Go Chuck!

Sure something in the store will have a double markup, but what about the items with only a couple of dollars in markup. We had electronics stuff with 50% markup, and we had loss leaders with nothing to get you in the door. Individual items don't mean anything, thats the bottom line. Selling a demo model/returned item cuts into profit, theft cuts into profit, etc.

At the end of the day, things don't look so grand. Sure they'd all like to only sell 50 point gp items, but it won't happen.

I worked in a bike shop about 15 years ago, and at the time our cost for bikes was about 60-65% of the retail price, but like other posters have mentioned there is some additional labor involved in putting the bike together (not to mention the overhead of the store).

When I was shopping for a bike, I called every bike shop (there are a lot in my area), or looked on their web page to find the best price on the bike I was looking for. I then took this price to my LBS and asked if he could match it. They couldn't quite, but came very close and offered me free service for life, so I went with the LBS. I think in most cases you should be able to negotiate around 10% off, or some kind of upgrade such as better wheels.

15 years ago most bike shops didn't have so much pressure from internet retailers.

I certainly understand that profit margins can be slim....most big-ticket retail is like that. But I don't think that means that a consumer shouldn't try for the best price possible..and it's not a sin for him to do so. There's nothing wrong with haggling. The LBS/Grocery Store analogy isn't particularly apt, since bikes aren't exactly canned peas. The checkout girl isn't in a position to bargain, but the bike shop owner is.

So, if I'm about to spend a whole paycheck on a bike, I'm going to at least see if I can get it down by 10% first. Worst case is the the sales guy/owner is going to say "Sorry, can't do that." There's a good chance that won't change my mind...hey, at least no one can say I didn't try, right? On the other hand, it might make me walk. Depends on how bad I really want the item...and that's for me to decide.

Just like his willingness to bargain depends on how bad he wants to get liquid assests for his stock...and that's for him to decide. That's the beauty of the whole capitalism thing we've got going on.

Everyone's looking out for Number One...and no one else is going to pay attention to my bottom line. What's wrong with me looking out for my best financial interest?

Don't worry about the cost of the bike. You can research the price they are asking on the web easy enough to ensure it is reasonable. The most valuable thing you can get out of making a purchase at your LBS is the relationship you establish with them. Not only is it typical to receive discounts on the higher mark-up 'accessories' (bikes don't have big markups, especially at the high end), but they will provide you with service and useful knowledge that will save you time, money, pain and trouble. For example, I put cash down on the Fuji I have now, picked out some replacement parts and additional accessories that I asked them to install, and told them I would be back in two weeks to pay the balance and pick it up. They not only installed everything at no additional charge, they also tore the bike down to the frame and rebuilt it, ensuring everything was just right, repacked and secure. Then they heavily discounted the extras I asked them to add...like conti TT2000s for like 10 bucks each. When I picked up the bike I had a $1500 MSRP bike with $500 of extras and countless hours of labor for $1300. That is what building a good relationship with your LBS can get you that is worth far more than anything you will save dickering over prices.

Dave, I have no problem with your comment. But there are people that come into the shop and want the internet price, which has a much smaller margin due to lower overhead. You buy an accessory at my LBS, there's a pretty good chance you can get it installed for free. But some fools don't understand that. So they get $10 off from someplace else, then pay us $20 to install it.

One time customers will never get the deal that customers who build a relationship with their shop will get. Sure, you can get pedals or shoes cheaper online. But buy from us, and we'll fit your cleats and make sure your seating position is correct as well.

Good points, and not to beat them silly but... good LBSs (not all are) are the ones that mount the handlebar lights for your mother/grandmother when you're not around, help people new to town decide which lock best suits their neighborhood/parking habits, help people find good cycling routes in the area, and in general are part of the neighborhood community. We help people out all day long, every day, more often than not with a big smile, and it bugs me a bit when someone (who cannot handle all their own repair needs, and will be asking you advice over the coming months) comes in, says "Can you sell me that $550 Pista for $500?" and then literally walks out in a huff, saying "Well i can get it somewhere else for that." Fine. See how REI or an online store handles your follow-up needs. If you need that 10% discount, and $50 means a lot, I completely understand- but maybe you should be looking at a cheaper bike.

Locks! A guy buys an $800 bike, then looks for the cheapest lock. Yes, we had them on sale for 30% off, so he's looking at a $14 lock. I don't get it. I swear, I spend so much time explaining to people that they really need to give some serious thought to where they park their bike before choosing a lock. I hate selling locks. Good markup though.

https://www.pricepoint.com/detail/136...t-Crankset.htm

FSA Carbon Pro Elite Compact from the above link $279.98, plus whatever shipping and handling is. Did not shop for a better price than that, might be one out there.
I have a small account with one distributor, it would cost me $219.00 if I had an order over $350.00 shipping would be free.

In my business a markup on material is at best 15%, the business is not cycle related, so maybe there is not a valid comparison. The above example is about 27% mark up.


I think $60.00 is absurd when it would only take me a minute and a toll free call to order the above part. Even more so when it is most likely that the customer is going to have me install the part, and I get to charge for that labor.

"Recommended sell is $11.95 and I assume cost is about 1/2 that or $6." Recommended where? Cost for cinelli is quite a bit higher than $6[/QUOTE]

Not sure what bar tape he had in mind, but the most expensive tape in the catalog in front of me is a synthetic cork tape by Ciclolinea (made in Italy) for $5.50, sounds like he is pretty close to me. FSA cork tape $5.50, aztec vibewrap $16.90.
So tell me what is "quite a bit higher", if you are willing to post it do so, I am calling your bluff.

That depends on the shop; if you're buying cheaper parts or accessories at some fancy joint that sells Colnagos and such, you'll most likely end up being treated like crap. "Here, Shimano PD520 should work for you, only $65. Shoes under $150? Yeah, SIDI Rampa for $120, that's as cheap as you can get them. Installation will be $40. You want them or not, I don't have the whole day!" Needless to say, I walked out and never set my foot there again. Ended up buying the pedals online for $35, and picked up the shoes at a different shop. Now, that place offered to mount the pedals (which weren't bought there) and cleats for free, even though the shoes were on sale and hardy brought in any profit.

I'll check my prices when I get home, and see what Cinelli costs me.


[edit] Depending on the tape and supplier, Cinelli varies from $6.95 all the way to $12.79. That's dealer cost.

They want your future business, and from the sounds of it, will get it. Location is a big factor, as demographics also dictate what sells at what markup.

It seems as if there is a huge divide between those who really know, and those that take a guess or listen to those who take a guess. There is no hope of convincing the ones that don't know, they think you are making it up for your own benefit (profit). They don't care anyway, they want that ten dollars for themselves.

Quality catalog, page 781. Cinelli tape, all colors are $8.25, except Zebra which is $10,50, Lux at $17.00, and Gel $12.75. Buy more than ten and get 30-35 cent break per. We sell the regular cork for $15.95

Bar tape, like tubes, are one of those labor intensive sell items. Most of our customers need to have us compare and contrast the five brands of tape we have, select the color for them(seriously) and then give a tutorial on how to wrap a bar. That is why we add on the $7.70 Nasbar has plain tape for $11.95 and splash for $14.95(cost is the same as plain) altho they are both on sale for $9.99 at the moment. If the customer came in made all the decisions for himself and rang himself up then we maybe could do the same.

2manybikes-
"They don't care anyway, they want that ten dollars for themselves."

I rebuilt a Spinergy Spox mtb wheel for a guy. He dropped it off friday evening, with the rim he bought online(He has never purchased stock from us, that I know of) and I had it ready by lunch the next day. He complained about the high cost of the build. It was fourty bucks. He has left us hanging with special orders several times and was the catalyst for our strict "pay for it first" policy

Wow! Friday evening to lunchtime Saturday! Good job. Is that a picture of the wheel? I can appreciate all the time one has to invest to learn how to build a good wheel. It's huge. Not to even mention the labor for that one particular build.

The newest thing happening here, is that lots of people come in and ask "What bolt diameter is my crank?" or "What diameter is my seatpost?" Some of them actually say (after an answer) they are then going to buy the part on line. The shop owner can now predict them coming with almost 100% accuracy. I admire your patience Rev. Chuck. you certainly need it. Hang in there.

The spox are a hassle you need two wrenches, one to hold the spoke and one to turn the nipple. The one pictured is one I grabbed off the web, but the same model.

When we have people come in wanting part spec we ask up fron if they are looking to buy online. Then I bring up Nashbar on the computer to compare pricing and often it is pretty close esp. after shipping. Like the Cinelli tape, Nashbar is blowing out the Cinelli cork ribbon for $10.95( https://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?brand=1118&init=y )add the shipping $4.95(Their minimum for ground on a twenty dollar or less order https://www.nashbar.com/help/shipinfo.cfm ) and you are at $15.90. With tax our tape is $17.06 and in their hands right now. They also only have white available in the solid colors( https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= ), we have them all.

That's excellent. I'll have to pass that along. Thanks.

hmmmmm but i can check the internet for car invoice prices before shopping... why not bikes?

Well, car invoices is based upon MSRP and often times, dealers get additional discounts. Same thing with bikes, you often don't see the qty 5-10 or 20+ price-breaks. What people don't realize is mom & pop operations don't make a lot of money total anyway. Barely covers their rent on the building, fixed & variable costs, labor, taxes, etc. Even with what you may think is an extreme mark-up compared to mail-order operations, they're not becoming millionaires overnight. They're in it for the love of biking and helping others enjoy the sport. There's decades of experience and knowlege you cannot get anywhere else.

"The newest thing happening here, is that lots of people come in and ask "What bolt diameter is my crank?" or "What diameter is my seatpost?" Some of them actually say (after an answer) they are then going to buy the part on line. The shop owner can now predict them coming with almost 100% accuracy. I admire your patience Rev. Chuck. you certainly need it. Hang in there. "

It's tough not to be rude to these folks, eh? I would usually volunteer just the least amount of info, like "26.8mm" and send them on their way... Use facial-recognition software on the POS computer so when they do come in requiring labour to straighten out their botched job, they get a "special" labour-rate... heh, heh...

You can check the price of everything on line. There's no reason you can't do it with bikes. That's not really the point, as I see it.

Don't take a lot of time from a business when you know you are not going to buy. They have work to do. It's inconsiderate, bad business, and bad manners. If one needs the special skills of some particular
business, don't complain if it costs something. I don't mean you are doing this, I just mean that's more the point as opposed to just price checking.

Are you going to have to pay shipping, or pay to get that on line bike working correctly? Do you need advice to get it fit correctly? That may be the same cost or more than the total of an on line bike purchase. In that case the on line merchant took advantage of you, not the bike shop who wants you to pay to get it assembled.
Is there a full warrantee or a free tune up with the on line bike purchase? You may have to pay for a tune up in the future.

Look at the hidden costs when buying something on line.

Don't tell me you think the price show on the web page is the total cost to you?

Well, I haven't seen anyone mention that the bike shops make more $ off the accessories and service than just the bike selling alone. Even though it is the "big ticket".

I don't know what the mark-up on new bikes and bike parts is. I wanted to ask the guy running the bike shop down the street, but I could not find him. Half the time, he is sailing his yacht through the Hawaiian Islands. The other half of the time, he is at his ski chalet in Switzerland.

He also gave me some good advise on how to run a bike shop for fifty years, and then retire with a million dollars in the bank. He said: "at age twenty, put two million dollars in the bank, and then open a bike shop. After fifty years of hard work, with some good luck, you can retire with a million dollars in the bank."

Everyday, guys come into his shop. Ask lots of questions. Take bikes for test rides. Ask for time consuming "fittings" to dial-in the exact right size. Ask more questions. Then, they leave the shop. They buy the bike from a shop fifty miles away, because it was $20 cheaper. If not for spending most of his time on his yacht, and his lengthy ski vacations, that sort of "customer" would drive the bike shop owner nuts.

Did you actually read anything in this thread?

I was good enough to omit the erroneous guesses as to what Cinelli tape actually costs and the absolutely insnae comment about 300% markup on shoes.