Minesbroken

I'll get the beer

ed 

Sorry. I'll keep my smarties in my pants. (I sound rude sometimes when I don't mean to be, hehe)

BTW...I'd love to ride a 50lb bike downhill at 45mph...though I'd prefer to go faster.

Heck...I don't even use brakes! MWAHAHAHAHA.

I love this place.

Happy

ed 

Caught me there...I meant to say stop as well with less effort. Sometimes I think faster than I type...or maybe the verse.

fjyang

Lets all hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya! :-) and don't forget to swing left to right.

ed 

It's right to left, JERK!!! We can never be friends now.

fjyang

I guess the show must go on! haha We got people here with popcorn and beer waiting. Ok....guys, take your number and line up with your insults from the "right" like the man said

Minesbroken

I still have the beer

achc

There is quite a lot...

Hydraulic - more heavy, harder to setup, less pressure on lever require, usually more stopping power

Mechanical - easy setup, cheaper usually, good braking power, will interferences with mud

Maelstrom 

Harder to setup?...jeez...level pressure...why did I look in this thread.

Minesbroken

because your day was going too smoothly...

willtsmith_nwi

Fjyang, this assertion is incorrect. A cable or fluid line only tramsmits power. It is true that you can do some interesting things with hydraulics. For example, it's a lot easier to distribute load over multiple pistons. You'll never see a cable pull brake with more then one piston. Hydraulics also do provide a convenient way to express mechanical leverage. In the end however, this is no different then what the throw lever on a mechanical screw piston provides.

People make analogies to cars and they are WAAAAY off base. It is the engine that provides the power assist on power brakes. The fact that the system is hydraulic provides no "extra power" even though the system relies on the hydraulics for it's operation. This does not translate into bicycle brakes being more powerful because they are hydraulic.

Rotor/caliper diameter, rotor material, pad material, mechanical leverage, calibration ... these are the factors that will determine how much braking force you get from a given input on the lever. There is no "power assist". A hydraulic system once setup will remain in calibration as it is self adjusting. Beyond that there is no "power advantage" to a hydraulic over a cable based brake system.

If a Juicy 7 way the same price as a BB-7, I'd have Juicy 7s. Since they are more expensive, I'm content to turn the little dials every couple weeks.

Raiyn

Stacey

Nachos Supreme anyone?

Minesbroken

WHAT?!?!?

achc

hydraulic are harder to setup and you 'might' have to bleed the system, change oil, make sure there is no air inside the hose and that is far more complicated then changing a wire every year.

I have used many Hydraulics system (Hope Mini, Mono Mini, M4, Hayes HFX-9, Avid Juicy 7, Shimano XT, XTR, Magura, etc). They are far more complicated to setup compare to my Avid BB7. Especially the Hope. Read some review on MTBR. Hope brakes are pain the the @$$ to setup.

Depending on what hydraulic system you use. Hayes and Avid Juicy are easy and so are the new Hope as they use adapter. But the old Hope system, Magura can be hard. A old Magura I have don't even have release valve making bleeding a pain.
There is also no adjustment on the lever on some (no knob like Avid Juicy).

'Will interference with mud' if you bike on muddy trails a lot, the mud can jam up where the cable is at the caliper which can jam the system where hydraulics (the oil is inside the hose) and the mud cannot get in so it will not jam it.

willtsmith_nwi

Maelstrom 

I don't think it is harder. Its a different skillset. I can change my oil in the same time it takes to change the housing etc on a cabled system.

I agree, "some" systems are more complex. But most a monkey could do with basic instructions.

fjyang

Hydraulic do provide additional "assist" or boost compared to cable actuated becasue it has a piston/master cyclinder pushing/forcing the liquid through that little brake hose that is 1/8" dia. Hydraulics amplified the force our hands and levers can provide many folds. Motorcycle does not have engine assit brakes because each rotor is only push by one lever/one piston (right lever activate the front brake and left leg activate the rear brake).

Cars...we have one brake pedal activating four rotors and brake pistons and we're stopping 4,000lb weight so that is why we need engine power to assit our leg, other wise we all have leg cramps after driving through rush hour traffic or worse.....

If hydrolics does not provide more power or "assist" then all the race cars and motorcycles out there will switch to cable actuate brakes to save weight, why carry all that liquid and extra weight? I don't think cars and motorcycles use hydraulic brakes because its easy to maintain.

If you want the power of a hydraulics in cable actuated brake, it can be done, but you'll end up with 20" long brake lever to increase your leverage/power and that is not practical.

Mechanical brake work/exist on bicycles becasue we're only stopping 25-30lb carbon fiber toy that average 15-20mph, beyond that you're flirting with disaster.

I run BB7 on my mountain bikes and did not go with hyraulic setup because my riding style does not required such a setup.

willtsmith_nwi

fjyang, if you are correct then you're in the wrong business. What you're doing is manufacturing energy out of thin air. You should be manufacturing power with your magic fluid power plant.

I think you'll find that hydraulic brake systems come in lighter then mechanical systems. The primary reason for hydraulics in cars is the simplicity with which one can deliver the braking force to multiple pistons in a braking system. For cars with power brakes (all of them these days) it is required as the vacuum assist system relies on hydraulics.

Since you're now making an empirical argument, I would like to see your calculations.

Flak

Hold on, you're saying that the hydro action doesn't make braking easier at the lever? Sure it does. Power may be similar at the caliper, but hydros dont require nearly as hard a pull at the lever to achieve this. That's what makes them so sweet, and is key to thier superior modulation imo.

cryptid01

Are you trolling? Seriously.

What makes you think that increasing the fluid volume (via master cylinder, as others have written) wouldn't have the same effect* on a hydraulic system as lengthening the caliper levers would have on a mechanical one?

*increased pad/rotor pressure for a given lever pull

willtsmith_nwi

I give up. People don't read.

euroford

holly cow. you'd kind of have to be a nucklehead to not realize hydros are better. sure, bb7's can get the job done, but really folks, gimme a break.

mcoine

When are we going to see dual front disc brakes? Motorcycles evolved from drums, to single disc, to dual disc, why not bikes? It would be a complete waste of money, but that hasn't stopped the bike industry before.

Stacey

I was just thinking that the other day. How cool would that look?!?!