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Would a covered e-scooter be a car?

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Would a covered e-scooter be a car?

Old 12-04-18, 06:16 AM
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tandempower
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Would a covered e-scooter be a car?

I have heard various reports that e-scooters are growing less popular as the weather gets colder. This leads me to wonder whether it is possible to develop covered e-scooters and, if so, what would they look like? How would they work? E.g. how long would the wheelbase need to be to offset the top-heavy body? Would you end up with something like a Smart car if you tried to develop such an e-scooter? Or maybe something more like a BMW C1?
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Old 12-04-18, 06:20 AM
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You've seen this, I presume.

https://momentummag.com/swedish-inve...ding-solution/

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/p...-bicycle-car#/
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Old 12-04-18, 07:43 AM
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There are a lot of mini electric cars coming to market now. They're being used as rentals in Bermuda where rental cars had previously been disallowed due to congestion on the small island. The decent ones are still pretty expensive. More economical models are on a lot drawing boards, but haven't really come to reality yet. But surely they will. I have a friend who is developing small electrics for the Indian market and they have a target price of well under $10K.
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Old 12-04-18, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
There are a lot of mini electric cars coming to market now. They're being used as rentals in Bermuda where rental cars had previously been disallowed due to congestion on the small island. The decent ones are still pretty expensive. More economical models are on a lot drawing boards, but haven't really come to reality yet. But surely they will. I have a friend who is developing small electrics for the Indian market and they have a target price of well under $10K.
Will the Indian market require the safety features that are mandated to be installed on new cars before being sold in the U.S.? Can your friend's electric vehicle be driven/ridden faster than 15mph? Would it be street legal if sold in the U.S.? Does it provide any heat for driver/passengers?

Will it offer any features not found on readily available electric golf cars such as found here: https://www.ebay.com/rpp/motors-spec...ric-golf-carts

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 12-04-18 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 12-04-18, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Does the Indian market require the safety features that are mandated to be installed on new cars before being sold in the U.S.?
Of course not. That's one reason he's working in the Indian market. Although he also sees India as more desperately in need of smaller, cleaner vehicles. But I think it clear that such vehicles will ultimately come to western markets, at a higher price point of course.
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Old 12-04-18, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I have heard various reports that e-scooters are growing less popular as the weather gets colder. This leads me to wonder whether it is possible to develop covered e-scooters and, if so, what would they look like? How would they work? E.g. how long would the wheelbase need to be to offset the top-heavy body? Would you end up with something like a Smart car if you tried to develop such an e-scooter? Or maybe something more like a BMW C1?
To answer the title question: no, obviously not. A "covered" e-scooter would be an e-scooter (two in-line wheels, with steering and electric propulsion) on top of which has been placed some sort of thing amounting to a 'cover' for the rider.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to imagine what such a contraption could possibly look like, why anyone would want to develop such a contraption and, if they did, why anyone in her or his right mind would purchase such a useless object.

I think what you have in mind, and what certainly might appeal to you, is something more like this, below. Note the use of sustainable materials, electric motor/battery pack aside of course. Now, one would have to work on the 'footprint', perhaps narrowing the 'wheel'base, but still ... lots of potential for Living in a Sustainable World.
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Old 12-04-18, 10:46 AM
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Now that I think of it, a solution may be at hand!

A prototype pedal-less bicycle was developed a few years ago. This prototype presents a real opportunity! If we examine the photograph below, we can see that the wheel-size could easily be reduced to 'scooter' wheels, and a little platform created upon which the 'rider' could place her or his feet when moving along. That platform would also provide an attachment point for the electric motor/battery pack necessary to make this an "e-scooter", while still being narrow enough to allow the suspended 'rider' to 'Flintstone' the scooter along using her feet as an auxiliary power source. Alternatively, one could make use of a scooterized version of the Copenhagen wheel.

Thus we see that a narrow 'footprint' is retained, although of necessity we will have a slightly longer 'footprint' than that of current "e-scooters". The next challenge is to provide the rider with the necessary cover, as per the brief defined in the original post. I do not see this as insurmountable. What would be required is vertical extension of the rider-support superstructure, as you see it below, providing it with appropriate 'members' to support a canopy made, of course, of sustainable materials (and see more on this below). That vertical extension is anyway required because the smaller scooter wheel size necessarily lowers the rider; the support harness needs to be raised relative to ground so that the rider can achieve optimum leg extension for efficient auxiliary Flintstoning. The op, @tandempower, should not be averse to this vertical extension. He is on record here as being a proponent of vertical extension of living space, having suggested elsewhere that we should all of us be willing to live piled on top of one another so as to minimize the spread of habitations horizontally over the land.

Finally, I do not see any reason why the structures necessary for the construction of our covered "e-scooters" cannot be made from sustainable materials -- wood, bamboo, canvas cloth, and so on. The only metals necessary would be those required for bearings and for the electric propulsion system. I can see no downside here. I believe that if such a personal transportation device were designed, produced, and brought to market it would meet with instant and widespread acceptance.

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Old 12-04-18, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Of course not. That's one reason he's working in the Indian market. Although he also sees India as more desperately in need of smaller, cleaner vehicles. But I think it clear that such vehicles will ultimately come to western markets, at a higher price point of course.
Such vehicles are here already and are called golf cars and already sell for less than $10,000. Except for golf courses, parking lot shuttles and retirement communities, they are pretty much useless as a vehicle for daily transportation.
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Old 12-04-18, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Such vehicles are here already and are called golf cars and already sell for less than $10,000. Except for golf courses, parking lot shuttles and retirement communities, they are pretty much useless as a vehicle for daily transportation.
So you're suggesting we will see no further progress or change with the use of electric vehicles over the next 20 years?

Even the old school golf cart has expanded its horizons and is now much more popular in rural areas. Maybe you're right and we've reached a point of stasis. Nothing will change from here on. But I doubt it. I think the development of electrics will alter the current transportation picture in all manner of ways.
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Old 12-04-18, 07:24 PM
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I could be wrong but... it was still too early for the Jetsons to have teleport technology, right?
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Old 12-05-18, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
So you're suggesting we will see no further progress or change with the use of electric vehicles over the next 20 years?

Even the old school golf cart has expanded its horizons and is now much more popular in rural areas. Maybe you're right and we've reached a point of stasis. Nothing will change from here on. But I doubt it. I think the development of electrics will alter the current transportation picture in all manner of ways.
Electric scooters or golf cars are not the electric vehicles or transportation progress many people are waiting for.

Scooters, electric or not, docked or dockless, covered or not, are NOT a substitute for cars; golf cars are NOT a substitute for cars; except perhaps for an LCF ideologue who has no use for a car at all.

Golf cars are "popular" in rural areas for doing what besides golfing or cruising around in a retirement community?
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Old 12-05-18, 07:05 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Electric scooters or golf cars are not the electric vehicles or transportation progress many people are waiting for.

Scooters, electric or not, docked or dockless, covered or not, are NOT a substitute for cars; golf cars are NOT a substitute for cars; except perhaps for an LCF ideologue who has no use for a car at all.
I don't believe I suggested that they are. Quite the opposite with e-scooters. As I've stated, I think the current e-scooter 'revolution' is forwarded by folks who want to sell start up businesses, not viable transportation technology.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Golf cars are "popular" in rural areas for doing what besides golfing or cruising around in a retirement community?
Visiting friends and family, going down to the JoyMart, and just putzing around the farm. Some folks drive them to their deer stands. You now see some retrofitting with large wheels and higher ground clearance. The same purposes for which folks also use smaller three and four wheel IC vehicles. I suspect the advantage of golf carts is fewer engine maintenance concerns. But I'm not suggesting golf carts will become commonplace, I only note that electric motors are already expanding in usage. More widespread use is undoubtedly on the horizon IMO. No, it won't be golf carts. I don't agree that they represent the peak of electric vehicle technology.
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Old 12-05-18, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
I don't believe I suggested that they are. Quite the opposite with e-scooters. As I've stated, I think the current e-scooter 'revolution' is forwarded by folks who want to sell start up businesses, not viable transportation technology.
We are in agreement about the intentions of the promoters of the current e-scooter 'revolution'.
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Old 12-05-18, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
We are in agreement about the intentions of the promoters of the current e-scooter 'revolution'.
keep this going and we might reach a consensus.
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Old 12-05-18, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


keep this going and we might reach a consensus.
I don't think there's any question about this?

It is quite clear that outfits such as Lime and Bird are simply profiteers, attempting to cash in on a perceived 'demand' for these kinds of impractical, nonsensical appliances by dumping them into sundry cities without taking any kind of responsibility for the consequences of what they are doing -- consequences that are now becoming quite apparent and that any rational person could have foreseen: injuries, in some cases severe, and nuisance.

I find incomprehensible the fact that anyone, e.g. an individual or two on this sub-forum, is prepared to support these things and the practices of these obvious exploitative profiteers.
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Old 12-05-18, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
So you're suggesting we will see no further progress or change with the use of electric vehicles over the next 20 years?
That's what they do. They view themselves as 'realists,' but really what they are is 'status quo-ists.' They just ridicule anything relative to the established norm of passenger cars. They do it because they want the economy to be a single integrated system controlled from the top-down. So any time some new idea gets proposed or implemented by anyone except a corporate market leader, they just go on about how it will be dead soon. They are basically right considering how many new vehicle concepts were created and promoted throughout the last decade or so. These ideas are created to lure investors, who are nursed along for a while before the company disappears from the radar.
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Old 12-05-18, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I have heard various reports that e-scooters are growing less popular as the weather gets colder.
Cycling also gets less popular as the weather gets colder. If most people including many cyclists stop riding during winter what makes you think people would adopt a scooter which would be a lot colder to ride on then a bicycle ??...When riding a bicycle at least you're moving and generating heat, on a scooter you just standing there and not moving and your body isn't generating heat. I think you should leave Florida and go up North during winter to get a taste of what real cold feels like.
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Old 12-05-18, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
We are in agreement about the intentions of the promoters of the current e-scooter 'revolution'.
build a better mousetrap?
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Old 12-05-18, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
build a better mousetrap?
In the case of dockless e-scooter it has been- promote a stinkier turd.
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Old 12-05-18, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
In the case of dockless e-scooter it has been- promote a stinkier turd.
You have to wonder how much their intended market is willing to pay for their products or services, assuming the market seems to be comprised of persons who place little value to no value (to having an active contempt) in the idea of taking advantage of opportunities that modern transportation provides. For many, taking an electric scooter to work would make as much sense as a family in LA going to Hawaii for summer vacation on a windsurfer.
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Old 12-05-18, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
That's what they do. They view themselves as 'realists,' but really what they are is 'status quo-ists.' They just ridicule anything relative to the established norm of passenger cars. They do it because they want the economy to be a single integrated system controlled from the top-down. So any time some new idea gets proposed or implemented by anyone except a corporate market leader, they just go on about how it will be dead soon. They are basically right considering how many new vehicle concepts were created and promoted throughout the last decade or so. These ideas are created to lure investors, who are nursed along for a while before the company disappears from the radar.
I hope you realize the highlighted portion of your own post is saying much the same thing as post 13-14-15 by the realists?
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Old 12-06-18, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
I hope you realize the highlighted portion of your own post is saying much the same thing as post 13-14-15 by the realists?
That's why the highlighted text you quoted starts with, "they are basically right."

The culture of ridicule and thus stifling of innovation and progress are extremely widespread and deep. Progress = mopping with the faucet on. Many negative people simply don't have the choice to shift gears to become optimistic and think constructively about change. Their minds are addicted to realism. Even the stock market is set up in such a way that optimism can be used to drive up stock prices for a while before negativity is used to crash them so that short-sellers can cash in on the failure and then re-invest the profits back in the status quo stocks that are less susceptible to ridicule driving them down.

What you fail to understand about me when you are arguing against me is that I understand the realistic attitude you, ILTB, and some others espouse. The difference with me is that I don't see any hope of sustainability in maintaining course with the status quo when it is so obvious that sprawl and deforestation are ruining the planet. Industrialism is only about a century old and the human species has been around much MUCH longer. Burning carbon faster than it can be absorbed by nature is obviously unsustainable, as is using nuclear fuel faster than it is replenished via meteors from distant supernovae or however it is delivered to Earth. We have to live within the margins of how the Earth functions naturally or we will gradually undermine the overall health of the planet and its climate.

I get the sense people like you don't care because you only care about the next century or maybe one or two millennia into the future. You think it's crazy to develop a way of life that leaves the planet better for each subsequent generation instead of worse. I don't understand that. I like to work, when it's productive. You think I don't like to work because I see pitfalls in many aspects of the economic status quo, but I am very eager to work toward reforestation and transportation reform, if people would ever stop resisting those.

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Old 12-11-18, 05:13 PM
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Want a Car-like scooter? # 1 Define ;" scooter"

Something like an electric Vespa with a sidecar perhaps ? cargo box..

rather than a Razor Scooter with a battery under the deck and a motor rear wheel. Ala skateboard with a handle..
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Old 12-11-18, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Golf cars are "popular" in rural areas for doing what besides golfing or cruising around in a retirement community?
I thought of this today when I saw a UPS golf cart with a trailer delivering packages in a residential neighborhood. Although this was an older urban neighborhood. As the technology develops, more specialized small electric vehicles would have great utility in such applications.
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Old 12-12-18, 07:10 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Want a Car-like scooter? # 1 Define ;" scooter"

Something like an electric Vespa with a sidecar perhaps ? cargo box..

rather than a Razor Scooter with a battery under the deck and a motor rear wheel. Ala skateboard with a handle..
Lots of smaller options become viable when speed limits in certain areas are lowered. If/when we see populated areas dropping to 20mph throughout, all sorts of small electric vehicles become more attractive than big cars and trucks that are designed for highway speeds and crashes at those speeds.

Hopefully the big, fast, highway-oriented vehicles will do what they were once meant to do when Eisenhower planned the federal highway system, i.e. stay on the highways. The challenge with this is that people like to show up in their highway machine and step out it onto the red carpet, so to speak. The problem is that is a waste of space for everyone to be able to do that and the question becomes at what level of rural/suburban congestion do people start preferring to avoid traffic instead of dealing with it?
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