anyone else hate clipless?
07-18-08 | 07:09 AM
#26
Goon
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
From: Ypsilanti, MI
Bikes: Rocky Mountain RC30, Soma Sport Fixed
I've been debating Clipless, or Toe-clips.
I like the Idea of Clipless pedals, but all the shoes are kind of silly looking... Does no one offer a "regular" looking shoe without the funny velcro?
I like the Idea of Clipless pedals, but all the shoes are kind of silly looking... Does no one offer a "regular" looking shoe without the funny velcro?
07-18-08 | 08:03 AM
#28
rebmeM roineS
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,230
Likes: 363
From: Metro Indy, IN
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
https://manolomen.com/images/Skull%20...ip%20shoes.jpg
07-18-08 | 08:14 AM
#29
Goon
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
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From: Ypsilanti, MI
Bikes: Rocky Mountain RC30, Soma Sport Fixed
Lots and lots of different shoes available, many of them with no velcro. What do you consider a "regular looking shoe"?
https://manolomen.com/images/Skull%20...ip%20shoes.jpg
https://manolomen.com/images/Skull%20...ip%20shoes.jpg
07-18-08 | 08:46 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 289
From: Vancouver, BC
Nonsense. I'm not a racer or pro but there are numerous times during a ride where I am pulling up on the pedals and find it helpful. On my regular ride I have a 14% hill to climb and it's a lot more work without being clipped in. Those studies may be valid for steady state pedaling but they don't apply to climbing or sprinting.
07-18-08 | 02:05 PM
#31
Mad scientist w/a wrench
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 760
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From: Chucktown
Bikes: none working atm
Honestly, if you don't like them...don't use them and quit hatin'
Personally, I think there's a range of applications both for and against them. There are speeds and circumstances at which its impossible to argue their usefulness and
<begin trollfood>
there are speeds at which a skilled person on good platforms can do as well or better than a relatively unskilled clipless rider
and insofar as that whole leg lifting thing, personally I feel more like I get better control over the forward/backward movement than the up and down, but either way, the higher the percentage of the stroke that both legs contribute power to the chain, the better.
<end trollfood>
But personally, my clydesdale's hooves ALWAYS slipped off of platforms every time I tried to ride them in any kind of serious cadence (read: 70+rpm in my lame case) and I definately lack the coordination to use clips and straps as well as my size 13's dont fit in most standard clips with the shoes I'm comfortable to wear. so I LOVE them, but ymmv.
I will however hate on clipless SHOES, well I would have until I found out my favorite brand: Keen makes spd sandals. I just want an SPD work-boot with enough recess to give clearance for my cleats so I can ride to work, unclip and be out on the concrete floor without sounding like a horse
Personally, I think there's a range of applications both for and against them. There are speeds and circumstances at which its impossible to argue their usefulness and
<begin trollfood>
there are speeds at which a skilled person on good platforms can do as well or better than a relatively unskilled clipless rider
and insofar as that whole leg lifting thing, personally I feel more like I get better control over the forward/backward movement than the up and down, but either way, the higher the percentage of the stroke that both legs contribute power to the chain, the better.
<end trollfood>
But personally, my clydesdale's hooves ALWAYS slipped off of platforms every time I tried to ride them in any kind of serious cadence (read: 70+rpm in my lame case) and I definately lack the coordination to use clips and straps as well as my size 13's dont fit in most standard clips with the shoes I'm comfortable to wear. so I LOVE them, but ymmv.
I will however hate on clipless SHOES, well I would have until I found out my favorite brand: Keen makes spd sandals. I just want an SPD work-boot with enough recess to give clearance for my cleats so I can ride to work, unclip and be out on the concrete floor without sounding like a horse
07-18-08 | 02:40 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
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Not that one need be forced to use what they don't like . But, I can't believe they have been given enough time to work all the bugs out. I love them. Just pushing down , rather than the option of spinning. It makes my feet ache to think all the pressure is spent solely pushing down. Plus, I'd never, ever stand on pedals without the security of clipless. Never. Its like you are far more vunerable. And I hate having your shins knocked all the time by pedals. / Can't say , I have expereinced your complaint once you give them time and get truly acquainted with them.
07-18-08 | 03:06 PM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: San Marcos, CA
Bikes: Domane 9.0 sl
I've learned to love clipless for my road bike. I estimate a 20% power gain and immediate speed increase BUT I hate them on my MTB! I'm not quick enough to get out of a bad situation on the trails...........
07-18-08 | 03:19 PM
#34
A bike's speed is controlled by your cadence. Your cadence will be identical with good BMX pedals or clipless...cadence is a function of heart, lungs and legs...your pedals are just along for the ride.
07-18-08 | 06:20 PM
#36
Mad scientist w/a wrench
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Chucktown
Bikes: none working atm
but any biomed will tell you that your leg movement is a function of 2 muscles. one to contract and one to relax. we take the "relaxing" (or, iirc,the antagonist muscle) for granted, but where the 1st model describes a 2-cylinder system where inertia (or the pedal) carries the cylinder not performing work back to its top dead center postion, a second, more detailed model would describe the antagonist muscles as a second set of (albeit often weaker, but able to be developed) cylinders capable of producing work on each leg's upstroke.
its a misunderstanding among a lot of people to think that a leg on its return-stroke (or pedal pulling) will provide as much power as on the downstroke. you're probably looking at more like 80/20. but since that 20 is being completely ignored on a platform pedal, clipless can help.
I will add that from my experience, that 20% retraction is almost completely negated by inertia on a fixed gear once your cadence breaks about 80rpms...IME clipless on an FG is more about using your legs as a form of engine braking and/or keeping the inertia of the system from pulling the pedals right out from under your feet.
07-18-08 | 06:35 PM
#37
rebmeM roineS
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,230
Likes: 363
From: Metro Indy, IN
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
https://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg
https://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg
https://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg
Not exactly sneakers, more like low hikers. There probably are some sneaker-style clipless shoes out there - Lake used to make some and the first SPD shoes I wore were sneaker style from Nashbar. (more than a few years ago.)
https://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg
https://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg
Not exactly sneakers, more like low hikers. There probably are some sneaker-style clipless shoes out there - Lake used to make some and the first SPD shoes I wore were sneaker style from Nashbar. (more than a few years ago.)
07-18-08 | 06:56 PM
#38
Junior Member
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07-18-08 | 07:17 PM
#39
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Atlantic Beach, FL
Bikes: Cannondale F600sl, Windsor Falkirk Carbon
Total BS. Try riding through a fast, bumpy, technical section of singletrack on bmx pedals and see how well they "lock" your foot down. You will fail and there will be pain involved. Clipless or at least clips and straps will keep your feet on the pedals a tousand times better than a bmx pedal ever could. And I know your argument will be "Bmx riders use them and there feet don't come off the pedals!". Watch a Bmx race, they pedal hard through the smoother sections and then stop pedaling over the bumps. Do this in mountain biking and again, you will fail and there will be pain involved.
07-18-08 | 08:48 PM
#40
Bottecchia fan
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
The right tool for the job - on my commuter I use cage pedals and street shoes; on my mountain bike I use mountain shoes and Time clipless pedals; on my road bike I use Sidis and Look clipless. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages.
If I could walk comfortably in my Sidis with Look cleats I would wear them for all riding as they are by far the most comfortable and efficient pedal system I have tried for riding.
And for the record, my knee pain STOPPED when I started using the Look pedals. They have plenty of float and they allow me to position my feet correctly and then adjust slightly as needed.
If I could walk comfortably in my Sidis with Look cleats I would wear them for all riding as they are by far the most comfortable and efficient pedal system I have tried for riding.
And for the record, my knee pain STOPPED when I started using the Look pedals. They have plenty of float and they allow me to position my feet correctly and then adjust slightly as needed.
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1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
07-19-08 | 03:52 AM
#41
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,276
Likes: 702
From: all the way down under
Bikes: several
Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. You ought to stop spouting this nonsense as the only thing you're informing us about is your complete ignorance on the subject.
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"Surely one can love his own country without becoming hopelessly lost in an all-consuming flame of narrow-minded nationalism" - Fred Birchmore
"Surely one can love his own country without becoming hopelessly lost in an all-consuming flame of narrow-minded nationalism" - Fred Birchmore
07-19-08 | 05:07 AM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
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All the "problems" with clipless are because people who in the past wouldn't have even dreamed of using toe clips are rushing into getting clipless pedals. Using either toe clips or clipless is really intended more for sporty riding in which the experienced rider is generally more aware of what he/she is doing. They are a big money maker for bike shops though, and so way too many people who are buying non-performance oriented bikes are walking out of LBS's with clipless pedals. There is zero benefit to having your feet attached to the pedals unless you're riding with some intensity, going up hills, etc. If you are doing that, then you should consider either toe clips or clipless pedals and cycling shoes. If you aren't, then don't bother and save your money for something else.
It's kind of silly these days to see people riding very upright on comfort bikes and many hybrids using clipless pedals for riding along under 10 mph. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but don't expect that you get much benefit from using clipless for that kind of riding. If in the past, you wouldn't have put toe clips on the bike, then you probably don't need clipless pedals either.
It's kind of silly these days to see people riding very upright on comfort bikes and many hybrids using clipless pedals for riding along under 10 mph. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but don't expect that you get much benefit from using clipless for that kind of riding. If in the past, you wouldn't have put toe clips on the bike, then you probably don't need clipless pedals either.
07-19-08 | 08:34 PM
#43
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 447
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From: clipped in
Bikes: Pacific hardtail (frame only right now); Weyless SP (frame/fork right now); Jamis Dakar XLT 1.0 custom build-up (fully functional)
Clipless is pointless...unless you are a pro who gets fittings from the very best people in the field. Locking yourself to a pedal is an excellent way to create business for knee surgeons but not a good way to ride a bike.
For fitness and recreational cyclists, a good BMX pedal (one that fully supports the entire forward portion of the foot) is a better way to go. It enables you to select the best foot position for your needs at a given moment, but easily change your foot to another position. A GOOD BMX pedal "locks" to a rubber soled shoe or sandal and your foot can NOT come off the pedal by accident.
Rivendell sells both an expensive and an inexpensive BMX pedal made by MKS. Both are fine pedals, but the expensive one is built to last a lifetime.
There are folks who do not know how a bike works, and they delude themselves into thinking that they are "lifting" the pedals with their feet. Every scientific study done on pedals proves the opposite...as the pedal rises, it is lifting your foot and leg.
The speed of the bike depends on the speed of your cadence. A person who can maintain a 100 RPM cadence for an hour with clipless pedals can also maintain a 100 RPM cadence with BMX pedals.
The best part about BMX pedals? They work just as well with some $20 sandals as they do with any rubber soled shoes you own. Heck, they even work with "flip flops" for a ride to the beach.
For fitness and recreational cyclists, a good BMX pedal (one that fully supports the entire forward portion of the foot) is a better way to go. It enables you to select the best foot position for your needs at a given moment, but easily change your foot to another position. A GOOD BMX pedal "locks" to a rubber soled shoe or sandal and your foot can NOT come off the pedal by accident.
Rivendell sells both an expensive and an inexpensive BMX pedal made by MKS. Both are fine pedals, but the expensive one is built to last a lifetime.
There are folks who do not know how a bike works, and they delude themselves into thinking that they are "lifting" the pedals with their feet. Every scientific study done on pedals proves the opposite...as the pedal rises, it is lifting your foot and leg.
The speed of the bike depends on the speed of your cadence. A person who can maintain a 100 RPM cadence for an hour with clipless pedals can also maintain a 100 RPM cadence with BMX pedals.
The best part about BMX pedals? They work just as well with some $20 sandals as they do with any rubber soled shoes you own. Heck, they even work with "flip flops" for a ride to the beach.
I, for one, ride mtb for everything, and I DO lift on the pedals, and NO, it's not a fantasy. And, uh, if the BMX pedal claim was true, BMX pedals would come in sub-200 gram sets, and BE used by TDF riders. Even Lance had a hard time with 100rpm for 1hour+....
If you don't like clipless, ride platforms; if you've never tried them and don't care, keep on with what you're using. If you're curious, try them (SPD's are adjustable tension, good for "transition"); if you like them, ride them. But don't throw out sweeping nonsensical statements that do nothing to actually back up your position.
Retrogrouches and progessive pr***s will never see eye to eye, anyway.
07-19-08 | 09:05 PM
#44
Senior Member
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From: Jacksonville, FL
Bikes: Trek Checkmate, Lynskey Elysium, Trek FX 5 Sport
07-19-08 | 10:56 PM
#46
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Naptown
Bikes: NWT 24sp DD; Brompton M6R
07-20-08 | 03:56 PM
#47
If you think your feet "lift" the pedals, instead of the pedal lifting your foot, yes, you have a vivid imagination.
Take a bike out on a track for an hour with your feet "clipped in". Find the fastest cadence you can maintain for an hour. Put high quality BMX pedals on that same bike. Guess what? If you can maintain a 90 RPM cadence for an hour clipped in, you can maintain an 90 RPM cadence for an hour with BMX pedals.
This is not something you need to guess, or speculate, or imagine. It takes five minutes to swap out a pair of pedals. An hour later, you will know the truth: being clipped in is a wonderful scam...if you are one of the people selling $200 pedals and $200 shoes.
Take a bike out on a track for an hour with your feet "clipped in". Find the fastest cadence you can maintain for an hour. Put high quality BMX pedals on that same bike. Guess what? If you can maintain a 90 RPM cadence for an hour clipped in, you can maintain an 90 RPM cadence for an hour with BMX pedals.
This is not something you need to guess, or speculate, or imagine. It takes five minutes to swap out a pair of pedals. An hour later, you will know the truth: being clipped in is a wonderful scam...if you are one of the people selling $200 pedals and $200 shoes.
07-20-08 | 04:15 PM
#48
Senior Curmudgeon
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,856
Likes: 2
From: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Clipless SUUUUUUUUUUCKS!
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07-20-08 | 04:53 PM
#50
Conservative Hippie
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,268
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From: Wakulla Co. FL
I wouldn't say I hate clipless, but the pedals are in a box with a bunch of other spare/unused stuff. The shoes are on a shelf... somewhere.
I went from clipless on one bike, toe clips on two others, and platforms on another bike to Power Grips and have never been happier with a pedal system.
I went from clipless on one bike, toe clips on two others, and platforms on another bike to Power Grips and have never been happier with a pedal system.