You might want to pick another donor.

Cycling with a knee injury

You might not be good at other things and that might be apparent even when you are not crashing.

Given this and your other threads, the term "sketchy" comes to mind.

Groups are not a "free for all". Your ability to follow the rules of the group is an indication of how well you'll cooperate and fit in.

Given your posting history, you are not in a good place to complain about other things being "weird".

I'm all for defying convention but there's a line between being an iconoclast and being a dangerous menace to yourself, and more importantly, others.

fify

Huh, come to think of it I recently learned that bike racing peaked in popularity in the USA at the turn of the century, and we had the first and only black world champion back then (or something along those lines)

LOL I would not even know. Never joined them. You may be right.

The only group ride that I have experience in is absolutely a free for all.

That's not common. Those sorts of groups often have a reputation of being risky as well.

It shouldn't be too hard to imagine that not all groups want to be "free for alls".

You might want to be more cautious about drawing conclusions based on your limited experience.

The irony of "shirtless, helmet-less, hybrid-riding crash guy" calling Alto Velo group riders "Freds" was not missed. Well played!

Well if I've learned anything from BF, "fred" = "anyone faster than me, riding a better bike than me, and/or wearing gear that is appropriate for cycling"

Must be the "I'm not a Fred, YOU'RE a Fred" definition.

The classic definition: someone who wears clothes or rides equipment outside of the norm, and/or has poor handling skills. Chainring tattoo optional.

A subgroup are triathletes, with more strength than skill, known as "fast Freds".

Update: Bicycle lore suggests that "Fred" was named after Fred Birchmore, who rode around the world in 1934-35 on a bike named Bucephalus. While touring the world, Fred once passed a group of racers in Italy on a climb and crossed the finish line well ahead of the pack. I guess the racers didn't want to ride anywhere near that Fred.

Bucephalus is now part of the Smithsonian collection.

Here's a photo of Fred with Bucephalus:



Fred Birchmore with his bicycle "Bucephalus", a 1935 model made by the Otto Reinhardt Fahrrad-fabrik of Bielefeld, Germany

I'm sure there is some snobby elitism going on, because it involves people, and that's what people do. But maybe a lot of what outsiders interpret as snobby elitism is self preservation based on experience? I mean, here in the Bay Area, we have a LOT of cyclists of every level up to and including world class professionals. If a fast group ride doesn't welcome you, maybe it's because they know that an inexperienced group rider in a fast pack can easily cause disaster. When I rode with one of the local clubs, I started out hanging at the back of their weekend group rides. They ran a double line with the two front riders pulling off at the same time and drifting back to the end. I did a number of rides, hanging back behind that group and letting the rotating riders pull in, before I felt confident enough of my group riding skills to try getting into the rotation. And once I was in it, I realized I had to constantly attentive not just to the wheel ahead of me, but the shoulders 5 riders ahead, and the rider beside me. It takes some effort and skill to maintain the distance with the rider ahead as the peloton goes up and down hills, speeds up, slows down, etc. I was never near or over the limits of the wattage I could put out, but it was still exhausting because of the concentration. Over time, it became second nature, but that was over months of riding with them about 80 miles every weekend. And as I got better and smoother I could sense riders around me growing more relaxed with my presence.

Is that elitist, to want to ride only with people whose skills you trust? I mean, if you show up for a group ride with everything about you screaming "I'm not one of you!", you shouldn't be surprised if the other riders receive that message loud and clear, and why would they trust your skills? Your outfit and demeanor shouts that you have something to prove, not that you want to join in.

Plus that whole shirtless thing? Geez, what an affectation! It's JUNE, dude. You're courting melanoma to make some kind of "statement".

I'm sorry. I hope you can get over that.

Yeah my "definition" was the "bikeforums consistently being wrong about everything bikes" mis-definition.

Meanwhile, despite my best efforts, every day I consistently am more and more decidedly in the MAMIL category. Worse, I stopped caring.

Well, you can't really help the MAM part, and the IL just makes sense.

Fwiw soccer folks use the word kit also. Guess you shouldn’t play kids or adult rec league soccer either.

"Kit" has the advantage of being a single syllable that conveys the entire meaning. "Bibs and jersey" is 3 more syllables that doesn't convey any more meaning. If I say "A rider in (local club) kit", you know what I mean, even if you've never seen it. Objecting to the use of such a useful word is more elitist and snobby than using the word is, I think.

This is the correct answer. If the midwestern gravel dads I ride with call it a kit, I'm pretty sure it's not elitist or an affectation.

Since CalOSHA regs include the following I am not sure "working class" is the correct description:

(c) Employees (on foot) exposed to the hazard of vehicular traffic shall wear warning garments such as vests, jackets, or shirts manufactured in accordance with the requirements of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI)/International Safety Equipment Association (ISEA) 107-2004, High Visibility Safety Apparel and Headwear.

Everyone I know in the building trades in California has gotten used to those long sleeved lime green togs.

It’s not working class energy so much as slacker vibe. Or almost Mugatu’s Derelique line from Zoolander. Someone’s gotta bring that style!

Dude Alto Velo is full of grumpy Freds who don't even ride much, sure they have some fast squads and TBH I like their organization, but lets be realistic. nothing against them

Did any of those "grumpy Freds" have cable-tied copper tubing on their handlebars, to act as aerobars?

1) I mainly do just hang out in the back for precisely the reasons you state (and my wide bars are annoying and hazardous), and when I'm feeling feisty and attack or follow an attack I don't try to insert myself back in the paceline, even if it means I get dropped completely. I trying to not get labeled as a dangerous rider, hence why im staying away from the ride that I crashed on (Must have a bad rep with them now) and sticking to the noon ride because they like me for the most part.

2) Ive been riding shirtless for years to avoid getting sweaty on the commute, I don't own a car. The sun isn't that brutal here in california compared to other places. Not worried about sunburn or skin cancer.

3) I don't blame Egan for turning me away, just thought it was funny/cute that they wanted me to wear a jersey and Ironic that I crashed.

No but many have 15k bikes that they hardly ride and then get surprised when passed by people on slower bikes. Fred has like a bazillion meanings and one of them is someone who is new to cycling and buys a fancy bike and rapha kit because they think thats what they need to be fast. Also those bars are way safer than they look, I removed them though to be more social to the group rides. They could act as spears in a horrific crash