'm eager to process your logic.

​​​​​​
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Old 02-14-24, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I always figured the thru axle makes it easier to always keep the rotor perfectly aligned in between the pads; with QR dropouts, you have to at least quickly eyeball it when clamping down the lever -- it's not difficult or time-consuming, though. If I forget to do it, there is usually still no rubbing.
I figured the same. Vertical dropouts can be a bit “sloppy”.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I gather that you ride a road bike, and you stated that you only ride when it's dry out. In those circumstances, I agree that rim brakes are all that's necessary. It's why my two road bikes have rim brakes, and I have no immediate plans to replace them with anything different.

What you do miss, though (as evidenced by your posts in other threads), is that some riders go off-tarmac, some ride in the rain, some ride through mud, some occasionally do steep descents in all of those conditions, and they do it with fat tires -- all of which are better handled by disc brakes.
...is that an argument for discs on bikes as the universal standard going forward ? Because that seems to be where we are at.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
I only need to take things up with Mr. Camilotto. Probably something you could measure yourself.
Or, you know, just make sure the wheel is properly aligned before closing the QR.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
They are now, after, to use BF veteran framebuilder bulgie's droll phrasing, "the death toll became prohibitive."
Yeah, for sure But people post as if it's still a thing. Front QR dropouts and discs are a non issue any more, at least in my personal experience.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Or, you know, just make sure the wheel is properly aligned before closing the QR.
Tomato, tomahto.
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Old 02-14-24, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
I have found an error in Dave's logic. AMEX platinum cards are made of stainless steel instead of plastic, making them incredibly heavy by comparison. No self respecting cyclist would ever dare carry such an boat anchor on rides. You'd lose several seconds on even short climbs and you'd be left to watch as your powerful, dedicated, handsome riding buddies disappear over the next crest never to be seen again.
Um, this obviously should have been posted in the recent weight weenie thread
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