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XC + FR= Hate?

Old 05-08-06, 01:25 PM
  #51  
zx108
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we dont really have fr on the trails i ride but there are people that ride xc race bike and people that ride trail/all mountian bikes. but there is never any tension between them. there is always a "whats up" or "how you doing" when i pass someone, that is unless one of us are going up and breathing really heavy and dont want to say anything.

i mean i ride xc and am going to race. but i watch nwd i follow mountain cross as well as xc racing. i love browsing through pictures of dh/freeriding. to me it is all mountain biking, some people just decide to ride differently
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Old 05-08-06, 01:42 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
Sidekick , Eh ? gmoneyhobbit - The Boy-Wonder !
'



OH NO THE CITY IS IN DIRE NEED OF HELP

OFF CAPTAIN CROSSCHAIN

what about me sir

YOU STAY HERE CROSSCHAIN BOY AND GAURD THE ... GEAR!!!!


AWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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Old 05-08-06, 01:47 PM
  #53  
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As far as I'm concerned, anyone who gets annoyed or angry at another riding style needs to get some real problems.

I'm a mtn biker. What are you?
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Old 05-08-06, 02:08 PM
  #54  
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To me, it seems like they're missing out on the bigger picture here. Some guys(myself included) prefer a lighter bike with 3-4' of travel. I have to pay more attention, and pick my lines a little better, but I prefer the lighter weight and solid rear end for climbing. Other guys prefer the big travel, 'cuz they like taking the big hits. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Just remember that you actually CAN ride, and what it feels like to do it.
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Old 05-08-06, 02:49 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Flak
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who gets annoyed or angry at another riding style needs to get some real problems.

I'm a mtn biker. What are you?
I'm just a cyclist.
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Old 05-08-06, 03:41 PM
  #56  
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Cool.
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Old 05-08-06, 03:45 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht
I'm just a cyclist.
**** yo, that's deeep.
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Old 05-08-06, 03:49 PM
  #58  
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I can't afford to be a snob because I need all the friends I can find.

road, xc, fr, dh, etc. all just extensions of b i k i n g.

But I'm an old fart. What do I know?
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Old 05-08-06, 04:13 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Minesbroken
I meant to answer someones question about mountains on long Island before and forgot to. Although there are no mountains to speak of here, there are lots of big hills on the north shore. Lots of trails are even famous world wide such as the green belt trail. I have bumped into mtb riders from all over the globe on that trail. It offers a unique experience with both loose sand and hard packed dirt and a challenge for almost any riding style. I am lucky that I live so close to such a great place to ride. I have ridden many trails all over the place and its as good as any. My local trails however are fun for me also as they are closer and pretty challenging in there own right. I can lose myself for hours in there and not be more than a 15 minute ride from my house at all times. If you would like to see my local trails I have pictures you can look at on my website at http://www.kriskraft.net enjoy
Minesbroken, where exactly is the green belt trail that you mentioned above.
I'm from Brooklyn and I want to go and ride out in L.I. because there aren't too many trails here.
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Old 05-08-06, 06:43 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by gmoneyhobbit
i find myself saying the same thing about roadies when im ridin the road on my mtbike. its just something about them... them buzzing by with a grin and saying like "hello" its like wtf dood i dont know you, if i wanted to i could roll with you but i dont .. psssshhh
Kinda OT...but...

What kinda jerk gets offended when someone says hello? Maybe if you live in New York City, but as for me and the rest of the civilized world, we'll keep greeting strangers

Mean bikers (and people as a whole) suck.
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Old 05-08-06, 08:54 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Kinda OT...but...

What kinda jerk gets offended when someone says hello? Maybe if you live in New York City, but as for me and the rest of the civilized world, we'll keep greeting strangers
I live in NYC and people say hello all the time to each other... and say alot of other crazy and wierd stuff, and no one get offended So it's not a New York thing!
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Old 05-09-06, 10:38 PM
  #62  
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I'm a pretty easy going guy, but I do remember this one time...at band camp...Oh wait, wrong story. This one time up at Tsali, my (now former ex) and I were there with a buddy and our two dogs. We had stopped for a breather (sp?) (to catch our breath), and a bunch of guys in full kits come blowing by us. One of them yells, "Get out of the way, we're training!". Not in a nice tone at all! Well, that pressed my button. I yelled back, "So what?, I'm not training! I don't give a rip if you're training!" He stops and we had a little "discussion".

I reminded him that just because he's training, doesn't mean he owns the trails. He thought his buddies would back him up, luckily for me, most of them took "my" side and were apologizing for his attitude. Fortunately for me (since I was outnumbered) we all settled down and went on our merry little ways. Granted, I'm a big guy and was probably twice this guys size, I still would've probably gotten my butt kicked if his buddies had stepped in.

The thing that bothered me most was that I was doing something that I love to do and because of some guy being a jerk, my entire afternoon was ruined. I still get upset about what happened. Since then, I always try to think of how my actions affect others. Sure, we were in the way. Didn't mean to be. However, if the guy hadn't been so rude, I probably would've apologized for being in their way. But, when this guy threw down some attitude, it made my blood boil.
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Old 05-10-06, 08:06 AM
  #63  
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Thats all I'm saying...treat others the way you would have them treat you! then everyone has fun. The greenbelt trail starts in cold spring harbor somewhere along route 108 but most people catch it in syosset on Jericho turnpike or "route 25" From either location its a challenge...from syosset theres more places to park
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Old 05-10-06, 10:09 AM
  #64  
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Here it is shifties vs singlespeed. Pretty awesome really, because it is nothing more than friendly jabbing and makes for good rivalry.
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Old 05-10-06, 11:15 AM
  #65  
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Building sustainably ...

Originally Posted by wethepeople
Around here the XC guys are ******s, if they find one of our freeride trails, they'll spend a day taking it down rather then riding.
The conflict comes in when XC riders work hard to establish land access and build a sustainable trail .... THEN ... some free-riders come in and decide that they are going to elaborate on things. They cut in fall line trails and build wild obstacles without consulting either the land stewards (trail group) or the land owner.

This type of activity gets trails shut down. It also causes confusion as a proliferation of side-routes makes navigation impossible to those who do not know the trail by heart.

The stuff that free-riders do is really impressive. But in most places ... it's not sustainable. That is why the land stewards will spend a day taking down the stuff that you buid without permission. You didn't consult anyone about it. You didn't ask permission, and if it is not your land you need that permission. The trail group has permission and has been sanctioned by the land owner to manage things.

If you would like a freeride trail, you should perhaps try establishing your own area. Make sure you bring plans and sketches and video to show the land manager exactly what you intend on doing with the property. You will encounter a great deal of skepticism and a LOT of NO, NO, NO ... No I don't want uncontrolled erosion. No, I do not need the potential liability.

You do not have the right to build whatever you want wherever you want it. And you do not have the right to cut down trees, grass, foliage, shrubbery, etc... that do not belong to you.

Now let me clarify, I don't hate freeriders. But I help manage an XC park, and I (along with my trailmates) spend a LOT of time doing it. Probably too much time. We always ask for help and little comes. So when someone gets up one morning and decides to make a change to the trail layout without consulting the trail group or the park, I am none too pleased. When someone decides to manufacture a shortcut, I do not like it at all and I will set about immediately shutting these things down and ripping them apart (most of them are poorly constructed, so I can accomplish it with my gloved hands).

There are freeride parks out there that are VERY well constructed with durable obstacles on set courses and likely properly insured complete with the appropriate liability waivers. Not every park is like that and not every can be like that. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the parks MUST be traversable by hikers and runners. This rules out the tight rope Ewok village type stuff. If someone falls off of it, they can sue you and you'll be liable PLUS you will have your trail shut down.

If you are a "hardcore" freerider that doesn't believe in well built sustainable trails and you believe that you can take a McCleod to anything you like anywhere, I really dislike you. Feel free to ride our trails, but do not feel free to modify it. If you think it's too boring, you should go find someplace else to ride (hopefully with land manager approval) or develop your own property. I will aggressively dismantle anything that has not undergone approval of the land stewards. It does not make me an XC snob. It makes me responsible and in fact, the same land use agreement that permits a group to develop trails often contractually obligates them to tear down "extreme" stuff if it is found.

When you get trails shut down, you're not "helping" the MTB movement. You're hurting it. And if you go "do your own thing", you deserve to be *****slapped.

Regarding guys in team uniforms who are "training". They can go to hell. You should be courteous at all times on the trails. That means slowing down any time there is the potential for a collision. Your race is not more important then the safety of others. That goes for hardcore XC racers as well downhill buzz thrillers. There is not a park in the world that will EVER ban hikers. As soon as you get off your bike, you become one. It's simply not a possibility. But they CAN ban bikes. So be nice to the hikers and pass responsibly.

Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 05-10-06 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 05-10-06, 11:49 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
The conflict comes in when XC riders work hard to establish land access and build a sustainable trail .... THEN ... some free-riders come in and decide that they are going to elaborate on things. They cut in fall line trails and build wild obstacles without consulting either the land stewards (trail group) or the land owner.

This type of activity gets trails shut down. It also causes confusion as a proliferation of side-routes makes navigation impossible to those who do not know the trail by heart.

The stuff that free-riders do is really impressive. But in most places ... it's not sustainable. That is why the land stewards will spend a day taking down the stuff that you buid without permission. You didn't consult anyone about it. You didn't ask permission, and if it is not your land you need that permission. The trail group has permission and has been sanctioned by the land owner to manage things.

If you would like a freeride trail, you should perhaps try establishing your own area. Make sure you bring plans and sketches and video to show the land manager exactly what you intend on doing with the property. You will encounter a great deal of skepticism and a LOT of NO, NO, NO ... No I don't want uncontrolled erosion. No, I do not need the potential liability.

You do not have the right to build whatever you want wherever you want it. And you do not have the right to cut down trees, grass, foliage, shrubbery, etc... that do not belong to you.
this happened in a local park.. tons of wooden obstacles and side trails were constructed, and then the BLM, who manages the land came in a took it all out, then went and questioned all the local bike shops about who did it.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:18 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
The conflict comes in when XC riders work hard to establish land access and build a sustainable trail .... THEN ... some free-riders come in and decide that they are going to elaborate on things. They cut in fall line trails and build wild obstacles without consulting either the land stewards (trail group) or the land owner.
Wow, dude. I guess XC + FR does = Hate.

I have built trails myself and I can assure you I have never NEVER cut down a tree to do it. And Freeriders aren't reckless idiots ---- I can build a trail that won't cause the entire mountain to erode into an ant hill. Give me a break.

The conflict comes when XC riders think they know more than freeriders, or when XC riders get all high and mighty about land access. I pay my taxes and dues, dude, I am just as able to access land as you are. "Wild obstacles" don't cause erosion, and freeriders don't sue if they get hurt.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:18 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
The conflict comes in when XC riders work hard to establish land access and build a sustainable trail .... THEN ... some free-riders come in and decide that they are going to elaborate on things. They cut in fall line trails and build wild obstacles without consulting either the land stewards (trail group) or the land owner.
....
You are a brilliant hard working individual. Not enough praise goes to people like you who fight to keep our sport alive.

Thank you.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:22 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ih8_punkrock
Wow, dude. I guess XC + FR does = Hate.

I have built trails myself and I can assure you I have never NEVER cut down a tree to do it. And Freeriders aren't reckless idiots ---- I can build a trail that won't cause the entire mountain to erode into an ant hill. Give me a break.

The conflict comes when XC riders think they know more than freeriders, or when XC riders get all high and mighty about land access. I pay my taxes and dues, dude, I am just as able to access land as you are. "Wild obstacles" don't cause erosion, and freeriders don't sue if they get hurt.
Open your mind, you completely sidestepped the point.

Moving naturally bulid structures DOES increase erosion and in turn cause trail closures.
You pay taxes to USE not ABUSE the land.
There are others who use the trails besides you; Hikers, XC, FR, children, adults. Comply to the needs of the majority, not your own selfish needs. Where you go over, others are forced to go around, further increasing eroding effects.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:26 PM
  #70  
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Yeah I was responding to this ...

Originally Posted by wethepeople
Around here the XC guys are ******s, if they find one of our freeride trails, they'll spend a day taking it down rather then riding.
Those ******s may very well be the land steward, the people the land managers have contracted with to build and maintain the trail system. In such a case it is probably their responsibility to do this.

You must get permission from a landowner before constructing a trail. If you did not have that permission, then your "freeride" trail should be dismantled by all rules of sane-ness.

If you see other people building, you should strike up a conversation and ask if they are the land stewards. If this is the case, than these are the people in charge and you need to contact them before you build anything. You will find that these people are NOT snobs. They will gleefully ask you to join their club. Trail maintenance groups are sometimes perceived as exclusive, you'll find they need all the help they can get.

You will find that the land manager/owner has certain expectations in a land use agreement. Your free-ride trail may not fit with that expectation. In such a case, you may have to scale down your plans and spend quite a long time building a trust relationship by showing up for workdays and helping the people who have built everything else keep it up. After you put your time in, then you will have a say and can make a credible case for your style of riding after you consult IMBA standardized designs as well as consulting lawyers to check on the liability situation.

If "free-riding" means you can do anything you want anywhere you want, then you are fundamentally incompatible with the sport. You should be shunned and driven away and pelted with rocks anytime you step foot on someone else's hard work and labor. If you cannot work with others and compromise and play a part, then you cannot have a trail and you should go find another hobby. We don't need you in the sport tearing up other people's work and earning a bad name for MTBers with land managers.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:33 PM
  #71  
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Who owns the trail ...

Originally Posted by Cornish_Rdr_UK
Dont tend to see it much over here, you occasionally get a stuck up bunch of riders who think they own the trail but who cares, ignore them, your trail as much as theirs, we're all bikers.

I can imagine it being a pain in the ass though, especially if your considerate enough to acknowledge them.

As for bikers vs skaters, I do both, so that doesnt bother me.
The land owner owns the trail. The land manager says what can and cannot be constructed there. In some cases, they contract with an organization of mountain bikers to build sustainable trails. These individuals who donate all their hard time and effort with the permission of the land owner, they are effectively in charge. And in almost every case, you are more than welcome to join and put in your hard work and be in charge as well. But you have to work with the team.

No, it is not as much YOUR trail as it is others. You will find that the people who do all the coordination with the land owners and all the building own it a little more than you do. And again, you're more than welcome to help these individuals and become a land steward rather than just someone who uses. But you have to be prepared to put in some hard work, go along with the group, and then once you've proven yourself, you'll have a say.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:36 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by xcaliber
Open your mind, you completely sidestepped the point.

Moving naturally bulid structures DOES increase erosion and in turn cause trail closures.
You pay taxes to USE not ABUSE the land.
There are others who use the trails besides you; Hikers, XC, FR, children, adults. Comply to the needs of the majority, not your own selfish needs. Where you go over, others are forced to go around, further increasing eroding effects.
Horses cause trail erosion, but no one is stopping horses from accessing trails. Free-range cattle grazing cause trail erosion, but no one is stopping cattle from grazing. And neither am I, dude, I am all about equal access, and right now, there isn't equal access.

What happens when FR stunts are taken down, or FR-ers are denied access to trails is that the reckless minority who are sick of it and have the balls will go built stunts anyway, ones they can put up and take down in a day. Obviously these aren't as safe or as well-built, but they don't have the opporutnitiy to do it right when other people rip them down anyway. Remember prohibition? No one stopped drinking just because it was illegal or caused liver disease. People are going to find a way to do something, so the best thing to do is give FR-ers some stunts to rip on. What is the big deal? A bridge that doesn't even touch the ground for its whole span HAS to have less of a trail impact than an actual trail on the ground, where people can skid their tires and rip up the dirt. It isn't about erosion. It is like what that other dude said about snowboarding.
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Old 05-10-06, 12:49 PM
  #73  
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Regardless of discipline, people who go against land owners are going to loose their trails. Once "everyone" learns this your trails will stay open. Traditionally I am willing to bet that a lot of the problems in the states with trail closures are caused by dhillers and freeriders ripping it up without permission. Regardless of what you think, without the permission, certain riders make mtbiking look like a bunch of ungrateful kids who break the rules. Aka it ALWAYS looks like freeriders cause the problem
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Old 05-10-06, 12:53 PM
  #74  
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Around here everyone gets along pretty well. If there is any descrimination I would say that it is from the wanna-be downhillers. You get some people that have the bikes and the clothes but not the talent. They enjoy laughing at us xc guys wearing our spandex and team kits. I find that most of the people that "can" ride respect all riders no matter what type riding they do. It is generally the newbies that descriminate.

I know it is childish but I do find it gratying to pass these "downhillers" wearing their full body armor on the downhills while riding my xc bike and spandex. Now keep in mind, I could not come close to passing the good downhill guys around here and I have the utmost respect for them. Those guys can ride!!!!
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Old 05-10-06, 01:10 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Regardless of discipline, people who go against land owners are going to loose their trails. Once "everyone" learns this your trails will stay open. Traditionally I am willing to bet that a lot of the problems in the states with trail closures are caused by dhillers and freeriders ripping it up without permission. Regardless of what you think, without the permission, certain riders make mtbiking look like a bunch of ungrateful kids who break the rules. Aka it ALWAYS looks like freeriders cause the problem
I agree dude, but throwing all FR-ers into the same category ---- reckless idiots who stomp all over laws and run down grannies ---- doesn't help. It just isn't true. I volunteer on trail maint. days and I don't cut down trees just so I can make a clear path to a road gap. Just like not every XC-er is a ****head in a team kit and a HR monitor, like shaking his fist and eating Powergel every five minutes. And lots of times, FR-ers ASK to use trails. But since it is a young sport, most FR-ers don't have enough $$$ to go buy some acreage and build their own park, that is a pretty lame thing to suggest in the first place. (You didn't suggest it, that other guy did.)
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