Toe clips pinched my toes, especially with sneakers. Ouch. I use clipless and flat pedals but I'll never go back to toe clips.

i don't hate clipless but sometimes when i ride with kids i like to ride on standard pedals. it's a bit freeing and relaxing. i don't feel like i have to hammer. it's a different state of mind.

I've never used clipless. I've got size 14 (US) feet, and the only pedal/shoe combo I found in that size was wwaaayyyy more $$$ than I wanted to spend. So I use clips, straps kept loose enough to exit quickly.

Most important thing is using the setup that you feel comfortable and safe with. If you're getting out and riding, thats all that matters.

After a while using clipless becomes second nature.

These kind of look like regular shoes. I wear them on my commuter. They come in grey or brown. https://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=2120

I don't hate 'em, I just don't use 'em.don't understand why you want to be physically attached to the pedals. seems like an accident waiting to happen. but hey, whatever floats yer boat.

actually, i do recall being a cog or two faster with clipless. it's just so annoying in traffic. every couple of minutes i have to unclip. so, i've gone back to plats, for now.

So you're the problem, not the pedals.

The true is it only takes a sec to get physically unattached to your bike.
That being said clipless are more efficient and will make you a faster rider.
And on rough terrain there is no fear of slipping or falling off your bike.
However they are not for everyone. I think it all depends on your type/style of
riding and how far you want to push yourself.

I agree clipless pedals are definitely not for everyone, and a lot who do have them definitely don't need them. In that sense yes they can be a scam by a shop as many shops im sure push the accessories (shoes and pedals) to people who want to cycle that are just looking to get the lead out and not nessicarily race or anything.

That said your theories here about not lifting and no advantage, you are absolutely on crack. I did a little real world test. Last week all I had were pedals and toe straps and my size 10 nikes. Whatever I could do the best cadence I could hold up for any sort of distance was 105 (for about a mile or so) and a burst at 110, I averaged about 89 (around about 30 miles, and this was common for most of my rides over the past few months). This week, same bike, new pedals and Shimano tri shoes. My average for my whole ride was 95 (about 25 miles) and I was able to burst and hold 120.

Unless I grew some new muscles in a week, Or I traded places with Lance himself. I think the shoes did the trick... But thats just me and testing your theory.

Wow, there are some strongly held opinions on this thread as there always is when platforms / clipped vs clipless comes up.

I say that the greatest foot retention is obviously sticking one's foot in one's mouth.

I've ridden both and am just as comfortable with MKS Pedals with Toe Clips and Straps as I ever was with my SPD's. Plus I can wear any shoe I desire.

Or you just had one good day. Since you had foot retention systems in both cases, there's no reason why clipless should have been so much better than straps.

I guess it's like driving stick in stop&go traffic eh.

Learn how to Track Stand foo!

Consider this:

Your right foot is on the downstroke and you left foot is on the pedal, the pedal pushing your left foot back up. If your left foot is in contact at all with the pedal, it's is giving added resistance to the crank that your right foot on th downstroke has to overcome. If you left foot is attached to the pedal however, you can actually remove that resistance by pulling up. Now all the effort in your right foot's downstroke is going toward moving the bicycle, and not pushing your left leg.

That alone makes your pedaling more efficient. You can choose to lift even more with your left leg to get an even more efficient stroke. Your still going to have a lot more power in the downstroke, but it's just wrong to say that lifting up the pedals does not help.

Have you actually used clipless pedals for any length of time?

I had months of holding up in the high 80's and now I hit 95? I could never hit 120 and now I did? One good day? I don't think so. The difference between straps and clipless in what you mentioned is also that the shoes are stiff and solid. It IS different. I have a Triathlon next thursday so no more hard rides till after, and I will post my stats till I'm blue in the face.

People think this, but it's not the case. It's true you need to use muscular effort to lift your left leg. However you can either use the muscles on your left leg to pull it up, or use the muscles on your right leg to push it up. As long as the left leg isn't actively pushing down, there's no reason to claim one way is more efficient than the other.

Not true. As long as your foot is even touching the pedal, there is some pressure on it. Of course pulling up is impossible with platforms, and that's why clipless is better in this regard.

It takes some practice to get good at timing the "pulling up" part, and I think I'm getting better at it, though it's probably nearly impossible to quantify while I'm riding. It was sort of an epiphany when I realized that pedaling in clipless pedals is really quite a different thing than pedaling on platforms.

That's true, but you missed my point. If the left leg is passively resting on the pedal, not actively pushing down. then the work of lifting it can be done by the right leg pushing the right pedal, and it's no more difficult than pulling up. It's the same as the way it takes the same effort to lift something whether you pick it up with your hands, or hoist it with a rope and pulley. And as alanbikehouston pointed out, pros don't pull up, at least on the trainer in the lab.

Clipless, toe-clips, platforms.
It's all a matter of taste.

Clipless tastes like chicken.

I moved to clipless a couple weeks ago, and I am beginning to really like them.

I have combo pedals by Shimano, clipless on one side, platform on the other.

It's nice to be able to jump on with any shoes, or flip them if you are in slow, heavy traffic.

That being said, I seldom ride without being clipped in, and am becoming pretty good at only unclipping one pedal when stopped.

Give them a little more time.

Not in my case either. Clipless as defacto rehab. Of course I don't climb in too high a gear for hours.

Badly adjusted cleats are bad for the knees. That is not the same as clipless being bad for the knees. I call BS on that generalization.

That doesn't make any sense to me - if I am already using all my muscle strength to push down to propel the bike forward with my right leg, where do I get the extra strength to lift the left leg. The weight of the left leg is then effectively pushing against my forward motion by requiring some of the work from my right leg to lift it up. On the other hand, if I lift my left leg with my hamstrings (that is why they are there after all) then all the work of my right leg can go into moving the bike forward.

One leg drills or riding with special cranks that allow each leg to operate independantly will show that you can and do pull up with the opposite leg. In general practive this is highly dependant on cadence. The quadraceps are stronger and react faster than the hamstrings, epecially in untrained riders. At high cadences, where most of those lab tests are done, the hamstrings are not able to balance the quads and so there isn't much "pull up" effect. At low cadences, like when climbing a hill, the hamstrings play a much larger role. I can pedal with no pushing at all, just pulling up although it isn't very efficient. In practice I have to rachet down my shoes and tighten the velco straps to keep from pulling out on climbs and when I ride my commuter that has platforms my feet do sometimes slip off the pedals on the upstroke so that pretty much convinces me.

Folks really don't need clipless if they are not going to regularly spin more than 90 rpms, attack hills with gusto or sprint all out. One recent ride with platforms convinced me that I needed to dumb down my riding too much for my liking to stay on the pedals. FWIW, I'm a slightly chubby accountant - def not a pro or wannabe. YMMV

Your left leg rises on every pedal stroke. Something has to make it rise. That something can be the left leg muscles or the right leg muscles. From an energy expenditure point of view it doesn't matter - it's the same amount of work. And in fact as you yourself explain below, at high cadence it has to be the right leg pushing down that lifts your left leg, since the left hamstrings aren't fast enough to keep up with the pedal revolutions.


That is probably true, and even clipless pedal bashers acknowledge they may help here, but there are also lots of people who ride up steep slopes with platforms - take bmx riders for instance, or half-pipe tricksters.

When I used to ride clipless and I would swap them for platforms in winter boot weather, I would notice that too, for the first day or two, and then it goes away. In fact, I noticed it happened as the pedal goes over the top, not halfway up as you would expect if you are pulling up. So I concluded it was more an effect of leg momentum, and clipless making you lazy - you're used to the pedal dragging your foot over the top so you forget to actually keep your foot in contact with the pedal.

For me the bottom line is that I started using clipless around 2004 and like everybody else, I bought into the hype and the claims and I thought - wow, this is great, I feel so much faster and more in control and this must be so much more efficient. And then when I took clipless pedals off my bikes after a couple of years, and I discovered that I didn't suddenly slow down, or have to work harder, or lose my ability to ride uphill, I realized that clipless hadn't actually done much for my riding after all. The benefits are hugely overstated. In racing and very steep uphills, they offer a worthwhile, but still quite small advantage.