You’ve got to remember that he once claimed that an adolescent needs an Ultegra Di2 bike with cf wheels to get into racing.

A thought: The multiple between CEO pay and lowest-wage worker pay within a given company, is much higher than it used to be. Is the same true between what is considered a high-end or at least quality built bike, and entry level? As the number of companies explodes and quantities dwindle for even the largest companies, it is natural that everyone is chasing the most premium and profitable market. Until few to none are buying into that market. Further, like other corporate CEOs, those in biking may also be making decisions based on short term profitability and not long term market share and customer satisfaction.

I'm not at all a fan of Wallymart, but from a thread on their bargain gravel bikes, they seem to be offering quite a value for entry level at quality that is above what they had typically sold in one-adult-size bikes. Market-based pricing. My only gripe is that everything is made in China; I'd like to see bike manufacturing for everyday bikes come back to the USA.

Is that an entry level model, or is this a case of people expecting a starter home to have one bathroom for every occupant plus at least one half bath?

They probably wouldn't be a "value" if they were manufactured in the U.S.

And I will remind you again that you are flat lying about this, being nothing more than a troll. Why?

And no - I’m not answering yer other question on purpose. And yes, I have answers.


What drives you to lie? Does it make you feel good?

It's Trek's now only line for a race bike afaik since they melded the Emonda into it. I think if you walk into an LBS and ask to see something in the middle, price-wise, for a road bike, you're looking at something ~$6k and up.

I think this is how most people would want to start their shopping experience anyway. They don't want the cheapest/worst, and don't need the most expensive/best, so natural instinct would be to see something somewhere in the middle.

HighER end.

This thread is about new bikes. Not used. This thread is about one of many highER end bike companies in trouble.

And many of these companies are in trouble. There is no argument there.

The argument I am making are not me complaining - they are about wanting the companies to succeed, bring more people into the sport… like I said above, and say it often. Crazy stuff… I know.

Or if you walked into a Trek store and asked for a good entry-level race bike, you're looking at the $1,200 Domane.

Great bike for the money. You might be able to get a slightly better bike (lighter, higher-level group) from a couple of other companies for around the same money, but any bike in that price range would be good enough to whet your appetite for moving to a higher price range later (or to allow you to stick with that bike, if you're happy with it).

The Madone starts at 3600.

105 mechanical. Alloy bars/stem, crap wheels (and I used to own a set, they sucked - bearings, freehub both crap, boat anchor heavy) - over 19#’s.

You can get a similar Canyon with 105Di2, CF aero bars, DT Swiss wheels for the same price.

The 6k+Madone is = to the $4,500 Canyon.

Trek, Cannondale, Specialized… they charge a pretty steep premium for what is essentially the same performance- or less. And they jack up the high end bikes, higher than many other brands, which in turn allows them to jack up the prices of the mid spec bikes.

And there are cheaper brands than Canyon.

It's likely he meant Domane, not Madone.

Domane, not Madone. Thanks for the correction.

In any event, it's a free market. Everyone has access to all the same information about the bikes that are available for sale. Trek, just like all other bike companies, adjusts prices and specs from year to year in the hope of having the best ROI possible.

It seems that you think their prices and specs indicate that they're guessing poorly in that regard in some instances. If so, fair enough..

The Domane is an endurance geometry, not what I'd consider a race bike. At least Cannondale still offers the CAAD14 lineup, Giant has the TCR Advanced. Spesh and Cervelo are similar to Trek -- entry level respectively Soloist 105 Mech Soloist and Tarmac at $3900/$3500. Specialized notably at least still sell the Allez framesets but not complete bikes. Gone are the days getting an alloy Tiagra or Sora race bike.

I went back to that old thread, and I did indeed misrepresent your point — you suggested that a young new racer needs a 105 Di2 bike with cf wheels:

And the entirety of my post/point revolves around the why. Why isn't there that many young faces at gravel races, and why are there not many road racers out there.

Access and cost. Of the few willing kids with the ability - even fewer of them can overcome access and cost.

And I will say it again - bikes are flat stupid expensive. My last trip to the LBS reinforced that point - say a mid level entry race bike for example, a 105 equipped Madone. Over 6 grand. Sorry boys, that is stupid expensive no matter how you shake it.

Before you respond that it’s not what you meant, please recall that several other posters understood you exactly as I did — suggesting that a $6k bike is somehow necessary to start racing. So if that isn’t your stance, then either we ALL have poor reading skills, or — as you acknowledged in another thread — you have weak communication skills.

This doesn’t surprise me. You routinely ignore responses that challenge or disprove your points.

And now that it’s starting to get too personal with slights, it is time to close this thread.