Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Anyone had a tube randomly explode?

Search
Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Anyone had a tube randomly explode?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-03-05 | 02:20 AM
  #26  
DannoXYZ's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,754
Likes: 26
From: Mesa, AZ

Bikes: Moots RCS, tandem, beach-cruiser, MTB, Specialized-Allez road-bike, custom track-bike

Originally Posted by Machka
In my case the temperature change would have been from about -10C/14F to about +30C/86F because I had turned the heat up in the apartment when I got in because I was chilled.
...
And in my case, the bead was still intact on the rim.
...
So heat and cold do have an effect on things filled with air!
Yes, balloons change their volume in relation to temperature according to PV=nRT, however, internal-pressure remains the same (roughly atmospheric). With tyres it's different because volume remains constant, while pressure changes with temperature.

What was the air-temperature at the time you filled the tyre? Let's take a case where you filled up the tyre inside at 30C/86F. When you went outside, the pressure dropped, then rose back up to the exact same level as before when you brought it back inside (from PV=nRT):

30C/86F = 100psi --> -10C/14F = 87psi --> 30C/86F = 100psi

Now what about a worse-case scenario where you filled it up outside at the coldest possible temp, then brought it inside:

-10C/14F = 100psi --> 30C/86F = 115psi

A gain of 15psi is not significant enough to blow through the sidewall of a tyre. The max-pressure rating printed on the sidewall is usually about 1/2 of what the blow-off pressure is under testing. That's the pressure that expands the bead enough to blow it off the rim. The casing never blows, it can easily withstand much, much more than the bead. Most likely, you had a weak spot on your sidewall from a scratch or a nick.


Originally Posted by More&Faster
i'm not surprised you're unfamiliar with this type of blowout, you're from california! a lot of credibility you have then. It'll be obvious to you when you inspect one of these cases. pulling the tire off the rim is near impossible, so it's obvious that that's the problem. i've never experienced that on aluminum rims, but many times on steel.

even though you're not really worth my time, i decided to open up my old physics books just to prove my point:

for a 45 degree fahrenheit drop in temp:
Steel shrinks by .0262%
Aluminum by .07920%
Rubber on bg4533's tires: .07651%

calculated pressure change with aluminum rims: -5.8%
calculated pressure change with steel rims: 29.9%

as you can see, aluminum is quite good and safe. even better are titanium rims, and better still would be einsteinium which provides a pressure change of exactly zero, which was actually invented by albert einstein himself for the purpose of creating bicycle rims. unfortunately the cost of manufacturing the rims was too high, and einstein died before he could see his dream through.
Uh... wanna show your actual in-the-field measurements? ETRO sizing on rims are 622mm for both alloy and steel 700C rims. 630mm for 27" wheels. What is your before & after measurement on these rims before and after the temperature changed? It's well known fact that Mavic alloy rims are slightly larger than spec, making tyre-mounting slightly more difficult, but less chance of them blowing off. Steel rims tends to be chrome-plated without hook-beads, making tyres easy to slip off regardless of temperature.

How did you calculate pressure-change difference of 35.7% when difference in dimensional change between aluminium and steel is only .07920% - .0262% = 0.053%? Also be aware that all calculations needs to be in SI units with temperature in Kelvins starting at absolute zero.

Regardless of whatever mathematical models you use, it MUST be corroborated with real-world measurements. Actual in-the-field measurements with a tyre gauge will show you the exact pressure-change with temperature. I'll wager an even $10,000 that with the SAME tyre and SAME tube, you WILL NOT see a pressure change of -5.8% with an alloy rim while a steel rim shows 29.9% with a 45-degree-F drop in temperature. Hell, I'll throw my Porsche into the pot as well. And any bike you want from your favorite bike-shop.

So according to you, when the ambient air-temperature drops by 45-F, we should see the following?

100psi tyre on alloy rim -> 94.2psi ?
100psi tyre on steel rim -> 129.9psi ?

Let's see it! Besides, a tyre at 100psi going to 130psi with a 45-F drop in temperature (even if that was possible) isn't gonna blow up!!!

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-03-05 at 03:01 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 03:27 AM
  #27  
Junior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: columbus, ohio
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Yes, balloons change their volume in relation to temperature according to PV=nRT, however, internal-pressure remains the same (roughly atmospheric). With tyres it's different because volume remains constant, while pressure changes with temperature.

What was the air-temperature at the time you filled the tyre? Let's take a case where you filled up the tyre inside at 30C/86F. When you went outside, the pressure dropped, then rose back up to the exact same level as before when you brought it back inside (from PV=nRT):

30C/86F = 100psi --> -10C/14F = 87psi --> 30C/86F = 100psi

Now what about a worse-case scenario where you filled it up outside at the coldest possible temp, then brought it inside:

-10C/14F = 100psi --> 30C/86F = 115psi

A gain of 15psi is not significant enough to blow through the sidewall of a tyre. The max-pressure rating printed on the sidewall is usually about 1/2 of what the blow-off pressure is under testing. That's the pressure that expands the bead enough to blow it off the rim. The casing never blows, it can easily withstand much, much more than the bead. Most likely, you had a weak spot on your sidewall from a scratch or a nick.


Uh... wanna show your actual in-the-field measurements? ETRO sizing on rims are 622mm for both alloy and steel 700C rims. 630mm for 27" wheels. What is your before & after measurement on these rims before and after the temperature changed? It's well known fact that Mavic alloy rims are slightly larger than spec, making tyre-mounting slightly more difficult, but less chance of them blowing off. Steel rims tends to be chrome-plated without hook-beads, making tyres easy to slip off regardless of temperature.

How did you calculate pressure-change difference of 35.7% when difference in dimensional change between aluminium and steel is only .07920% - .0262% = 0.053%? Also be aware that all calculations needs to be in SI units with temperature in Kelvins starting at absolute zero.

Regardless of whatever mathematical models you use, it MUST be corroborated with real-world measurements. Actual in-the-field measurements with a tyre gauge will show you the exact pressure-change with temperature. I'll wager an even $10,000 that with the SAME tyre and SAME tube, you WILL NOT see a pressure change of -5.8% with an alloy rim while a steel rim shows 29.9% with a 45-degree-F drop in temperature. Hell, I'll throw my Porsche into the pot as well. And any bike you want from your favorite bike-shop.

So according to you, when the ambient air-temperature drops by 45-F, we should see the following?

100psi tyre on alloy rim -> 94.2psi ?
100psi tyre on steel rim -> 129.9psi ?

Let's see it! Besides, a tyre at 100psi going to 130psi with a 45-F drop in temperature (even if that was possible) isn't gonna blow up!!!
oh boy, where do i begin? first off, before i even get started, i should point out to you that PV=nRT becomes severely inaccurate at high pressures and high temperatures, so it really cannot be applied here. at high pressures, a decrease in volume will result in a higher pressure change than would be predicted by the ideal gas law.

okay, moving on....the numbers i quoted were coefficients of thermal expansion taken directly from Materials Science and Engineering, by Dr. Theodor Seuss Geisel. it's much more accurate than taking my own measurements, so i took the liberty of skipping that step. also i used SI units throughout the calculations, only converting to english units at the beginning and end to make the results more useful. to be fair, i've never actually tested this, but it's pretty much common knowledge where i come from.

i suppose i could do some basic experiments tomorrow to further prove it to you if you're still not satisfied. i can't believe that knowledge of this phenomenon has been around for so long and still so many people don't understand it. the eskimos would be disappointed.
More&Faster is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 04:06 AM
  #28  
DannoXYZ's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,754
Likes: 26
From: Mesa, AZ

Bikes: Moots RCS, tandem, beach-cruiser, MTB, Specialized-Allez road-bike, custom track-bike

Originally Posted by More&Faster
oh boy, where do i begin? first off, before i even get started, i should point out to you that PV=nRT becomes severely inaccurate at high pressures and high temperatures, so it really cannot be applied here. at high pressures, a decrease in volume will result in a higher pressure change than would be predicted by the ideal gas law.
Correction tables to the ideal gas law only needs to be applied at pressures above 10-atmospheres and temperatures close to the liquefaction point of the gas. Both of which are far enough away from our examples, that PV=nRT would indeed be sufficient.

Let's check your math model before we get into physical experiments. I don't doubt your figures for:

1. 0.0262% thermal expansion of steel
2. 0.07920% thermal expansion of aluminium
3. 0.07651% thermal expansion of rubber (although most of the structure of a tyre is the casing)

Show me how you take those figures and come up with the resultant pressure-change in a tyre such that with a 45-F drop, you get:

calculated pressure change with aluminum rims: -5.8%
calculated pressure change with steel rims: 29.9%

Then we can confirm it with emperical testing and get actual pressure-readings of:

100psi tyre on alloy rim -> 94.2psi
100psi tyre on steel rim -> 129.9psi

I'll even throw in my 2nd Porsche if you can show me a video of the steel-rim tyre gaining 29.9 psi as it cools 45-F and blowing the tyre off the rim!

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 11-03-05 at 04:18 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 12:43 PM
  #29  
supcom's Avatar
You need a new bike
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 4
You got that fish hooked, More&Faster. Now let's see if you can get him into the boat.
supcom is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 12:50 PM
  #30  
Junior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: columbus, ohio
Originally Posted by supcom
You got that fish hooked, More&Faster. Now let's see if you can get him into the boat.
i'm glad someone finally noticed. i was running out of bull**** to say.

DannoXYZ, i apologize for playing with you, but it was just too easy. i left hints in all my posts that i was bull****ting.....i mean, einsteinium?
More&Faster is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 02:27 PM
  #31  
DannoXYZ's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,754
Likes: 26
From: Mesa, AZ

Bikes: Moots RCS, tandem, beach-cruiser, MTB, Specialized-Allez road-bike, custom track-bike

Whatd you talkin' about?@!#$! I've got a sample of a new Araya rim made from einsteinium right here! Now gotta find those damn pliers to take this hook outta my cheek... Heh, heh... good one!
DannoXYZ is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 04:53 PM
  #32  
18 dog baby
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Honolulu

Bikes: 2008 crosscheck complete, 1984 Pugeot fixed conversion

i was at the start of a Critical Mass in, of all places, Honolulu, Hawaii when it happened to one of the activists. He had 2.5s on his Surly Instigator. Big huge knobbies. Thebike was just leaning against a planter when "BLAM!" it exploded.
Unlike the original poster, nothing was damaged too bad. The innertube just came hemoraging out of the tire — kind of like a hernia.
2mtr is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 06:49 PM
  #33  
bg4533's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
From: OH
For a little more clarification...More&Faster is my roommate. He was standing next to me when the tube blew. Thanks for the laugh DannoXYZ
bg4533 is offline  
Reply
Old 11-03-05 | 07:00 PM
  #34  
edp773's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 0
From: Illinios

Bikes: 2004 Giant Cypress, 2006 Trek 7.3 FX, 2007 Gary Fisher Wahoo

A pinched tube may cause a tube to blow, but from my experiance it usually causes a flat tire. A blowout can be caused by a bead coming off the rim, a weak tube, or even a bad tire.

I love seeing a person over inflate their bike tire at the gas sation. This makes me laugh too.

For noise. I had a semi tire knock the bead off the rim and blow the tube. It knocked me on my butt, besides making my ears ring. The guy talking to me just turned and walked away without saying a word. People came running from blocks away to see what happened. One person thought I had been shot by a cannon. LOL!
edp773 is offline  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.