Transitioning to Clipless
09-06-14 | 08:39 AM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 0
From: Nanaimo, BC
Bikes: 1997 Kona Hahana Race Light, 2010 Surly LHT(deceased), 1999 Rocky Mountain Turbo
[MENTION=126145]meanwhile[/MENTION]
Have you never been accustomed to something and then changed it only to try to do it the old way?
Such as driving a car with a column shifter then driving a car with floor shifter.
Have you never been accustomed to something and then changed it only to try to do it the old way?
Such as driving a car with a column shifter then driving a car with floor shifter.
Last edited by joeyduck; 09-06-14 at 08:48 AM.
09-06-14 | 02:04 PM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 2
From: Rural Minnesota
@meanwhile
Have you never been accustomed to something and then changed it only to try to do it the old way?
Such as driving a car with a column shifter then driving a car with floor shifter.
Have you never been accustomed to something and then changed it only to try to do it the old way?
Such as driving a car with a column shifter then driving a car with floor shifter.
09-06-14 | 09:45 PM
#28
Cathedral City, CA
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,504
Likes: 2
From: Cathedral City, CA
Bikes: 2016 RITCHEY BreakAway (full Chorus 11), 2005 Ritchey BreakAway (full Chorus 11, STOLEN), 2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara mountain bike (sold), 2004 Giant TRC 2 road bike (sold)
Regarding "proper adjustment", I found that I was messing with the adjustment screw too much on the original set of clipless pedals I had. Crank Bros. Quattros and later BeBops fixed that as they have no adjustment. There's nothing to mess with when there's nothing to mess with...
09-06-14 | 11:10 PM
#29
bill nyecycles
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,333
Likes: 359
From: Houston TX
My recessed cleat shoes crunch n the sidewalk and pavement too.
09-07-14 | 06:48 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 2
From: Rural Minnesota
Regarding "proper adjustment", I found that I was messing with the adjustment screw too much on the original set of clipless pedals I had. Crank Bros. Quattros and later BeBops fixed that as they have no adjustment. There's nothing to mess with when there's nothing to mess with...
09-07-14 | 10:43 AM
#31
Cathedral City, CA
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,504
Likes: 2
From: Cathedral City, CA
Bikes: 2016 RITCHEY BreakAway (full Chorus 11), 2005 Ritchey BreakAway (full Chorus 11, STOLEN), 2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara mountain bike (sold), 2004 Giant TRC 2 road bike (sold)
I just like the consistency. Unless they are going bad, they work the same way every time. Quattros were discontinued some years back. The next closest would be the Candy as it has a bit of a platform, albeit smaller than the Quattro.
An additional consideration for me is that I need to unclip with an inward motion. Very few pedals support that. All Crank Bros. pedals do, as well as the BeBops.
An additional consideration for me is that I need to unclip with an inward motion. Very few pedals support that. All Crank Bros. pedals do, as well as the BeBops.
09-08-14 | 08:48 AM
#32
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,138
Likes: 6,194
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Are you sure about that? I've been unclipping inward since I started using clipless in the mid 90s and have never had a problem with it. I've used almost exclusively Shimano but I've also use some Wellgo and Xpedo as well as old Onzas. Never had a problem with it no matter which cleat (multi-release or single release) I used.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Why did you have to screw up a perfect street pedal set up for damn clipless!!!!!!
09-08-14 | 12:12 PM
#34
RythmRider
Now please excuse me for a moment:
.
Nightshade, everyone has a right to his/her opinion but you are a panic monger when it comes to clipless. I've read your previous rants on the subject, including your descriptions of your "clipless" crash and your berating of riders and bike shop mechanics for ever even suggesting that there might actually be benefits to clipless pedals. Your comments about being locked to the bike, unable to escape the inevitable doom that befalls all clipless riders, show a lack of knowledge about clipless systems and are absolutely incorrect. I believe in one of your previous posts, you stated that you tried them once and that being "locked to the bike" caused you injury in a crash. Maybe you should have consulted one of those bike shop mechanics and learned to adjust your pedal retention . . . just a thought.
While I have not used every clipless system, with the proper selection and setup of an SPD clipless system You Are Not Locked to the Bike and can easily and instictively release in any direction except straight forward and straight back. The majority of individuals I have met with complaints about SPD being difficult to clip in or out have been using the outdated single release cleats (which are rapidly disappearing) and have had the pedal retention set way too high for their style of riding. Another common problem is not knowing where to place your cleats in relation to your foot and pedal. It takes about 15 minutes to educate them and make the proper adjustments. Every single person I have helped get properly set up has ended up liking clipless and failed clip-outs drop to zero.
I ride both with and without clipping in and can tell you that there is no additional risk from being clipped in when your cleats and pedals are properly adjusted. In some circumstances safety is enhanced by the aid in keeping your feet centered on the pedals. You can certainly ride without clipping in and I do so frequently. I personally don't think I get much performance benefit by clipping in except on sprints and steep hills. IMHO I do get some comfort, security and safety benefits so I choose to use them. If you don't . . . ride on my friend . . . but don't feed everyone inaccurate information about clipless being some kind of death trap.
Now please excuse me for a moment:
.
Nightshade, everyone has a right to his/her opinion but you are a panic monger when it comes to clipless. I've read your previous rants on the subject, including your descriptions of your "clipless" crash and your berating of riders and bike shop mechanics for ever even suggesting that there might actually be benefits to clipless pedals. Your comments about being locked to the bike, unable to escape the inevitable doom that befalls all clipless riders, show a lack of knowledge about clipless systems and are absolutely incorrect. I believe in one of your previous posts, you stated that you tried them once and that being "locked to the bike" caused you injury in a crash. Maybe you should have consulted one of those bike shop mechanics and learned to adjust your pedal retention . . . just a thought.
While I have not used every clipless system, with the proper selection and setup of an SPD clipless system You Are Not Locked to the Bike and can easily and instictively release in any direction except straight forward and straight back. The majority of individuals I have met with complaints about SPD being difficult to clip in or out have been using the outdated single release cleats (which are rapidly disappearing) and have had the pedal retention set way too high for their style of riding. Another common problem is not knowing where to place your cleats in relation to your foot and pedal. It takes about 15 minutes to educate them and make the proper adjustments. Every single person I have helped get properly set up has ended up liking clipless and failed clip-outs drop to zero.
I ride both with and without clipping in and can tell you that there is no additional risk from being clipped in when your cleats and pedals are properly adjusted. In some circumstances safety is enhanced by the aid in keeping your feet centered on the pedals. You can certainly ride without clipping in and I do so frequently. I personally don't think I get much performance benefit by clipping in except on sprints and steep hills. IMHO I do get some comfort, security and safety benefits so I choose to use them. If you don't . . . ride on my friend . . . but don't feed everyone inaccurate information about clipless being some kind of death trap.
Maybe I can save a newbie rider from making the mistake of listening to all the folks that ride clipless that live in denial of the danger of clipless.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
09-08-14 | 12:23 PM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 7,631
Likes: 5
Allow me to respectfully disagree with your POV. I have my own POV and will politely express it a often as I please.
Maybe I can save a newbie rider from making the mistake of listening to all the folks that ride clipless that live in denial of the danger of clipless.
Maybe I can save a newbie rider from making the mistake of listening to all the folks that ride clipless that live in denial of the danger of clipless.
09-08-14 | 12:29 PM
#36
Yes, in my early days of riding which convinced me they were the spawn of the devil.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
09-08-14 | 12:33 PM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 0
From: Nanaimo, BC
Bikes: 1997 Kona Hahana Race Light, 2010 Surly LHT(deceased), 1999 Rocky Mountain Turbo
Allow me to respectfully disagree with your POV. I have my own POV and will politely express it a often as I please.
Maybe I can save a newbie rider from making the mistake of listening to all the folks that ride clipless that live in denial of the danger of clipless.
Maybe I can save a newbie rider from making the mistake of listening to all the folks that ride clipless that live in denial of the danger of clipless.
We all stumble before we walk, for most everyone clipless is not an issue. Many people use it everyday without consequence.
I have been injured more from normal pedals striking my shins or calfs (calves) than clipless. Or from my foot slipping off my pedal and loosing control of my bike.
Let me check my clipless injuries. I think I must have fallen over once. But I honestly do not remember even doing that, I just assume I must have at some point. I do not recall any other instances of injury or death from clipless.
09-08-14 | 12:38 PM
#38
Lets us check the numbers based on your comment: "Maybe I can save" versus "all the folks". You had a bad experience, fair enough.
We all stumble before we walk, for most everyone clipless is not an issue. Many people use it everyday without consequence.
I have been injured more from normal pedals striking my shins or calfs (calves) than clipless. Or from my foot slipping off my pedal and loosing control of my bike.
Let me check my clipless injuries. I think I must have fallen over once. But I honestly do not remember even doing that, I just assume I must have at some point. I do not recall any other instances of injury or death from clipless.
We all stumble before we walk, for most everyone clipless is not an issue. Many people use it everyday without consequence.
I have been injured more from normal pedals striking my shins or calfs (calves) than clipless. Or from my foot slipping off my pedal and loosing control of my bike.
Let me check my clipless injuries. I think I must have fallen over once. But I honestly do not remember even doing that, I just assume I must have at some point. I do not recall any other instances of injury or death from clipless.
Jersey coroner says foot stuck in clipless pedal led to cyclist's death | road.cc
https://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...inquest-113617
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/qu...pose-the-rider
https://www.bikejames.com/strength/fl...ont-let-it-go/
https://www.mountainbikesapart.com/bi...ipless-pedals/
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
Last edited by Nightshade; 09-08-14 at 12:48 PM.
09-08-14 | 12:45 PM
#39
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,676
Likes: 2,642
From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
One death due to clipless is one death to many..........
Jersey coroner says foot stuck in clipless pedal led to cyclist's death | road.cc
Jersey coroner says foot stuck in clipless pedal led to cyclist's death | road.cc
09-08-14 | 12:57 PM
#40
Green lights for all
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Ohio, Germany, Florida, West Virginia, and then Georgia now
Bikes: Fuji Team SL 20 spd, Nishiki, Mercian 12 spd. Alan 10 spd, Frejus, Bauer, Motobecane, Schwinn, JC Higgins 3 spd, Columbia coaster brake, Magna BMX
Using flat platforms and wide straps like Power Grips gives one the premium option of adjusting one's feet on the pedal's nice big flat surface. Yes, it's good to have the feet secured to the pedal. However, with any type of cleatz your feet are locked into one position, right? Also, while having the skill to pedal in "circles" it's been proven there is very little if any real advantageous force being actually applied on the upstroke side. But, standing up on an uphill climb does seem to be better if the feet are tied to the pedals.
Here is a great report for your open-minded consideration: https://www.bikejames.com/strength/th...h-flat-pedals/
https://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/...withLinks2.pdf
By the way I use C R O C K S on 186 mile brevets in one day and I have no issues about soft footgear. Because I did one brevet with the left foot using SPDs and the right using a Crock. I carried the other SPD sandal along, just in case. Result, my right foot felt sooo bad with the Crock. Not!
This year I have worn Crocks for 4,202 miles... so far and without any desires to go back to stiff soles clipped in.
Just to be open minded I will flip the two-sided pedals over (now that I've fully adjusted to flat pedals) and wear my old spd sandals for a while and see if they feel a lot better than the soft ones on a 300k brevet.
Here is a great report for your open-minded consideration: https://www.bikejames.com/strength/th...h-flat-pedals/
https://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/...withLinks2.pdf
By the way I use C R O C K S on 186 mile brevets in one day and I have no issues about soft footgear. Because I did one brevet with the left foot using SPDs and the right using a Crock. I carried the other SPD sandal along, just in case. Result, my right foot felt sooo bad with the Crock. Not!
This year I have worn Crocks for 4,202 miles... so far and without any desires to go back to stiff soles clipped in.
Just to be open minded I will flip the two-sided pedals over (now that I've fully adjusted to flat pedals) and wear my old spd sandals for a while and see if they feel a lot better than the soft ones on a 300k brevet.
09-08-14 | 01:13 PM
#41
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,138
Likes: 6,194
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
The same could be said about riding a bicycle at all...600+ people killed per year riding bikes. Or driving cars...30,000+ deaths per year. Or just plain walking...4000+
Maybe we should stop selling shoes
I work with a mechanic at my local co-op who had almost the same injury as described in this post. He slide sideways on ice, put his foot down to catch himself, hit a patch of dry pavement and folded his leg under him. This happened in February and he is just off crutches now after going through 4 surgeries and an infection. He still wears a compression sock and has a noticeable limp. His pedal of choice? Platforms.
Perhaps he should have used clipless. They would have kept him from putting his foot down.
You are entitled to your opinion. Thousands upon thousands of clipless users have figured out how to use clipless pedals without dying and even find them to be a benefit.
Maybe we should stop selling shoes
Perhaps he should have used clipless. They would have kept him from putting his foot down.
You are entitled to your opinion. Thousands upon thousands of clipless users have figured out how to use clipless pedals without dying and even find them to be a benefit.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
09-08-14 | 01:33 PM
#43
Seņor Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,070
Likes: 306
clipless are much safer
safer than platforms because it reduces or eliminates the potential of a foot accidentally coming off
and allows better control of the bike in critical situations
safer than clips and straps
and safer than powergrips
because release is easy and consistent
and never snags or changes while riding
nightshade has the right to express his opinions
that clipless are dangerous
and that non steel bikes are dangerous
and that our flat planet earth is the centre of the known universe
he has the right to be wrong
lets all just smile and roll our eyes
like i used to do do when my senile aunt would tell me
about the talking bear she took out for a walk yesterday
safer than platforms because it reduces or eliminates the potential of a foot accidentally coming off
and allows better control of the bike in critical situations
safer than clips and straps
and safer than powergrips
because release is easy and consistent
and never snags or changes while riding
nightshade has the right to express his opinions
that clipless are dangerous
and that non steel bikes are dangerous
and that our flat planet earth is the centre of the known universe
he has the right to be wrong
lets all just smile and roll our eyes
like i used to do do when my senile aunt would tell me
about the talking bear she took out for a walk yesterday
09-08-14 | 03:13 PM
#46
Cathedral City, CA
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,504
Likes: 2
From: Cathedral City, CA
Bikes: 2016 RITCHEY BreakAway (full Chorus 11), 2005 Ritchey BreakAway (full Chorus 11, STOLEN), 2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara mountain bike (sold), 2004 Giant TRC 2 road bike (sold)
Are you sure about that? I've been unclipping inward since I started using clipless in the mid 90s and have never had a problem with it. I've used almost exclusively Shimano but I've also use some Wellgo and Xpedo as well as old Onzas. Never had a problem with it no matter which cleat (multi-release or single release) I used.
Incidently, my original motivation was this:
When I got back into riding I went to various shops when I was traveling for business. Early on, I was riding a mountain bike and decided put some real acceleration into it. One foot slipped off the pedal and as everyone knows, it whacks the back of your leg about halfway between your ankle and calf. The visible bruising took 3 to 4 weeks to go away. The lump underneath took maybe 6 months.
Last edited by flatlander_48; 09-08-14 at 03:24 PM.
09-08-14 | 03:20 PM
#47
Seņor Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,070
Likes: 306
Bi-direction release AND no tension adjustment. Narrows the field down considerably. It's been 4-5 years since I last looked (when I found the BeBops). As I remember, the only other one was Speedplay Frogs. There was a molded lump that prevented inward motion. File that off and you could rotate inward. Unfortunately that voided the warranty as I was told by a Speedplay person.
shimano pedals have always allowed inward release
as do all other spd compatible pedals
as does every road pedal I have tried
ironically
crank bros
and i think the time pedals they share cleats with
are the only design that have a directional cleat
so depending on which side you mount which cleat
it might be easier or harder to unclip in one direction or the other
09-08-14 | 03:39 PM
#48
Cathedral City, CA
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,504
Likes: 2
From: Cathedral City, CA
Bikes: 2016 RITCHEY BreakAway (full Chorus 11), 2005 Ritchey BreakAway (full Chorus 11, STOLEN), 2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara mountain bike (sold), 2004 Giant TRC 2 road bike (sold)
#28 and #31 . Going from memory as it has been some time since I rode the Quattros, swapping the Crank Bros. cleats side-to-side changed the rotation angle required to unclip. I don't think the effort required changed significantly either way. I think it was intended to prevent random unclipping for people who have more foot movement in their pedalling.
09-08-14 | 04:02 PM
#49
Mad bike riding scientist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,138
Likes: 6,194
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Bi-direction release AND no tension adjustment. Narrows the field down considerably. It's been 4-5 years since I last looked (when I found the BeBops). As I remember, the only other one was Speedplay Frogs. There was a molded lump that prevented inward motion. File that off and you could rotate inward. Unfortunately that voided the warranty as I was told by a Speedplay person.
Tension adjustment is one of those things that seldom gets moved once the pedals are installed. I don't usually mess with the tension after the pedals are on the bike.
One of the things you could do with the old Onza pedals (and you can probably do it with Shimano) is to swap your cleats from one foot to the other when the cleat starts to get sticky. It still didn't matter whether or not you rotate inward or outward but you could get more wear out of the cleat.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 09-08-14 at 04:08 PM.
