chaadster

Sure, it's good looking, but really, those two Masi Gran Criteriums (the "old" '15 and the inbound new one) really sum up the core reality of this thread perfectly: being modern is not just being new. It's iconoclasm vs. connoisseurship.

The '15 GC is a "throwback" bike, harking back to a period more than 40 years ago, when polished lugs, silver components, skinny tubes, steel forks, and natural tan saddles were the standard. Yes, it's a brand new bike, fitted with current Campagnolo components, but everything about it is old. The appeal is old. The paint job is old.

The incoming ('16?) GC really upsets the apple cart, and is a thoroughly modern bike with a completely modern appeal. It's TIG welded, has modern wheels, a modern colorway, and the kind of geometry that could be found on the latest carbon bike. It's the antithesis of the previous model, and presents steel in a context which need not excuse itself on a starting line, or attract fond reminiscences from all the old fogies at a group ride. Yet, at the same time, the atypical saddle color, the pump, the Campagnolo gruppo, the skinwall tires...together they speak to a certain aesthetic that's just left of center, and likely to be chosen by buyers with the experience to know what they want, rather than following the trends on the sales floor.

Which is not to say that "modern steel" couldn't be a trend on the sales floor (though I do think it's unlikely), but rather that it simply isn't.

Anyway, I just think those two bikes sum it up so perfectly.

Fiery

I don't think I've seen a Gaulzetti on this thread. Eagerly awaiting the new iteration, in the meantime a Cazzo will do:

chaadster

Looks well done; I don't know Gualzetti so well. But really, it's called a Cazzo? Hahaha!

Fiery

Yeah, they have a specific sense of humor. Going through a big reimagining of the brand that will make a lot of that spirit less obvious, but the quality should stay tue same. The nickname of the brand will forever be "the cock" (note the rooster on the seat tube).

DMC707

Yes --- posting up the pic of the lugged steel MAsi but with a threadless fork and modern gruppo --- just serves to make a lot of these "new school " steel rides look like steamy piles of horse manure
The Italians - (and the many Belgians, Americans, Canadians, and others) had it right 40 years ago ---- doesnt make some of these bike's wrong, -- but i dare say most who will pony up 3k for a steel frame are traditionalists

DMC707

What geometry differences are there? - Frame design is different than an actual geometry issue

I cant find the new school GC you pictured , but i compared the geometry on the "retro" bike to their Evoluzione carbon Dura Ace bike , and the differences in geometry are so slight most wouldnt be able to pick up on them
https://www.masibikes.com/bikes/carb...-dura-ace-2016

And thankfully -- this is still a sport where someone on the line in a Cat 1/2/3 criterium does not have to make any excuses for machinery -- even if he/she is on a 21 lb lugged steel bike. Its uncanny how the fastest and the strongest manage to find ways to win no matter what level of machinery they are riding

TimothyH

One for sale here in Atlanta.



2015 Gaulzetti Corsa w/Campy Record

3alarmer 

...regret to say that is not an old Masi. This is an old, American made Masi:

DMC707

I wonder what the scam is with this one --- $2200 bucks for a $7500 bike thats less than a year old? Seems like more Craigslist shenanigans

DMC707

I dare say ---- if you can dial up 12-1300 watts in minute 44 of a 45 minute crit with the finish line in sight ---- the checkered flag is not going to care if you cross under on a new Venge, - or that Masi with the DT shifters

Lord knows i am trying to come up with the next "Dial it up to 400 and drope the hamer" type comment --- but all too often people just nod and say -- Damn, he's probably right !

bleui

the 2011 version is still my favorite gran crit, shame I missed the opportunity to own one back then

bleui

Does Raleigh stop their International line-ups?

kbarch

Yes, gorgeous. The rear triangle is especially interesting. Normally you see the ends of the seat stays at the intersection of the top tube and seat post, or slightly below, but here they are in line with the top tube, but just behind the seat post. Scrolling through, I only notice one vintage Fresci from the '70s, and a new Ritchey with a similar detail.


I didn't notice that detail on the Ritchey the first time around, but it looks like a thoroughly modern bike to me. The detail on the Ellis, however, is resolved a bit more elegantly, but there it looks more classic. In both cases, I think it's a cool detail. Never cared for this detail where it looks like they just mashed the tops of the seat stays up on the sides of the other tubes:
.

Gaur

Genesis volare 30 -2015 just reynolds 725 and shimano 105's and I send kisses to her everytime I pass by her side

rpenmanparker 

That is known as "fastback" seat stays. It was very popular in the '80s.

To me that bike looks too small for the rider. Lots of seatpost and lots of spacers. I guess it could be about getting the shorter top tube since the stem isn't terribly long.

jbchybridrider 

Stelbel Rodano

kbarch

Thanks, Bob! Now that you mention it, I seem to recall hearing that term ages ago in reference to a certain bike design.

In case anyone else didn't know and is interested, following up on this, we learn that the "mashed up against the side of the tubes" is more properly known as "side tack," (as in tack weld, presumably) and the example given above is a kind of "plug style," as opposed to "flat cap" (referring to the treatment of what would otherwise be an open tube end).

chaadster

You may dare say, but you can't substantiate it. My point was exactly the opposite, and Masi's move, because I see it not in isolation, and rather on the heels of both a revitalized interest in steel frames both on the commercial level and the custom level as well as a generational shift amongst cyclists which sees those who grew up racing in the '70s yield to the "MTB generation," those who grew up with a wider perspective on cycling and a spirit of innovation in both road (e.g. Lemond) and MTB, as the dominant consumer for new, premium segment bicycles.

That's why, unlike you, I don't see Masi's move as a wrong-headed change that bucks market trends. It's precisely a trendy move by a brand which has made its stake in following them.

Even the real Masi, from his shop at the Vigorelli velodrome, isn't hanging his hat on his traditionalist legacy, but that's another story.

rpenmanparker 

The plug style was popularized on mid-period steel Treks, after they became successful enough as a mass marketer to consider some production modifications to lower the cost of their process. They investment cast the "plugs", little lugs for attaching the stays to the down tube.

chaadster

The seatstay talk got me thinking about one of the rarer executions in road steel, the wishbone, and one in particular from a builder who is hard to put into either the modern or traditional camp, Chris DeKerf. Certainly he's an artisan, and he makes a bike that could have been made 40 years ago, but wasn't (insofar as I know; they say there's nothing new under the sun, though!), the Prodigy.

Aside from the wishbone and the seat cluster, the frame is pretty traditional in most respects, like the tube diameters, level TT, and DT shift boss cable stops. He can render a steel fork, the Tuning Fork, in the pierced wishbone design, too, which is a cool, artsy take on a traditional steel fork without being old school in appearance.

DMC707

put up a poll with a pic of the new oversize and sloping GC. Vs the traditionally styled one from '15 then , -- that will substantiate it for either of us -- i'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of the forum to do so but am curious myself


old man Masi may be ok with it but thats because he is resting on pillow cases stuffed full of cash at night from the buyout years ago
The bulk of Masi's sales now seem to be low to mid range aluminum and lower end carbon bikes sold through big box retailers.

Just as the bulk of Trek or Specialized's sales are likely lower end mountain bikes----- true high end road bikes are still a relatively small slice of any of the big brand's pie


I'm happy to see nice bikes from them whether retro or not, but they've put too many turds in the punch bowl with the rest of the cheap junk they put out.

chaadster

Alberto Masi is not affiliated with Masi USA, which are the bikes in question, and I don't know wherher he is ok with it or not, but I don't think his opinion matters one iota at Masi USA.

Whatever the results of a BF RF poll may be, they would say nothing about the greater market forces. If you want to understand the market, look at the market.

DMC707

The general road bike market is carbon fiber equipped with Shimano 105 (not really low end - these are 2-2500$ bikes, - but they look like what Wiggo and Alberto ride, are pretty light and have a pretty good blend of performance and value)

However -- a nice cross section of people who like steel bikes is right here in this thread

link to new poll

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...iums-poll.html

dr_lha

That's my bike. I could probably lose some spacers. I set up the max spacers when I did the build, so I could cut the tube later if necessary. I never did. I was just thinking of taking out 20mm the other day in fact.

As you correctly guess, as I have a 90mm stem, the 59cm frame has too long a top tube for my body shape. So I went with the 57cm. Given the slope on the top tube I don't think the seat post is to exposed, but whatever it fits me.

Jarrett2

Looks fine to me as well.