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Campagnolo Record hubs anyone?

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Campagnolo Record hubs anyone?

Old 08-31-19, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
You want to go Italian and exotic look at Extralite. I caught so much greif putting my kid on these 4 years ago and most the other standard stuff has broken since then. On team bike and some of his.
https://www.extralite.com/Products/CyberRear%20SP.htm
That's pretty sexy for a cartridge bearing hub... Surprised about your longevity claim though, since the hub shell doesn't appear to be forged.
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Old 08-31-19, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
That's pretty sexy for a cartridge bearing hub... Surprised about your longevity claim though, since the hub shell doesn't appear to be forged.
They are the main racing hubs, 200 plus races, rebuilt rims after being destroyed in Europe.

Next pair on climbers.

Next pair disc MTB

So got 6 hubs.

Then stem, seat post. They are a level above Campy when you read and install according to manual. Have torque wrench. I have lots of Campy.
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Old 09-02-19, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by garciawork
​​
I can't speak directly to the Shamal's, but I knew a guy with them and they were great. I had two set's of Fulcrum Racing 3 2 way fit's (Eurus, basically, AFAIK), and after years of ownership, they were still as truw as the day I got them. Would totally buy again.
Sorry, late coming back to this thread.

A few notes - not intended to be a wheel builder 101 but just strands gathered from some of the answers above ...

Note - I am not anti-tech and not a Luddite or a Mugwump (I can't be with my job).but I do have a lot of experience - I've been round the block a few times and prefer to deal in the real world, not in marketing-speak. I speak as I find, which doesn't always make me the salesman's friend ...

Eurus or Shamal, if you are going off-the-shelf, these are really, really durable wheels but yes, they do use a proprietory sppke - very, very rare to need one but in the case of crash damage etc. it can be a pain. In California (and yes, I appreciate it's a big place), you have Campagnolo NA in Carlsbad, though - they can assist with spares availability and competent help in spoke replacement - if there is one weakness in G3 and to a lesser extent, Fulcrum 2:1 design, it's that the wheelbuilder doing a repair needs to know what they are doing with those designs specifically. G3 wheels do not behave like "standard" wheels when being tensioned / trued!
.
The main difference is indeed the USB beauing in Shamal, vs steel-on-steel in Eurus. Eurus has alloy hubs, Shamal is alloy flanges on carbon (small weight difference), there are some other options in Shamal (Mille rim treatment, as well as black with polished braking surfaces) and Shamals have a wider internal on the rim, now - C17. C17 and Mille treatment don't exist in Eurus (only black hard anodised with machined braking surfaces, C15).

Shimano compatibility - the cassette body can be changed on any Campag wheel or hub for a Shimano-compatible version. There are two, one in alloy with a PEO treatment to harden it sufficiently to withstand the tendency for Shimano cassettes to cut into the cassette body (very shallow splines compared to Campag so small load bearing area - not necessarily a problem where the cassette is made of aseries of sprockets on carriers or a monobloc, like SRAM Red, can be a problem where the cassette is all separate sprockets), the other, around 30g heavier in steel.

Aero - well, it depends how much time you spend above about 40 kmh as to how much it even matters. Even then, it's not all that relevant other than in pretty still air. There's an immense amount of BS talked about the aerodynamics of wheels - most makers quote all their drag figures for 50 - 60 kmh in still air and discount local turbulence which skews the "real world" performance hugely. Yes, they talk about "yaw angles" for crosswind performance - but that "yaw angle" is almost never stable ... have a look at Hambini's figures for lower speed, real world performance and you'll see what I mean. The envelope that wheel makers use in order to come up with claims like "save 50 sec over 40km" is well beyond where most user's wheels spend most of their life, When Campag were optimising the current Bora WTO, they were looking at 40 kph (25 mph) AVERAGE because they were looking at racing cyclists, rather than enthusiasts. That not to say that aero doesn't matter - but the case is massively over-emphasised in most wheel manufacturer's marketing. Many subcontract their aero testing out and in consequence, the testers are often not really au-fait with relatively low speed, non-laminar flow aerodynamics, which is what you are looking at with bicycle wheels. Just because you know what you are doing with a cleanly-shaped F1 car doing 300kph plus, doesn't necessarily mean you know what you are doing with an aerodynamically complex structure like a bicycle wheel going at 30 kph ... testing regimes should be totally different but often aren't.

Spinning weight - a well-conceived pair of 32s may and may not be heavier than an off-the-shelf "aero" wheel but build with alloy nipples and Sapim Super Spokes or DT Revolutions, say, and the wheel weight might not be as high as you'd think - plus they'd be totally serviceable from materials that are widely available - virtually any off-the-shelf wheel, you'd be well advised to use the OE spoke (generally proprietary) in a repair. There are plenty of sub 400g rims out there in 32 drilling ... although choice is not as wide as it once was.

Specific or proprietary (OEM) spokes - it's always going to be an expensive pair of wheels, if you are looking to "beat" a well made set of 32s etc and what's the point in spending the money to do that, and then compromising by using an After-Market(AM) spoke in repair? Most builders, even, don't realise that when Campag, Easton etc spec their spokes with Sapim, or whoever their supplier is, they ask for tweaks, for reasons of price, or a specific performance gain, or to suit the hub design - so although the spokes often superficially resemnle an AM item (say, like a Sapim CX-Ray etc), usually they are different - it can be small dimensional differences in things like the head or the elbow, it can be blade dimensions, it can be materials - 18/0 stainless, say, instead of 18/6 - but the fewer spokes you have, at higher tensions, the more these differences, post repair, will influence how the wheel behaves long term. So check whether the spokes in your factory-built wheel of choice are OEM or, wherher, like Hope, they use a normal AM spoke ... and then look at how freely available they are and the relative cost.

Lower spoke counts - It's true, a light rider can often use a lower spoke count and many aero wheel use a lower spoke count - again, how "low you go" depends on intended use and the actual components. Remember that any wheel with a lower spoke count will have to have a higher spoke tension per spoke - no getting away from that in the mechanics of how a wheel transfers loads - which means that not only are there longer un-supported arcs of rim between the spokes (because there are fewer of them on the same circumference) but as they (in general) alternate, the rim can tend to "S" slightly. More important, if a spoke does fail. the wheel will go a long way out of true and may not even pass through the forks or frame any more, especially with wider tyres. This can be an important consideration for some users. In factory wheels, 2:1, G3 and paired spoke lacings like Rolf / Bontrager are designed in part to combat the tendency of the rim to "S" but they all suffer from the "wheel goes a long way out of true" problem if a spoke should fail for any reason.

Hub bodies - most of the boutique hubs use a body CNC'd from billet which *can* give issued around flange strength - Hope, Chris King etc use a slightly thicker lange and space the hub drillings further "in" from the edge of the flange (which increases the cahallenges for the wheel builder) but you still have to pay attention if you are looking at low spoke counts and radial lacing. Also pay attention to the bearing seats if you are lacing radially, especially if that is contrary to the hub manufacturer's recomendation - you can actually open up the beraing seating slightly, giving rise to loose-fitting bearings and possible noise / movement issues. Campag hubs (as distinct from the hubs in their built wheels) use melt-forged bodies so the flanges are well-shaped and extremely strong and the crystals in the metal are omni-directional, rather than the tendency in most billet, where they are more mono-directional leading to potential directional weakness. We don't advise radial building in Campag hubs unless they are in a factory built wheel - but for a light rider with a relatively light, flexible spoke, you should be OK. I am 70kgs / 154 lbs and routinely ride a radial 28H front built with Sapim CX-Ray at 120kgs tension and have only rarely broken a Campag hub flange (maybe twice in 20+ years) ... but it is a risk, especially on rougher roads or if your style is more "wrestle the bike" than "power poured on like honey" ... that's where you have to trust your wheelbuilder..

Good builder in SoCal - I'll ask some colleagues of mine there and come back to you ...

Last edited by gfk_velo; 09-02-19 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 09-02-19, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
OP, at you weight, you could easily go 20h front and 24h rear. 32 would be overkill, unless your goal is to build an incredibly solid and overbuilt wheelset. And yes, they will be unnecessarily heavy and will not be terribly aerodynamic.
That's not really true.

First, define what you mean by "heavy" - spinning weight and how far out from the hub centre (the further out the weight is, the more influence on acceleration as well as the "feel" of the wheel it has). A good number of "aero" wheels place a lot of the weight peripherally (hence using carbon rather than alloy) ... a "heavier" wheel with the weight predominantly at the centre will often out-accelerate and feel "lighter" than a low spoke-count aero wheel, especially given that the rim often needs to be beefed up to account for the generally higher spoke tensions needed as spoke count falls and are in consequence heavier - the weight losses from reducing the spoke count are not necessarily compensated as a result..

As for aero, yes, more spokes do create more turbulence in still air - but by the time you take real world, relatively chaotic arirflow into account, especially around the back wheel, the effects at relatively low speeds (30-35kmh) are not as great as you might imagine. Wheels account for roughly 3% of the aerodynamic drag of the rider / bike complex so practicality can sometimes score over aerodynamics. The best wheels are real-world as well as wind-tunnel tested and the best wheels for the job are not necessarily the lightest / most aero / have the fewest spokes.

That's the skill of a wheel builder - I can teach almost anyone to build a serviceable, durable, 32 or 36H tangentailly laced wheel in a couple of days - the "black art" is in matching the components to the rider's needs and making the wheel that is tuned to them, specifically.

That's definitely, definitely, not to say - "handbuilt good, factory-built bad" or anything like it - but it should always be taken into account that a factory built wheel is always a series of compromises as the designer has to assume rider weight between around 50kgs and 110 kgs, has to assume very mixed surfaces, has to assume a wide variety of use conditions and a wide spread of inclination to maintain the wheels ... so in many cases, a built-for-the-job solution is better. A well designed and built set of radial and cross 32s might well out-perform a super whizz-bang aero set of wheels for a lighter rider who mostly rides at around 30 - 35kph, for instance.

Last edited by gfk_velo; 09-02-19 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 09-02-19, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert A
Thanks, GFK. Wonderful post! Would love to ask a few follow up questions.

1 - Will Campy Record work with Shimano cassettes?
2 - If Campy hubs are 32 holes, does the higher spoke count cause a negative impact on wheel weight, aerodynamics and responsiveness? I'm 140 pounds and was looking at custom wheels with far fewer spokes.

In comparison to Record hubs with custom-built alloy wheels with HED, Easton or Boyd rims, what are your thoughts about the Shamal Ultra wheelset? I've read good things about Shamal, but the specs indicate that the internal width at 17c is narrower than the others. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

Lastly, can you recommend any wheel builders in So Cal (Los Angeles)?

Thank you,
Robert
Please see my (rather long) posts below, Robert.

Bear in mind that as a light rider, you won't get as much advantage out of the current (and in some ways, misguided) trend for wider tyres. 25s at 90-95psi would probably be somewhere near optimum on good surfaces. You just don't need to run 28s or 32s - I'd argue that pretty much no-one of your weight does in the real world, on paved roads.

Shamal Ultra / Mille - very good, strong, reactive wheels, I like them a lot - they are my "go to" wheelset when I don't know what roads I will be riding. I'm 154 pounds, and I say it myself, I ride pretty smoothly, tending to be a lower cadence kind of guy - around 90rpm most of the time. I don't use super-low gears so torque transfer doesn't tend to be so "choppy" as a lot of riders these days. The Shamals with Conti Force and Attack (23/ 25c nominal) are a good combo for me.

The rest of the time I ride 28 / 28 or 28 / 32 with 23s at around 100 - 105 psi, unless I am time-trialling. Then, for me, it's no competition - Bora WTOs, 40mm front, 60mm rear or a disc if I think I have the legs for it.

Conventional spoked wheel scan be light and strong - I rode 28/28 on the amateur Paris Roubaix in 1985 & 86, coying Roger deVlaeminck (I was younfg and impressionable then) and got away with it fine. Not very aero but in 1985 we didn't care and anyway, your wheels spend allmost as much time going up and down on P-R as they do going forwards, in the last 130km, anyway!.
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Old 09-02-19, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gfk_velo
Bear in mind that as a light rider, you won't get as much advantage out of the current (and in some ways, misguided) trend for wider tyres. 25s at 90-95psi would probably be somewhere near optimum on good surfaces. You just don't need to run 28s or 32s - I'd argue that pretty much no-one of your weight does in the real world, on paved roads.
Thank you for both posts. What's the rationale for lighter riders avoiding wider tires? Too much air volume per pound of weight?

Since you have ridden Shamals, do you think the narrower rim (17c) makes it any less desirable than the wider alloy competition (HED/Ardennies, Easton/EA90, etc.) which run closer to 18c-20c?

Last edited by Robert A; 09-02-19 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 09-02-19, 11:07 AM
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@gfk_velo

Thank you for your posts!
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Old 09-02-19, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert A
What's the rationale for lighter riders avoiding wider tires? Too much air volume per pound of weight?
The extra drag and inertia of larger tyres is wasted - you want enough tyre to strike the best compromise between the competing factors at play, and no more.
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Old 09-02-19, 04:22 PM
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Maintainence Simplicity

Iím a framebuilder and also do all of my own wheel builds. If you want a hub thatís maintainable, easily upgradable, and makes a nice buzz, you canít beat CK. I just had to swap out an XDR driveshell and axle on a 12/142 disc hub that needed straight Shimano 11 speed. It took me 10 minutes using one tool. The hub spins as friction-free as you can imagine. I tuned the bearing preloads just before a race 2 days later in 2 minutes. It would be absurd to accept the limitations of 32 holes only and pointless to compare hub weights with any hub (I9 is terrific, too) that you could buy in 28, 24, etc.
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Old 09-02-19, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert A
Thank you for both posts. What's the rationale for lighter riders avoiding wider tires? Too much air volume per pound of weight?

Since you have ridden Shamals, do you think the narrower rim (17c) makes it any less desirable than the wider alloy competition (HED/Ardennies, Easton/EA90, etc.) which run closer to 18c-20c?
In a way, your question about wider tyres (i.e. tyres with a bigger air volume) is framed from slightly the wrong direction - the real argument is about tyre pressures and whether lower pressures are desirable, which wider tyres facilitate under certain circumstances.

Part of the problem that has long been around is that a good many consumers (and plenty of mechanics, too) see the max pressure on the sidewall as a target, not a maximum. Lighter riders should always have run lower pressures (professional race mechanics have known this for donkey's years) as one way to consider a pneumatic tyre is as part of a suspension system - providing a significant part of the "rebound" element. The rider forms a significant part of the damping element. The more rebound you have (the higher the tyre pressure, amongst other things), the harder the damping (you) has to work.

A bigger air pocket allows a lower pressure with a reduced likelihood of pinch punctures / damage to the rim sidewall - but a lighter rider rider compresses the tyre sidewall less, so in my opinion, tyre size could and should be proportional to rider weight.

Rim width can to some extent dicatate tyre profile - the 23, 25, 28c description is slightly misleading in that it is an experession of the size of the tyre casing itself - the actual profile the tyre adopts can be dictated by several other factors, though, the lay up of the case, the type and thickness of the tread etc ...and the width of the rim. A wider rim tends to produce a less "balloon-shaped" tyre as the bottom edges are not so crimped in by the width of the rim. Wider rims, C19s and C21s can't always mount a 25c tyre in safety, according to the current ETRTO specification, so the user has to factor rim width in against minimum safe tyre width, alongside of brake clearance ...

Because I haven't been all that seduced by the "wider is better philosophy" of tyres (being reasonably light for my height - 6 foot and 154 lbs at the moment, more like 148 when "properly" in shape), I don't find the C17 any kind of handicap. I run Shamal Mille Two-Way-Fit (2WF), with a 23c on the front, a nominal 24c on the back, with tubes - and find the comfort, speed and handling completely to my satisfaction. I tried a set of Hed Ardennes and couldn't, even with my "Grade 1 rose-tinted specs" on, find anything in them I liked better than the Shamals (or for that matter, the Bora WTOs).

NB Not all the Campag C17 rims can be run with 23s though they can all be run with 25s.
Zonda C17s are 25c minimum, Sciroccos, Khamsins and Calimas likewise. Shamal non 2WF have not been tested with 23cs, nor have Bora 35s or 50s in either version. Bora WTOs have in all versions and they're fine (they are also tubeless ready).

It's maybe worth saying that rims with a solid floor (ie not drilled for access to the spokes, so needing some type of introducer - in Campag's case, a magnetic implant that is used to place the nipples ) and a wider profile tend to be torsionally stiffer than their fully drilled betherin - so if ultimate torque transfer is what you are after, wheels with a rim of this configuration could be ideal. A wider rim is generally torsionally stiffer than a narrower rim of equivalent depth because the cross-sectional area is greater and rigity in a tube is a function of the square of the cross-sectional area.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:02 PM
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Rims matter. A very stiff rim makes the spoke situation mostly static. A flexi rim makes it much more dynamic meaning every rotation of the wheel the tension on the spokes change (more than the stiff rim).
I am ~230#. I run 16/18 (both) on the front last 20 years. No broken spokes.
I run 20 hole cx-ray on the front of the 400# tandem. No broken spokes. 24 rear with disc and bigger spokes. I did break 14g DT spokes in the 80s in a 32 hole wheel on a single ~ 200#. I also broke a spoke on the Nibble Fly (1990s) 24mm profile 16 hole radial on the front of the tandem - still ~400#. But those spokes were not what we have now. And, that was too light and too narrow a profile rim.

Primarily the rims changed. Straight pull, J-bend, cross, over under, tie and solder etc may all have something to do with it a bit, but mostly, it is the rims.
I assume many folks can build wheels correctly. Many can't, but my focus assumes a correct build.

Anyway, my opinion is a Campy hub build depends a lot on the rim. With a good 50mm (I'd go less) profile rim, I'd have no issues riding it at ~230# radial lace. If you can't do that, then they really should not even be in the game where @800g a pair you can get wheels that will.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
The extra drag and inertia of larger tyres is wasted - you want enough tyre to strike the best compromise between the competing factors at play, and no more.
Which is why tubulars will win for as long as I can imagine.

A ~23mm tubular rides like a ~25clincher - and at a lot less mass.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
Rims matter. A very stiff rim makes the spoke situation mostly static. A flexi rim makes it much more dynamic meaning every rotation of the wheel the tension on the spokes change (more than the stiff rim).
I am ~230#. I run 16/18 (both) on the front last 20 years. No broken spokes.
I run 20 hole cx-ray on the front of the 400# tandem. No broken spokes. 24 rear with disc and bigger spokes. I did break 14g DT spokes in the 80s in a 32 hole wheel on a single ~ 200#. I also broke a spoke on the Nibble Fly (1990s) 24mm profile 16 hole radial on the front of the tandem - still ~400#. But those spokes were not what we have now. And, that was too light and too narrow a profile rim.

Primarily the rims changed. Straight pull, J-bend, cross, over under, tie and solder etc may all have something to do with it a bit, but mostly, it is the rims.
I assume many folks can build wheels correctly. Many can't, but my focus assumes a correct build.

Anyway, my opinion is a Campy hub build depends a lot on the rim. With a good 50mm (I'd go less) profile rim, I'd have no issues riding it at ~230# radial lace. If you can't do that, then they really should not even be in the game where @800g a pair you can get wheels that will.
Yeah, I reckon low spoke wheels are more reliable - the spokes never go slack, so much less fatigue.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Yeah, I reckon low spoke wheels are more reliable - the spokes never go slack, so much less fatigue.
Cheaper to replace spokes than rims or hubs.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Yeah, I reckon low spoke wheels are more reliable - the spokes never go slack, so much less fatigue.
There is a lot of tension. ~140kgf is for the good stuff. That is a lot of tension to get "slack" via rim deformation. That tension would never have been used on the old higher spoke count 32 hole deals. The Extralite take that no problem. I could not comment 1st hand on Campy. Still beautiful stuff, but as I have posted before...Sometimes you have to give up a bit of quality and performance if you want the very best.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Cheaper to replace spokes than rims or hubs.
I'd like to hear from anyone that broke a DT aerolite or Sapim cx-ray outside of a chain in the spokes or crash.

Spokes on a premier rims (Enve, Mercury, HED, Zipp, ax Lightness) well built don't break anymore. There are handling, performance considerations but not really breaking ones.

The Campy hubs - we should consider that.

Last edited by Doge; 09-03-19 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 09-03-19, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
I'd like to hear from anyone that broke a DT aerolite or Sapim cx-ray outside of a chain in the spokes or crash.
+1. If the spoke doesn't break when you're pre-stressing the wheel, it's not going to break in normal service. Except for fatigue failures, of course - which high tension pretty much rules out .
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Old 09-03-19, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
+1. If the spoke doesn't break when you're pre-stressing the wheel, it's not going to break in normal service. Except for fatigue failures, of course - which high tension pretty much rules out .
Your agreeing with me so much...sorry to bring up, pre stressing is not always needed. A straight pull on rim with spoke beads needs no pre or post stress. There is no j bend, no washer or feral to seat. A soft flanged Campy...yup. Another Extralite thing.
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Old 09-03-19, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
A straight pull on rim with spoke beads needs no pre or post stress.
Spoke beads?
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Old 09-03-19, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Spoke beads?
A j bend spoke can settle in / change length. Esp old DT in Campy hubs. Some of that was the hub alloy deforming, some was the spoke. Neither need to be issues now.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:05 PM
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@gfk_velo, thank you for your thorough and informative posts regarding hubs in general and Campa hubs in specific.

I have been using all-Campa components since I bought my Bottecchia new in 1989.

On my Bottecchia and Master I run Campa Record hubs laced to Ambrosio Excellence rims. The combination of Campa and Ambrosio is totally bombproof. As an added bonus, the hubs run extremely smooth and responsive.

On the C59 and C60 I run Fulcrum Racing One, Ltd. Edition for the C59 and Racing Zero Nite for the C60, respectively.

The Fulcrum wheels are fantastic, they are light and strong. When mated to the Fulcrum hubs (essentially Campa Record hubs) these wheels are hard to beat.

I also want to second your comments about Campagnolo’s Carlsbad center. They have been exceptionally responsive to my questions and concerns.

There are a lot of high quality hubs out there; as cyclists we are the beneficiaries of a great deal of advanced R&D that makes cycling a lot more enjoyable than it has ever been.

For my money, however, Campa components, especially their hubs, are hard to beat.

Again, thank you for your very informative posts, it is a pleasure reading through them.
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Old 09-04-19, 05:58 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Doge
A j bend spoke can settle in / change length. Esp old DT in Campy hubs. Some of that was the hub alloy deforming, some was the spoke. Neither need to be issues now.
Yeah, that's why I like straight pull, and come to think of it, I don't know if I've bothered to to pre-stress anything 20h or under just because the tension seems high enough to seat anything properly anyway. Think I might've built one or two straight pull 24h,but can't remember if I pre-stressed or of habit...

But anyway, what are spoke beads?
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Old 09-04-19, 08:04 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Yeah, that's why I like straight pull, and come to think of it, I don't know if I've bothered to to pre-stress anything 20h or under just because the tension seems high enough to seat anything properly anyway. Think I might've built one or two straight pull 24h,but can't remember if I pre-stressed or of habit...

But anyway, what are spoke beads?
Beads is auto corrected beds when typed from a cell phone.

Old Campy (maybe current) alloy was soft - on purpose. The hole drilling edges were sharp and soft. The J-bend would settle in and deform that edge and become a "bed" where the spoke would nicely contact, more if the lacing was tighter. But even thought the relative change was pretty even the spokes would loose a wee bit of tension. I preferred that to the Phil Wood huge counter sink. The radius was close to the spoke bend, but not the same.
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Old 09-07-19, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
No one I know of selling Campagnolo Record hubs offers it has an option. Prowheelbuider, Colorado Cyclist etc. The Fulcrum Shimano FH body does not list Record compatibility. Fulcrum doesn't even list FH bodies on their site....what is more according to JensonUSA even that part is discontinued.

https://www.modernbike.com/fulcrum-c...ttes-12mm-axle
https://www.jensonusa.com/Fulcrum-Fr...or-ShimanoSram

AFAIK they only support Shimano on their OEM proprietary pre-built wheels. NOT their standalone Record hub.
Nor really true - all the wheels, Campagnolo and Fulcrum, are offered in the After-Market with the option of the Shimano cassette body with (I think) the possible exception of Fulcrum Racing Sport..

There's no issue at all putting a Shimano cassette body onto the Record Hubs and any competent Campagnolo retailer can do it in about 30 sec flat.

The hub internals are the same dimensions on all the Campagnolo wheels from Zonda upwards, all the Fulcrum wheels from Racing 3 upwards and are shared with the Record rear hub. front hubs there are some dimension variations from 2015 onwards according to the year - but basically if the wheel is Zonda or higher and has a design date post-2015, the front hub internals are all interchangeable, too.

The differences (where there are differences) are in the materials used, as noted above - steel-steel, ceramic-steel or ceramic-stainless ...
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Old 04-01-24, 06:35 PM
  #50  
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Searching for 40h rear track hub

Originally Posted by gfk_velo
I have to declare an interest here - I am Campag's head tech in the UK ... I'm also a custom wheelbuilder with something like 2800 pairs and 900 individual wheels in my "wheel book" - now more ofa spreadsheet, TBH.
I keep a note of everything I build and have done for 35 years. Yes, I know, I should get out more :-D

I think of the open bearing hubs available, Campag Record and Shimano Dura Ace are the pinnacle.

Most of the other hubs that one sees now use "sealed" or "cartridge", sometimes slightly disparagingly called "industrial" bearings - which by definition tend to have higher rolling resistance (although it can be argued that the higher rolling resistance of a cartridge bearing is offset by ease of maintenance / replacement) ... there are ways around that by removing seals etc but that has an effect on the very longevity that the hub makers are trying to produce...
Hey from 5 years later!

So maybe you can help me out. I recently lucked into a set of rims, and I'm really excited to build a wheelset with them for my polo bike (2010's trek T1). Problem is, they're drilled for 40h, which I was initially happy with for the extra strength. I've been having a bear of a time finding any 120mm, 40h rear freewheel hubs from known manufacturers.

Short of ordering a custom drilling, it seems like my options are a set of no-name hubs with sealed bearings that I could replace with some higher quality set. Or, vintage Campagnolo track hubs off of ebay/new-old-stock sites that I could work with.

Can you offer any advice here? How does the quality of older Camp hubs compare to modern alternatives (Paul components is popular among polo players)? Will I struggle to find replacements for any components that might need it? I see sealed bearings recommended more often, is this just due to the ease of maintenance? Do loose or sealed bearings differ in durability at all? Would these hubs hold up to the occasional crash, and a lot of bike hopping any worse to the alternative? Do you know of any modern 40h track hubs that I might've just missed out on?

If it'd work without any major concerns, I think it'd be cool to do this with the old hubs. But if they're far more likely to fail, I'll just go with the cheaper ones, or maybe search for a different rim.

Would love to hear your thoughts!
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