learnmedia

No, only your analysis is simple. I don't hate Lance. I don't know him well enough to hate him. I do know that he's a helluva bicycle racer. And a cancer survivor. However, I mistrust the mythology surrounding him. Floyd Landis is NOT the only person that has accused Lance of doping. And I philosophically disagree with the position of some that if the truth reveals that LA is guilty of doping it will do more harm than good and is better left alone.

If you say that you believed FL when he professed his innocence but you were wrong, the implication is that by admitting now that he was not innocent, you feel that there's an element of truth in what he says. So the issue then becomes whether you believe his explanation of the context of systemic doping in which he participated and those he says were also involved.

Again, he is not the only athlete, let alone cyclist, that has initially denied doping then later admitted doing so. Yet he is the only one to my knowledge that is summarily dismissed as lacking any credibility whatsoever (besides Canseco who, by the way, was found to be telling the truth). Why? It seems that it's not because he named names generally. But that he named Team Lance specifically.

ls01

I understand that people need something to believe in at times, someone to look to for motivation and strenth. A hero, as it were. That is a noble cause. In the end we all fight our own fight, with or without a hero to look to, no one can do it for us.
In the end It need to be the truth or its all a lie and someone is proffiting from that lie. If what FL says is true, that makes us all victims,in one sence or another. People do not cheat or lie unless they stand to gain something from it, there is always a reason and it is ussually a selfish need or want that motivates a person to do it.
I am not trying to be disrespectful of the loss you and others have suffered, please dont take it that way.
As others have pointed out without LF the fight would go on. Other hero's would appear. who's to say they would not be just as, if not even more effective?

achoo

Define "lie".

We KNOW most of Armstrong's major competition during his 7-year-run DID use PEDs.

So, the truth must be one of:

1. Armstrong is clean and therefore far and away the best cyclist ever
2. Armstrong isn't clean but won 7 TdFs in a row on a level playing field, making him one of the best cyclists ever.

Take your pick.

patentcad

Concise and correct.

gsteinb

How is the playing field level? Many of his closest competitors got popped. So he shouldn't because he's American? A cancer survivor? Why shouldn't he suffer the same fate as the German guy? Or basso?

Floyd lied? Ok. So lance said he didn't use peds.. Then what if he is proven to have cheated. Floyd's lies are worse?

I'm not following the inconsistent logic in here. Can someone please tell me how to feel so I can appropriately direct my outrage.

gsteinb

How is the playing field level? Many of his closest competitors got popped. So he shouldn't because he's American? A cancer survivor? Why shouldn't he suffer the same fate as the German guy? Or basso?

Floyd lied? Ok. So lance said he didn't use peds.. Then what if he is proven to have cheated. Floyd's lies are worse?

I'm not following the inconsistent logic in here. Can someone please tell me how to feel so I can appropriately direct my outrage.

Dr. Banzai

Lance has never tested positive for a banned substance. Until he does I will take A. Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of our law. Let's abide by it.

ls01

OK so by your reasoning, I can cheat, and back deal to get whatever I want or need as long as I make a few people feel good.
Makes complete sense.
Sorry but the simple truth is YES!!!! THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH. whether he did it or not I dont know, but if he did the it will taint everything that he touches. Prolonging the lie isnt going to help anyone or make it any easier.
If LA did dope, Other people should have won. Those persons were robbed of their rightful place in history. Not to mention the money. That is why they want to win. The dough. without which we would not have LAF or any potential victims. So lets look at just the money. He is frigging super rich. If he cheated does he deserve to have all that cash? what about the rightful winners. You know the people he screwed out of thier rightfully place.
Finally, yes if LA is a cheat then a lot of people are going to be hurt. But lets not lose sight of who is really doing the hurting. If LA is a cheater then he is the person responsible for that hurt not FL. although he also bears some responsibility because he did participate in the coverup for some time. CHEATING IS A LIE, AND LYING IS WRONG. I is a simple concept. If LA's success is based on a lie. Do you have any right to NOT tell those people. It may be inconvenient but it is still the TRUTH.

Look you want to throw me and my opinion under the bus because there is going to be collateral damage. I get it. At least be honest enough to state that you are just as willing to hold a bunch of sick people hostage and give them, what very well may be a false hero to worship.
Why not come right out and say that you have no moral fiber and that you lack character you dont find it wrong to cheat. That if you can find a way to benefit yourself by breaking the rules, its just fine if the payday is big enough. I find it appalling that you feel comfortable enough to come on here and say that its ok to cheat whatever the reason.
Maybee no one told you this but most of us wouldnt cheat because its wrong, not because we are afraid of getting caught.

ls01

really, except that it is a race in France and there system is actually the other way round. now what?

learnmedia

I just heard Sherwen's and Liggett's comments about the timing of the latest WSJ article on the Versus broadcast. WTF? They don't really believe that Floyd controls when articles get published, do they?

ls01

Something else for consideration.
For those of you who want to point out that FL received A million for his defense fund. sure thats bad but what if he is telling the truth? Look how much LA has gained for his lie.

Just so there is no misunderstanding. I have NO opinion about whether or not LA did or did not do anything. Fl has made some pretty amazing accusations, which may or mayn't have merit. We will see. But I will not give anyone a free pass just because they are philanthropic.

patentcad

oh relax

Hunt-man

Just listened to the Vesus commentators discuss Landis and I think they got it exactly right. Brief though the discussion was.

patentcad

I need peds today. Pool enhancing drugs. But all I'll get is diet soda and bad coffee.

So it goes.

patentcad

Hey whatever. The truth will out, that's almost inevitable. Whether Floyd was a liar and now he's telling the truth, nothing loosens lips like the weight of the Feds. People don't like the thought of going to friggin jail. I really do think the pro cycling code of silence is about to get cracked.

On the other hand, if this doesn't precipitate a wave of corroborating witnesses, maybe there's nothing there. I'm actually with gsteinb on that score, I find the notion that Lance didn't dope in an age of doping hard to believe. We just differ on the ethical and moral conclusions. It will be fascinating to watch this play out.

In the meantime, the Tour is more fun to watch.

Bah Humbug

Which is all relevant how? I don't recall anyone debating whether Lance is a fantastic athlete. Being a fantastic athlete doesn't put you above the law. Ask Plaxico about that one.

learnmedia

So you believe FL is now managing editor of the Wall Street Journal, making the final decisions about editorial content and when articles are published? Sherwen and Liggett are far from objective when Lance is involved. They basically have served and continue to serve as part of his PR machine.

Soloist Assassin

Why does everyone have to persecute pros for doping? You should all step back and learn something from what Landis is saying. I for one, plan to buy an 8-ball, and hit up the strip club the night before my next race.

mollusk

I lost both of my parents to cancer. And I have negative feelings about Livestrong.

gsteinb

You just don't get it.

mollusk

Probably not.

RT

Man, what a Debbie Downer this thread/story is. If anyone has learned anything from BF, it's that the truth can be twisted into lies, and the positive can be squelched into negativity.

And ALL without first-hand knowledge or experience in any of this. The conjecture in here is like reading a fairy tale. We are all amateurs and weekend warriors, and most of us don't even race. Just watch the race and let the journalists, er sorry, sensationalists do their job.

Bah Humbug

It's interesting that they don't seem to be able to comprehend someone not reacting the way they do.

Bah Humbug

I'd rather ride my bike than watch someone else ride theirs. I'll watch sports on the 8th when football starts.

Soloist Assassin

I agree, and disagree here. I too would rather ride my bike than watch someone else ride theirs. That being said TDF is the only TV viewing I will watch this year, but it will be on rainy days, or at night after I have ridden already. Football, sheesh, screw that crap.