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Rims??

Old 08-17-16, 04:39 PM
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Rims??

I have some DT swiss 240s rr1.1 wheels I got with a used bike. The rear wheel goes out of true every couple rides. It beens in the shop every time. Its a 28 spoke wheel, could it be my weight, 205?? If so any thoughts on a different rim?
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Old 08-17-16, 05:40 PM
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That's a pretty solid wheel. I would make sure the spoke tensions are even. If it's been trued several times by a hack mechanic, spoke tensions could be all over the place. This would cause it come out of true easily.
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Old 08-18-16, 06:14 AM
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205lbs on a 28 spoke rear is pushing it. What is the spoke gauge? At your weight, 32 spokes is minimal, 36 is better.
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Old 08-18-16, 06:50 AM
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Noodle soup is right. You are not overweight for those wheels. They are very likely seriously cocked up tension wise. Also possible that there is spoke windup when the mechanic finishes. Then when you take the first ride, you hear a "ping" as each of the spokes unwinds and throws the wheels out of true. Job security for the mechanic, but you will never fix the wheel that way. My guess is you need the wheels totally detensioned and then retensioned and trued by a COMPETENT wheelbuilder. Not an LBS mechanic.
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Old 08-18-16, 06:51 AM
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Old 08-18-16, 07:19 AM
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Spoke count doesn't tell us much about the suitability of the wheel to the user; type of spokes, lacing pattern and hub design are very important factors. In the greatest likelihood, no, those are not "too few spokes" for your weight.

I agree with the assessment that something is off, be it spoke tension, build quality (e.g. Spokeprep?), or a rim issue. I think the RR 1.1 was initially troublesome, then replaced with a double eyelet version, but still disco'd soon thereafter. I wonder which you have?

In any case, I wouldn't spend more than another $25-$30 on a retension elsewhere, and if that doesn't work, just replace the pair with a new wheelset.
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Old 08-18-16, 05:00 PM
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Same weight. Rear spoke count is 20. No problems.
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Old 08-19-16, 06:19 AM
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Learn to true it yourself. It is a basic skill that every serious cyclist should know - plenty of DIY info on the web, hard to go wrong.

Detension all the spokes and retrue. You can do it on the bike or buy a jig on the web.
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Old 08-19-16, 02:54 PM
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There is much more than spoke count that creates a strong wheel. This isn't 1980 anymore. I'm fine on 24 spokes way over your weight. See a competent wheel builder.
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Old 08-19-16, 04:31 PM
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I've not had good results with bike shop mechanics working on my wheels. It seems that spoke tension has been greatly variable. While spoke tension may vary some, that tension should not vary wildly. I've learned to true or respoke my own wheels.
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Old 08-19-16, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 99Klein
There is much more than spoke count that creates a strong wheel. This isn't 1980 anymore. I'm fine on 24 spokes way over your weight. See a competent wheel builder.

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Old 08-19-16, 06:56 PM
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either badly uneven tension or insufficient total tension. I bought a pair of machine built wheels. Tensions were pretty even but 96 rear drive side wasn't enough to stay true I brought it up to 120 kgf and it has been rock solid since.
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Old 08-22-16, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Where are you?
CT I don't know a wheel builder around here
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Old 08-22-16, 03:31 AM
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also, your tire volume and pressure???
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Old 08-22-16, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by steelbead
I have some DT swiss 240s rr1.1 wheels I got with a used bike. The rear wheel goes out of true every couple rides. It beens in the shop every time. Its a 28 spoke wheel, could it be my weight, 205?? If so any thoughts on a different rim?
If not racing, I'd recommend 36 spokes.

DT Swiss stainless steel spokes, brass nipples, double walled aluminium rims, and Shimano hubs of Deore class (for durability), or Tiagra/105 for road bike use.

Wheels can be made decently with less spokes, but you gain nothing, except less durable wheel. Unless racing that is.

Explained the wheel construction along with my point of view on the topic in this article:

Wheels and spokes
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Old 08-23-16, 12:36 AM
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omg, enough with the he needs 36 spoke wheels cause he's 205#'s replies, like someone else said technology has advanced since the 1980's! i'm 240#'s and i use 16/20 Ultegra 6800's (with 23's i may add) with well over 2000 miles and they haven't needed to be trued once since i put them on my EVO...

like others have said, i would say it has to do with the tension of the spokes being off. maybe the person that owned the bike before you popped a spoke or two and the mechanic that fixed it never de-laced then re-laced the entire wheel to get the spoke tensions as close to what they should be as possible...

OP, i don't know where you are, but it kinda sounds like you're in the middle of nowhere. do you have a bike shop in your area that could maybe de-lace then re-lace your wheel, to make sure the tension is right all around the wheel?! if not, you could buy a new set of wheels, but then you would be looking at say $300ish...
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Old 08-23-16, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX
omg, enough with the he needs 36 spoke wheels cause he's 205#'s replies, like someone else said technology has advanced since the 1980's! i'm 240#'s and i use 16/20 Ultegra 6800's (with 23's i may add) with well over 2000 miles and they haven't needed to be trued once since i put them on my EVO...

like others have said, i would say it has to do with the tension of the spokes being off. maybe the person that owned the bike before you popped a spoke or two and the mechanic that fixed it never de-laced then re-laced the entire wheel to get the spoke tensions as close to what they should be as possible...

OP, i don't know where you are, but it kinda sounds like you're in the middle of nowhere. do you have a bike shop in your area that could maybe de-lace then re-lace your wheel, to make sure the tension is right all around the wheel?! if not, you could buy a new set of wheels, but then you would be looking at say $300ish...
It's simple physics. Steel has been the same strength in 1980's as it is now. 36 is better in all terms except weight - and that is just a small difference, since the low spoke count requires heavier, stronger spokes, and heavier, stiffer rim.

It is understood that the wheel also needs to be laced, trued properly, with good and even spoke tension. Regardless of the number of spokes used.

Wider tyres, with more volume, also help absorb road bumps and shocks, helping the wheel as well.
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Old 08-23-16, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar
It's simple physics. Steel has been the same strength in 1980's as it is now. 36 is better in all terms except weight - and that is just a small difference, since the low spoke count requires heavier, stronger spokes, and heavier, stiffer rim.

It is understood that the wheel also needs to be laced, trued properly, with good and even spoke tension. Regardless of the number of spokes used.

Wider tyres, with more volume, also help absorb road bumps and shocks, helping the wheel as well.
It's not simple physics if it doesn't accurately describe the world as observed.

There are tons of people, like myself, heavier than the OP, who have done tens of thousands of miles on low spoke count wheels without any problems. And I'm not even defining low, as you might, to include 32 spoke wheels, but rather 24 and fewer.

As for steel being the same since the 80s, I wonder when cold-forged aero section spokes hit the market? Cold forging makes spokes stronger.

And speaking as someone who was riding in 80s, it sure seems wheels are objectively better today.
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Old 08-23-16, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
It's not simple physics if it doesn't accurately describe the world as observed.

There are tons of people, like myself, heavier than the OP, who have done tens of thousands of miles on low spoke count wheels without any problems. And I'm not even defining low, as you might, to include 32 spoke wheels, but rather 24 and fewer.

As for steel being the same since the 80s, I wonder when cold-forged aero section spokes hit the market? Cold forging makes spokes stronger.

And speaking as someone who was riding in 80s, it sure seems wheels are objectively better today.
I don't argue a wheel can be built well with fewer than 36 spokes.
I don't argue new wheel with 24 spokes being stronger than old steel one with 36 spokes.

I am, however, claiming that 36 spokes (all other things being similar, or equal) will make a stronger wheel, without being noticeably heavier, nor much less aero, than a wheel with fewer spokes.

In addition to that, a broken spoke on a 24 spoke wheel makes a wheel instantly unrideable, rubbing against the frame. On a 36 spoked wheel - you won't even have a brake rub. Also, if the rim has the same profile, the more spokes, the stiffer the wheel.
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Old 08-23-16, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar
I don't argue a wheel can be built well with fewer than 36 spokes.
I don't argue new wheel with 24 spokes being stronger than old steel one with 36 spokes.

I am, however, claiming that 36 spokes (all other things being similar, or equal) will make a stronger wheel, without being noticeably heavier, nor much less aero, than a wheel with fewer spokes.

In addition to that, a broken spoke on a 24 spoke wheel makes a wheel instantly unrideable, rubbing against the frame. On a 36 spoked wheel - you won't even have a brake rub. Also, if the rim has the same profile, the more spokes, the stiffer the wheel.
Okay, but that is different from saying that 36 is better in all terms except weight, and that there are no advantages to lower spoke count wheels except when racing.

I absolutely agree we each have to prioritize our needs when making wheel choices; all wheels are not equal. A loaded tourist crossing sparsely inhabited areas will have a different view of their wheel needs than the urban sport cyclist who loves stoplight sprints. For example, a broken spoke resulting in the tourist's wheel being unrideable could put their life in jeopardy, but such an instance for the urban sprinter might mean they walk a block to a subway stop or pop in a cafe for a latte to go while waiting for a ride or Uber.

So we assess the risks and benefits; I for example, have not had nor even seen a spoke broken on a ride in many years, and I usually ride with a group, so my perspective on spoke breakage is that it really doesn't happen or is extremely rare. However, in those same many years, I've had literally countless moments when I was giving 100% efforts trying to outride my friends or get a personal record, so my perspective on advantages is that they're very important, and since we're talking about differences of a seconds,'every little advantage helps. More weight, less aero, and strength beyond what I need are not avantages, but penalties.

Others will weight attributes differently, and that's OK, but it's also why I objected to your earlier assertions that one who weights differently than you do "gains nothing unless racing," and that 36 spoke wheels are better in every way except weight.
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Old 08-23-16, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Okay, but that is different from saying that 36 is better in all terms except weight, and that there are no advantages to lower spoke count wheels except when racing.
But... that's exactly what I'm saying and explaining. Slight weight reduction, at the cost of lower durability is only paid off if racing. There are places to make a light and quick recreation/utility bicycle, but fewer spokes is not where I'd decide to cut.

Originally Posted by chaadster
I absolutely agree we each have to prioritize our needs when making wheel choices; all wheels are not equal. A loaded tourist crossing sparsely inhabited areas will have a different view of their wheel needs than the urban sport cyclist who loves stoplight sprints. For example, a broken spoke resulting in the tourist's wheel being unrideable could put their life in jeopardy, but such an instance for the urban sprinter might mean they walk a block to a subway stop or pop in a cafe for a latte to go while waiting for a ride or Uber.

So we assess the risks and benefits; I for example, have not had nor even seen a spoke broken on a ride in many years, and I usually ride with a group, so my perspective on spoke breakage is that it really doesn't happen or is extremely rare. However, in those same many years, I've had literally countless moments when I was giving 100% efforts trying to outride my friends or get a personal record, so my perspective on advantages is that they're very important, and since we're talking about differences of a seconds,'every little advantage helps. More weight, less aero, and strength beyond what I need are not avantages, but penalties.
The way you've explained it - you are, in fact, racing.

Originally Posted by chaadster
Others will weight attributes differently, and that's OK, but it's also why I objected to your earlier assertions that one who weights differently than you do "gains nothing unless racing," and that 36 spoke wheels are better in every way except weight.
I'm still claiming that. It is so. Lower weight, and not by very much, is the only upside of having fewer spokes. Everything else is worse.
If it were a substantial weight reduction, I could argue that it would be more useful - if one wants to carry a lighter bike, but this way - minimal gain, only noticeable at a stopwatch (or racing face to face).
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Old 08-23-16, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar
But... that's exactly what I'm saying and explaining. Slight weight reduction, at the cost of lower durability is only paid off if racing. There are places to make a light and quick recreation/utility bicycle, but fewer spokes is not where I'd decide to cut.



The way you've explained it - you are, in fact, racing.



I'm still claiming that. It is so. Lower weight, and not by very much, is the only upside of having fewer spokes. Everything else is worse.
If it were a substantial weight reduction, I could argue that it would be more useful - if one wants to carry a lighter bike, but this way - minimal gain, only noticeable at a stopwatch (or racing face to face).
Ah, defining race such as you do...fair enough, though it did deserve explaining.

So we are in agreement, except you have forgotten the one, greatest advantage of low spoke count wheels: ease and speed of cleaning!
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Old 08-23-16, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Ah, defining race such as you do...fair enough, though it did deserve explaining.

So we are in agreement, except you have forgotten the one, greatest advantage of low spoke count wheels: ease and speed of cleaning!
fair enough.
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Old 08-23-16, 05:24 PM
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The wheel seems okay now. After that initial spoke loosened up, it seems to be okay now. Two good rides and its okay. I'll keep an eye on it.
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Old 08-23-16, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
So we are in agreement, except you have forgotten the one, greatest advantage of low spoke count wheels: ease and speed of cleaning!
Amen, brother! And not just ease of cleaning, but also ease of building, truing, measuring tension. All easier with fewer spokes.
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