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Transitioning to Clipless

Old 09-08-14, 07:39 PM
  #51  
Wilfred Laurier
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Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
#28 and #31 . Going from memory as it has been some time since I rode the Quattros, swapping the Crank Bros. cleats side-to-side changed the rotation angle required to unclip. I don't think the effort required changed significantly either way. I think it was intended to prevent random unclipping for people who have more foot movement in their pedalling.
i have never ridden with them
but like you said
swapping the cleats would change them from being
easy release out
to easy release in
and by easy
i mean less rotation required

however
it seems to me that
the tension adjustment on most pedals
is only ever a plus
i cannot imagine why one would not want it
even if they never adjust
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Old 09-08-14, 09:24 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
however
it seems to me that
the tension adjustment on most pedals
is only ever a plus
i cannot imagine why one would not want it
even if they never adjust
Not having adjustment allows a lighter pedal for one thing. I suspect that the stack height might be lowered also. EggBeaters and their variants are not adjustable. Speedplays are not adjustable. I would assume that the people put enough thought and testing into the design to reach a suitable tension value. From my experience with the Quattros, I think they got it right.

Plus, anytime you have Mechanism, you have a potential failure point. Less Mechanism = Fewer Points of Failure
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Old 09-09-14, 08:15 AM
  #53  
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First I want to say that any time someone is killed or severely injured it is a tragedy and my sympathy to the families involved.


Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
Allow me to respectfully disagree with your POV. I have my own POV and will politely express it a often as I please.

Maybe I can save a newbie rider from making the mistake of listening to all the folks that ride clipless that live in denial of the danger of clipless.
I appreciate your respectful disagreement and am a big believer in the value of civil debate. I also am known for expressing my opinions, so here goes.

Look at your evidence. Both cases of death involved individuals who were brand new to clipless systems. While I have no first hand knowledge of either case, both resemble the scenario of individuals who decide to go clipless without bothering to learn about the systems or how to properly set up the cleats and pedals. Nobody who has no experience with clipless should ever just slap on pedals and shoes and head out into traffic or into rough terrain. If someone who had never ridden a bike before jumped on a Worksman bike and headed out into traffic only to grab too much front brake at a panic stop, launching himself over the handlebars and under the wheels of a truck, would you be saying "One death on a Worksman bicycle is one too many"? No, you'd be saying the rider should have taken the time to learn how to use his bike properly and practiced in a low risk setting before trying it in traffic. No different with clipless or any other piece of equipment. Even changing from flatbars to drops, a rider should practice shifting and braking before trusting his reflexes in traffic. If the individuals in the cases you cite had that much trouble clipping out, then there is a high probability that their pedal retention was set way too high. It is also possible that they were using single release cleats (which require a specific movement to clip out) without the requisite instruction and practice. As far as I'm concerned, Shimano should do away with single release cleats and replace them all with multi-release versions. I'm guessing that in your own limited experience, you didn't bother to learn how to properly set up and use your clipless pedals before heading out as you too state that you were "locked to the bike" and couldn't clip out. People have been injured or killed through improper use and maladjustment of unfamiliar equipment since the dawn of mechanization.

That brings up a second point. You yourself state that your only experience was early in your cycling. Well, like everything else, clipless technology has evolved. Shimano has improved its retention system and made adjustments easier, has gone to multi-release cleats, and more recently introduced its Click'R system of pedals aimed specifically at clipless beginners with even easier releases. There are also many other clipless systems out there and you have tried only one, when you were less experienced, a number of years ago. Hardly makes you an expert to indict all clipless systems ever invented as "the devil's spawn".

I'm not saying that there isn't a risk to benefit ratio that should be considered, there is for everything, including flat pedals, toe straps, clips, bikes themselves, ad infinitum. I'm also not saying that any individual has to or even should use clipless, it is a personal choice based on your needs, desires and preferences. What I am saying is that blanket statements about all clipless systems being "the devil's spawn" that will inevitably result in death or dismemberment is absolutely incorrect and your assertion that anyone who uses or even suggests clipless is a fool or a racerboy wannabe is unwarranted.

Anyone considering going clipless should do some research to find out which system suits their riding style and needs the best. Read the instructions and seek guidance from someone experienced with the system. Take the time to properly adjust any retention and float settings (I suggest starting with very light retention and go up if necessary) and to try clipping in and out until you get the settings and cleat placement so that clip-ins and outs are smooth and intuitive (with good information and someone experienced helping, it should take less than 30 minutes to set everything up from box to ride ready with SPD). Do any trial and error testing of your settings and your initial practice in a low risk environment. If you have things set up correctly, the learning curve will be very short.

The other three links Nightshade provided are all opinion pieces supported with anecdotal evidence and they are what they are, opinions (but it's on the internet so it must be true). I suspect that the one that talks about clipless causing pain in his knees, feet and ankles does not understand fitting or adjustment and that his cleats were not set up properly. I initially had some foot and knee pain when I went to SPD but ten minutes with someone who knew what he was doing, resulted in cleat repositioning and decreasing the release tension to allow more float solving the problem and I've had zero pain ever since.

Nightshade, if you are ever in NW MN and want to learn how to set up and use modern SPD pedals properly, I'd be glad to show you that once set correctly SPDs only assist in foot positioning on the pedals and DO NOT LOCK YOU TO THE BIKE and that they can be used safely even in traffic or MTBing.

Last edited by GravelMN; 09-09-14 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 09-09-14, 10:32 AM
  #54  
achoo
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Originally Posted by GravelMN View Post
...

Nightshade, if you are ever in NW MN and want to learn how to set up and use modern SPD pedals properly, I'd be glad to show you that once set correctly SPDs only assist in foot positioning on the pedals and DO NOT LOCK YOU TO THE BIKE and that they can be used safely even in traffic or MTBing.
My dad used to tell me, usually when we were out in the garage trying to make or fix something, "A poor mechanic always blames his tools."

If my thumb gets mashed by a hammer, it's not the hammer's fault.

And who around here is blaming the tools?
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Old 09-09-14, 11:21 AM
  #55  
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So, do you 'Transition' into a swimming pool, when it's Hot outside?
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Old 09-14-14, 05:54 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by GravelMN View Post
I'm not saying that there isn't a risk to benefit ratio that should be considered, there is for everything, including flat pedals, toe straps, clips, bikes themselves, ad infinitum. I'm also not saying that any individual has to or even should use clipless, it is a personal choice based on your needs, desires and preferences. What I am saying is that blanket statements about all clipless systems being "the devil's spawn" that will inevitably result in death or dismemberment is absolutely incorrect and your assertion that anyone who uses or even suggests clipless is a fool or a racerboy wannabe is unwarranted.
Spot on in its entirety, particularly this paragraph.
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Old 09-14-14, 02:45 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Poor Nightshade. He's simply convinced that even thinking about clipless pedals is going to result in death and dismemberment. I have fresh scabs on my knees, a bruised knee, bruised shoulder and a pretty good headache from a crash just this weekend. I caught a lip on my mountain bike and crashed on a pretty good downhill. I came completely off the bike and landed a good body length away from the bike (about 6'). My feet came out of the pedals before the bike hit the ground. I had several close calls over the rest of the weekend (60 mile bikepacking trip) and not once did I think about getting my feet out of the pedals.

Don't listen to the (only) naysayer on the Forums, RhythmRider. In fact, at 20 mph on a gnarly downhill the last thing I want to think about is my feet coming off the pedals. Keep riding, you'll get used to them. And, if you really want to find out about how the pedals ork on the upstroke, go mountain biking and use them to clear a rock field. It'll make a believer out of you.
I can't imagine why he keeps at it. He's like some Flat Earth person...
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Old 09-14-14, 04:03 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
I can't imagine why he keeps at it. He's like some Flat Earth person...
Your second sentence answers your first question.
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Old 09-14-14, 04:07 PM
  #59  
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I guess you're right.

Silly me.
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