obstacle

If I see someone coming at me the wrong way, in a bike lane or otherwise, I don't move. I give those idiots no quarter. If anything I'll move over to push them into traffic so maybe they will have a fearful moment and learn a lesson not to be riding the wrong way.

Respect begets respect. Riding the wrong way in a bike lane or a street deserves none.

The "running" lanes in Central Park, the few they are (mostly in the southern end) might look like the same surface as the road but they aren't. Most of them are paved over concrete or stone (like alot of the paths in the park). Most runners won't run on them as concrete/stone makes footfalls much harder on the knees/legs. That is why most of us run on the main loop.

I'm both a cyclist and runner and do all my training in the park. When I'm running I try to be respectful of cyclists and not waver from my line and stay close to curb. On the bike I also don't waver my line but ride in the middle lane always, giving me plenty of room if someone pops out in front of me (FYI, I ride/run at night only when the park is closed to traffic).

lukasz

The different surface explains a lot. I can respect that -- it is not like I find it impossible to bike ride because of the runners. It just made no sense to me that people would run in the bike lane when there appears to be a perfectly fine jogging lane next to it. When the park is closed to traffic I find no problem with it at all. My annoyance pertain to when there is only the couple of foot wide bike lane to use with cars speeding by. It would still be nice if everyone went in the same direction though.

minachan

How do I deal with this? Easy.

On a good day-- when I'm feeling charitable-- I simply hold my ground, give a steely-eyed glance ahead of me showing that I ain't going nowhere, and give the moron one of two choices: to either swerve into traffic to avoid me or take a detour on the sidewalk. No way in hell am I going to swerve into traffic for his benefit.

On a bad day-- and by bad day I mean one of those days when I've had to deal with several of these idiots PLUS clueless pedestrians wandering into the bike lane absent-mindedly or ignoring my bike bell-- I just scream at the offender. Yes, I do it... I am a ***** on wheels. I'm sorry, but I have zero tolerance policy against cyclists who are either too stupid or too selfish to care how their actions affect others. I'm especially intolerant because of where I'm biking from. I live in East Flatbush and have to use many heavily trafficked, non bike-laned streets where everything from delivery trucks to SUVs are rumbling past you so closely that just the slightest move will have you going under their wheels. That a fool would happily bike down the wrong side of the road on such dangerous streets and then expect ME to risk my life for him infuriates me, so you can be sure that on a very bad day of idiot pedestrians and ignorant cyclists, I really let people like that have it. I don't practice "etiquette" because a person who'd endanger my life like that doesn't deserve it.

I wouldn't advise being belligerent like I am, but I do think that you should just do the alternative-- keep biking straight on, don't acknowledge the offender, don't swerve, don't do anything. Keep going and pretend he doesn't exist. When he realizes that you're not going to "move" to let him pass, he'll move onto the sidewalk or maybe be forced to deal with the terror of riding too close for comfort near traffic.

heypaul

I like your answer. I'm curious if Flatbush Ave, especially north of Prospect Park, is one of those streets where you are perilously close to traffic? It's a nice straight stretch to the bridges and downhill, but I find it very dangerous. Even though Vanderbilt & Washington take you several blocks east, I have opted for them on days when my intestinal tract will not handle any more stress.

With oncoming bikes coming in the wrong direction on a bike path, I've tried just coming to a stop and seeing what happens. Perhaps it's passive resistance, but it avoids me actively being part of a collision with the other bike.

Besides raising the middle finger of your hand, is there a hand signal that will communicate that the oncoming rider should bear to your right? How about pointing at him/her and then pointing to your right? Would that be universally (that's asking alot) understood?? If we could outfit our bikes with retractable stop signs, like a school bus, maybe that would help.

minachan

I do go on Flatbush, but only on that stretch between Eastern Parkway and Empire Boulevard. Although it's a very dangerous street and all, ironically it's not one of the ones I had in mind in the previous post, because (THANK GOD!!!) there are no people stupid enough to go the wrong way on it. If there ever were, I swear to God, they would be seriously clotheslined or something.

I'm talking about streets like Ocean Avenue, Nostrand Avenue, and a few others. I guess you could count Bedford Avenue as well. The last time I came across a salmon it was on Nostrand. I totally lost it, especially when, in seeing that I wasn't going anywhere, he started weaving this way and that in a panic to avoid me. I just screamed at him, lol.... It was like, hey, if you're gonna be a badass and ride the wrong way in heavy traffic at least have proper reaction time (geeeez)!

But as I said, don't anyone follow my lead. I'm not a nice person and I don't want to encourage anyone to be as mean as me. Besides, I was very angry that day, because it was my first time *really* dealing with pedestrians. Besides, being mean doesn't really teach them anything. The best thing to do is to just unwaver in your path. Look forward, ignore, put on a poker face, and keep going straight. When they realize that THEY'RE the ones that are going to have to move out of YOUR way, they'll learn that they don't "own" the road and can't do whatever they want to do at the expense of other cyclists. They might also learn WHY it's dangerous to ride like that.

I don't know if there is a signal. Even if there were, I don't think any sign of communication will work, because salmons strike me as having a sense of entitlement, where they wouldn't care. Even if you signal them, they might just ignore it. They're sort of like the pedestrians in Times Square or Chinatown who casually walk down a bike lane 3 abreast with their backs turned toward traffic and will literally ignore your bell or shouts. With people like that, it's not enough sometimes to give them the common courtesy of signaling. You gotta take drastic measures sometimes so they get the hint: that they can't just go out there and do whatever they want and make everyone accomodate them. Not only because it's discourteous, but because it's dangerous.

roadiejorge 

Riding in between the lanes on the major avenues are "salmon" free and since most motorists are more aware when switching lanes I feel safer and have never had an instance where someone cut me off if I was in their sideview mirror's view. I like seeing lots of people on bikes but there sure are some muppets out there who ride really carelessly. I could understand if 6th avenue had the only bike lane in Manhattan but since it isn't there's no excuse. The few times I ride on bike lanes I'm quickly reminded as to why I don't like them at all.

Riverside_Guy

After reading this thread, I went and found my old Acme Thunderer...

Jude

I met like 3 salmon today...all of them, I think, were University of Penn students. How, I'm not sure, since a situation like a bike lane is fairly simple to handle and does not require a high SAT score.

prizm

You know guys, as someone who is all over NYC on a bike, sometimes you have no choice but to ride the wrong way down an Avenue Unless you want to cut some massive square heading across town on a street then back up/down the Avenue the correct way, then over again to the your original destination. It's silly - And it's a giant detour. It's just a fact of life in the city, so to yell and berate someone for going the wrong way is kind of...how do I say....uncool. Sticking to the right lane standard is also kind of important to avoid head on's...Sure there's a few idiots that are waaay too wide in the street as they head the wrong way towards you... so the hell with 'em. But as more people bike, that's all I need is to have fellow bikers trying to kill me too by forcing you into traffic. Leave that to the cabs.

I'm not saying it's always right to be wrong, it's just sometimes unavoidable.

roadiejorge 

Plan accordingly and follow the basic rules of the road. Going against the flow of traffic is dangerous for others as well and just because some people find it inconvenient to go a few extra blocks doesn't give them the right to endanger others. If everyone knew how to react to someone riding the wrong way then fine, but more often than not it doesn't work out that way especially when you factor in the noobs you find on bike lanes.

pgoat

I do it on occasion too, but I am cognizant of that danger posed to others and yield to them. It's that clueless look on the salmon's face or worse, the inexplicable snootiness or anger at me (for riding the correct way) that pisses me off.

minachan

You're right. It IS uncool. But endangering the lives of other cyclists is even more uncool, especially in heavy, speeding traffic when swerving out of each other's way could result in a fatal accident. Sorry, but if there are city buses lumbering past us, as well as speeding SUVs and other cars, you bet your bottom dollar that you're gonna get shouted at by me, especially if you start maneuvering your bike in a way that says in no uncertain terms that you're going to make me swerve for your convenience. If you want to endanger your life be my guest, but don't endanger my life or anyone else in the process, especially those of us who take every precaution to be safe. It's selfish, obnoxious, and blatantly unfair.

It also makes us look bad. Cyclists have a lot of negative preconceived notions to overcome in order to make strides in this city. You don't make it any easier when you do things that everyone agrees is reckless.

BTW, not understanding at all your complaint that you have "no choice" but to ride the wrong way in some cases. You *do* have a choice-- to make that detour, just as any other car, bus, or vehicle would. Or, if you have a destination that really is that inconvenient to get to by going the "right way", to leave the bike home and take public transit or drive. I love my bike to death too, but if I can't use it sometimes, I just don't use it. I leave it home.

prizm

Hey now.. don't make me the whipping boy for this thread. I said it happens every once in a while for me to go the wrong way. As in the E. village where I live... It's not like I ride the wrong way all the time.

Go have a seat over there and have a cool glass of water. Christ.

obstacle

I should say I also only run/ride at night when the park is closed to traffic. I won't set foot in the park to train when it's open to traffic or during daylight hours. The human debris and weekend warriors out there getting in the way are just too much for me to take. So people running in the bike lane is almost a moot point during peak hours.

I agree with you about everyone going the right (counter-clockwise) way. That is just common sense. Though to be honest on some dark and cold winter nights when I'm out there I do ride the loop clockwise to mix things up. Then again, at those times, it's really just me some cold raccoons and ice. It's a entirely different ride clockwise.

ckobran

I want to get the City to ban ALL car traffic in the park with the exception of the cross town pass unders...I see no need for the drives to be open in the park...let's just make the park for people and no0t cars

just think if we had an extra wide running/walking lane (think the now bike/run lane) and a REALLY wide biking lane (think the car lanes)

Riverside_Guy

It's been almost a decade since I rode in CP while dark... and I think those old time were before 7, dark but plenty of traffic. Last week, to get to the Times Up ride, I zipped along the west drive about 9-9:15 to get to Columbus Circle. BOY what a great little ride! 2 of the hills I usually have to get out of the saddle to maintain a 10+ mph pace I sat down on. It was a tad eery but actually very peaceful. Many stretches with NOBODY around.

Oddly, I don't have a HUGE issue with the dodging I have to do on the Loop on weekends. I can usually stick close to the pace I am capable of (absent Harlem Hill and winds, I can do 14.5-14.9 average) and I know where choke points are.

So I think I'll probably be doing more night riding... but I AM curious about fitness gained, stuff like that. Especially as a 60+ clyde!

Riverside_Guy

Boy, that would be nice. BUT we'd still have to deal with idiotic walkers, the families who spread 4 kids under 5 across the road, horse draw carriages and the worst of all, pedicabs. BUT, none of them are a serious threat to staying alive. One regulation seriously needed at this point is not allowing pedicabs to ride three and four abreast, completely blocking the entire road.

obstacle

For the past 5 years I've done 90% of my training (bike and on foot) in Central Park, usually between 9-Midnight, year round. It's wonderful because NO ONE IS THERE and it's empty and all mine which allows me to control my training goals much better. I've so much data on riding there that I know for what gearing I have on my bike (I am a roadie but train in the park fixed) I know what RPM and heart rate I should be doing at any given point to monitor my fitness and how much I'm pushing, etc etc. Central Park is my own personal track (a 6 mile track) and for the life of me I have no idea why more people don't ride/run there after 9pm (but I'm glad they don't because it's MY park after then). THe park closes at 1am, but the NYPD that patrols the park have seen me for so many years that most of them will let me ride until I want, I've left the park some nights at 3am after a 6 hour ride where I saw less than 20 people over that entire time.

That is why I will never understand why people bother with the park during peak hours. If I'm riding then I'm riding over the GWB in NJ or up in Westchester, as far from the masses as I can get.

ckobran

I couldn't agree more on the pedicab issue...I frequently scream at these guys who turn around without looking and block the entire road...thank god they don't make it as far north as Harlem hill etc...only have to deal with them in the southern part... the general cluenessness factor of the pedestrians should decrease now that the tourists have departed after their summer vacation...but they are still there...I almost hit Eliott Spitzer and his Wife about a month ago

I wrote the NYC Dept of Parks - contact here --- can't hurt!

obstacle

I'll one up you. How about a regulation banning those damn things from city streets, period. I'm all for greening up NYC but the people peddling those pedicabs are 99% of the time NOT cyclists and have no ideas how to ride in traffic, they aren't bikes...nor are they cars...they simple don't belong on city streets.

While we are at it let's get those damn ebikes all the Deliverymen have no banned. They are no longer bikes, not scooters (even if they were you need registration for those), definitely not motorcycles.


Even seen them on Harlem Hill, but only a handful of times...and I supposes it's their own fault for picking up a fare that wanted to see the "whole" park. I regularly seem them up as far as the Met, Great Lawn (even on the paths cutting over to the West Side) and the Shakespeare Theatre.

I've asked a few of the NYPD guys who patrol the park and they've told me they (the NYPD) are pushing to have the pedicabs regulated in the city, especially on the streets, since they cause so many traffic problems/accidents.

roadiejorge 

Well motorists can say the same thing about cyclists since more often than not people break traffic laws. I suppose just banning everything will be the easiest solution.

Riverside_Guy

Well, not so sure I'd want to go that far, they don't get in my way out on the streets... but they sure do in CP when I am riding!

Riverside_Guy

Funny I am kinda discovering this as the weather is getting colder! Truth be told, I'm not at all sure what my personal tolerance will be... all I can say is I'll certainly give it a shot. I really couldn't ride for certain days in August due to heat and humidity... I have a compromised ticker and a real good feeling at what limits to push how far, plus meds that won't allow a HR over 140... so next summer I could be out there more frequently at night.

Maybe you can wave as you power by me some night... I usually do have to take a break or two and at best only average 14.5 or so for each loop.

obstacle

But we have bike lanes and are much smaller on the street. Yes, there are many cyclists that break traffic laws, but generally they aren't 5' wide and riding 4 abreast. Not to mention most cyclists who ride in traffic learn some etiquette (whether they regard it is not my point) and thus don't cause half the issues pedicabs do.

K6-III

You know, sometimes it means you get off and walk that last 1/2 block. Still no excuses for going the wrong way.