wolfchild

There are plenty of people in this world who start their own businesses, design their own schedules, become their own boss and end up doing what they enjoy doing. Many people turn their hobbies into business and they end up making money and enjoying it at the same time.
Maybe your bubble that you live in is dark and depressing but it's not like that for everybody.

Dahon.Steve

Thanks. I didn't look at that post. I can work from home but it's like asking for a HUGE favor at work. Plus, I do need the copier which create documents into PDF. Software tends to move slower too.

Machka 

+1

Even working for organisations, many of us have at least some freedom to choose our jobs and design our own schedules.


I'll also add that many people want to work full-time in their particular field. They've chosen that field, they've trained in that field, and they have a sense of achievement and accomplishment when they work in that field.

The example of a doctor was mentioned earlier. Chances are, if a doctor has made it through 7 years of medical school + internships etc. etc. ... and if that doctor still wants to be a doctor, it is because he/she enjoys the field for the most part. There will, of course, be good days and bad days, but generally speaking the doctor is probably not daydreaming about picking up a job at the local 7-11.

Plus ... tp mentioned something about variety and diversity earlier (Post 17) as a reason for his dual job idea. Again with the example of the doctors, I know that some doctors work entirely at one practice. I presume that's their choice for the moment. Others split their time between 2 or more practices ... sometimes quite different practices. Others work at a practice part-time and do research the rest of the time. Some can take leave from their practice to do a term with organisations like Doctors without Borders. There can be quite a bit of room for variety within a career.

And also ... tp mentions above "performing whatever forms of work they please, without having to fit into culturally normative job descriptions and occupational structures". Well, I don't know about most people, but personally, when I'm looking for work, I apply for jobs which have a job description and occupational structure that suits me. I look over the duties, responsibilities, expectations, and if I think I might like to do that, I apply for the job. If I read it over and think that I probably would not like to do that, I don't apply for that job. Then when I get the job, I hope that it will be pretty close to what was advertised.

Machka 

I think the whole working from home thing will develop ... but slowly and gradually.


One of the things I have been pleased about with my current uni course is that I was able to work in a group from home. Not pleased about the group work ... but pleased that I didn't have to make time to be in the same room with everyone. We were able to work on the project from our own individual computers, accessing a central repository, and communicating via email.

Perhaps if university students are able to do that, and get used to doing that, then the next wave of employees entering the workforce might be able to encourage a move in that direction. Slowly and gradually, it might become "normal" for a significant portion of the workforce to work from home at least some of the time.

Dahon.Steve

This is the problem.

People can't live next to the office because the cost of renting skyrockets the closer you get to the city. I don't know if there's an answer to this question because good paying and high paying jobs allow tenants to afford more and landowners take advantage of this.

One solution is to build up and force developers to construct new affordable rentals or condos. However, in 10 years those same luxury condos will be worth much more so you can never have low income housing for too long even with new construction.

It seems the only time you can have affordable rentals is if the neighborhood is in shambles or 40 miles away from the jobs!

I-Like-To-Bike

Presumably, these people are not spending their time sitting under shade trees waiting for good ideas to fall down, let alone waiting for someone to give them job offers that meet their priority for leisurely schedules and requirement to only work at jobs or do tasks that please them.

Roody

What about rent control? It seemed to work in NYC for a time, but landlord interest groups managed to get it removed for the most part.

Another proposed solution was to remov height controls on new construction in big cities. Maybe if developers could build as high as they want to, it would remove the artificial scarcity of apartments that leads to exorbitant rents. (I don't know if that's an issue in your area, but it is in some cities, especially along the west coast.)

Dahon.Steve

You can't get a rent controlled apartment in New York City today unless you lived in the apartment since 1971. Those who have rent stabalized apartments are often paying enough to afford a mortgage in certain parts of New Jersey! I never understood how families can afford to pay $2,500 dollars or more for an apartment when they can afford a home!

Dave Cutter

Everybody loves a romantic... and a dreamer. But those dreams seem a little more like drug enhanced imaginations. Plus your remembrances... are a little less than historically accurate.

I've spent a few decades here on this planet and have read a bit about it's history, governments, traditions, and peoples. Those who advocate climate change based government know full well that billions must die in order to achieve their goals. Apparently you've missed a few of the meetings... or you would know that.

In the entire history of mankind no "options other than violent conflict" have ever produced a lasting agreement between nations.

Roody

Personally, I would rather rent an apartment in the city than own a house in the suburbs. A lot of people would, explaining at least part of the difference in payment amounts.

Roody

That's an insanely dark worldview. But I'm not going to argue further, knowing that this is a dogmatically held belief of yours.

I-Like-To-Bike

But the commute, the commute to the Apple! Oh the horror!

Dave Cutter

You think that is "insanely dark". Then you know nothing of world history.

Machka 

Just adding a bit of light and happiness to the thread ... It's hard to be too dark and depressing in the spring.

tandempower

You have to stop thinking in terms of humans having to die for nature to survive. Instead of assuming that humans and nature are natural enemies, realize that human have evolved with the rest of nature and are well-suited to prospering together with the rest of nature, if we would just learn how to utilize it less deleteriously.

There are many layers to happiness. One is accepting life as it is and as it comes. Another is addressing the little problems of life with an effective problem-solving attitude so that you don't get discouraged by things that are easily fixable. A third, which you seem to eschew and resent in others, is to take on responsibility to steward nature and society to improve it for the future. In democracy, individuals don't assume we can dictate how others will think and act but we can reason with them about how they should and how the ways in which they do will cause the consequences that they will.

I don't even believe in the possibility of 'upheaval.' That said, I also don't see culture as some kind of dictatorial structure, the way many people seem to. I see possibilities that go largely ignored because people allow their minds to fall into the habit of accepting normative patterns without remembering that the reality of actual possibilities is broader than what most people allow their minds to imagine. More people could design their own schedules more creatively, without losing productivity and possibly gaining productivity, but mostly we avoid doing so because it's more convenient to follow established patterns because of bureaucratic reasons, paperwork, insurance, normative expectations, etc. It's unfortunate that so many anti-innovation social institutions like these have evolved, but in some ways they protect us from the emergence of widespread social insanity at the cost of blocking choices and innovations that would actually improve the sanity of the world.

Right, and also hopefully people can learn to see through biases that make things that aren't really dark and depressing appear that way. Combining multiple jobs at different 'class' levels would be the opposite of dark and depressing. It would mean an end to a tradition of dividing labor in ways that obstruct humans' natural ability to perform varied and interesting work while also enjoying the mundane monotony of other forms of work without either taking up so much time and attention as to affect the person negatively.

You shouldn't have to start your own business to exercise some self-determination in your work.

And this freedom could be expanded without destroying the world or the economy.

Educational institutions charge fees that reflect the earnings potential of professionals after they graduate. So medical school costs as much as it can based on students taking loans and repaying them working full time as a doctor. This practically prevents doctors from working part time as doctors until they've repaid loans. In order to give people more freedom to choose how much they want to work, educational costs should be based on lower earnings expectations; not a convenient fact for educational institutions.

Living free means going beyond trying to escape necessary work responsibilities. First we choose how we want to live and then we take responsibility for how to achieve that life. Too many people take that responsibility by hiring out work instead of doing it themselves. Imagine hiring a second doctor to your practice so you have more time to do housework instead of hiring out the housework so you have more time to cash in on being a doctor. That model is offensive to some people because they just love the class-hierarchical model of hiring out lower level work to subordinates.

For once we agree on something.

wahoonc

That is pretty... we are going the other way.

Aaron

RPK79

Are you for real? Every time I read one of your posts I'm amazed that you actually exist somewhere out there. Somewhere WAY out there.

Roody

Another uncool ad hom comment. Do you really have no ideas of your own to contribute? Attacking somebody else doesn't tell us anything other than that you are being rude and unpleasant, in keeping with your moronic sig line.

What do you think of the traffic situation? Do you see bikes and carfree living as part of the solution? Or do you have other ideas for solving it, whether in China or closer to home? (If you really don't have any ideas, feel free to move along to another thread.)

RPK79

I contributed an idea earlier in this thread thank you very much. I would have gone through his posts and addressed them line by line, but I'm trying to be nice about it. Much like your moronic sig line he is thinking outside the cage. Way outside the cage.

kickstart

Or perhaps it's the arrogance suggesting that "lower level work" is so irrelevant that its ok to deny it to the people who depend on it for their livelihood.

tandempower

Funny, I was just reading through this list of conservation & environment quotes from Ronald Reagan and thinking how much validity there was in them.
Our Top 9 Ronald Reagan quotes on the environment

But I don't hate peace loving hippies or conservative rich people, or anyone else. Why do you have to post hate against hippies here? Trying to start a flame war?
You imply that people who do 'lower level work' couldn't do anything else if their jobs got taken by other people or machines or otherwise became redundant.

Also, you could take the ad hom element out of your post by just stating your point instead of mentioning arrogance. Calling someone arrogant is always provocative. You shouldn't do it unless they are intentionally using arrogant language, not just because you find the implications of their honestly-expressed thoughts 'arrogant.'

Machka 

1) We are currently free to combine multiple jobs at different 'class' levels if we want. But strangely people aren't flocking to do so ... because they don't want to. Or at least not on a long-term basis.

2) If we were to be required/forced to combine multiple jobs at different 'class' levels ... that's the dark and depressing, nightmarish, really bad futuristic sci-fi scenario.


Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I highly recommend it.

For example, I don't have the first clue how to dry-clean a suit jacket. But there's a place not far away which specialises in just that. I am perfectly happy taking a suit jacket to them to be dry-cleaned, and paying for a job well done.


What if you love being a doctor ... you thoroughly enjoy your work. Why on earth would you hire a second doctor so that you have more time to do housework? Makes no sense. Why on earth wouldn't you spend your time doing doctor stuff, which you enjoy, and hire a maid service instead? Make so much more sense.

Machka 

Very nice ... I love autumn. And I'd love to ride a road like that!

Machka 

Just remember folks ... every time you get on a bicycle, you're living car-free for that moment in time.

Go enjoy your beautiful spring/autumn weather and ride a bicycle.

kickstart

An arrogant person wouldn't even consider that maybe those who do "low level jobs" might just happen to like what they do, are good at it, and wouldn't want to be displaced to facilitate some harebrained scheme.