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Where is the Weight Difference coming from?

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Where is the Weight Difference coming from?

Old 11-12-23, 07:48 AM
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Where is the Weight Difference coming from?

Looking at, for the same price, 2 bikes.
Cannondale Synapse https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bik...e-carbon-2-rle
vs
Canyon SLX8 https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...aero/2740.html

While I know weight doesn't really matter, considering the actual percentage when adding our own body weights, I'm still curious why there's a listed difference of 2.6 lbs between these 2 bikes (19.7 lbs for the Cannondale, 17.1 lbs for the Canyon). I know there are a couple bits that are CF on the Canyon, that aren't on the CDale, but eg. an alloy handlebar isn't going to weigh that much more than a CF one, is it? Trying to determine, if I want to get a locally available bike, would there be somewhat easily done changes that would drop weight on the CDale? Or is it likely the weights are not correctly represented on one or both makers' websites?
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Old 11-12-23, 08:46 AM
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Could get 1kg of weight difference out of wheels, bars, seatpost, I reckon.
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Old 11-12-23, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by choddo
Could get 1kg of weight difference out of wheels, bars, seatpost, I reckon.
I think the alloy wheelset on the CDale is only about 200g heavier (1650 vs 1450 or thereabouts). The seatposts on both are CF, so how many grams could be there? The handlebars.. dunno. Wondering if the light system on the CD adds a lot?
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Old 11-12-23, 09:11 AM
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my understanding is Canyon uses the size small for weight. The CD was a 56. the wheels are some of it. i have a set of Fulcrum rapid red racing 5's which according to Fulcrum are same as 500 just the 500's are branded for OEM. the actual weight is 1770 grams and if the canyon site is legit with the dt wheel weight of 1477grams and maybe tires are another 50 grams or so...and maybe if you actually put both on a scale they might be closer than claimed. I love my Canyon but would be hesitant to get another because customer service is not great. My small CF8 did come in at what Canyon said it would weight wise.
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Old 11-12-23, 09:17 AM
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It will no doubt be small differences adding up across multiple components. I wouldn't use it as a factor in your buying decision.
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Old 11-12-23, 09:26 AM
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also if you need to make stem adjustments the canyon is not an easy swap. Make sure it fits if you go that route.
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Old 11-12-23, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It will no doubt be small differences adding up across multiple components. I wouldn't use it as a factor in your buying decision.
Typically that's the case. 1200 gram difference would seem to be a lot of small differences though, given the groupset is the same. As mentioned, maybe it could be the bike frame sizes that each brand uses for it's complete weight.
EDIT.. this review: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...eld-test-2022/
says CDale weight for their tested 51cm bike was 19.64lbs, which in my mind is a small.

Originally Posted by jadmt
also if you need to make stem adjustments the canyon is not an easy swap. Make sure it fits if you go that route.
Understood. Using a couple different geometry calculators, looks like SizeL would work great.

Originally Posted by jadmt
my understanding is Canyon uses the size small for weight. The CD was a 56. the wheels are some of it. i have a set of Fulcrum rapid red racing 5's which according to Fulcrum are same as 500 just the 500's are branded for OEM. the actual weight is 1770 grams and if the canyon site is legit with the dt wheel weight of 1477grams and maybe tires are another 50 grams or so...and maybe if you actually put both on a scale they might be closer than claimed. I love my Canyon but would be hesitant to get another because customer service is not great. My small CF8 did come in at what Canyon said it would weight wise.
Not sure if this is the same wheelset, but I used the 1650g number listed in this review: https://road.cc/content/review/26960...ravel-wheelset

Last edited by Sy Reene; 11-12-23 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 11-12-23, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
also if you need to make stem adjustments the canyon is not an easy swap. Make sure it fits if you go that route.
I notice this new version also has very little provision for stack height adjustment. The previous version allowed stack spacers above and below the stem. This one only allows spacers below and looks fixed at 15 mm.
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Old 11-12-23, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I think the alloy wheelset on the CDale is only about 200g heavier (1650 vs 1450 or thereabouts). The seatposts on both are CF, so how many grams could be there? The handlebars.. dunno. Wondering if the light system on the CD adds a lot?
doubt it. Didnít know the posts were both CF. Hmm.
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Old 11-12-23, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Typically that's the case. 1200 gram difference would seem to be a lot of small differences though, given the groupset is the same. As mentioned, maybe it could be the bike frame sizes that each brand uses for it's complete weight.
EDIT.. this review: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...eld-test-2022/
says CDale weight for their tested 51cm bike was 19.64lbs, which in my mind is a small.


Understood. Using a couple different geometry calculators, looks like SizeL would work great.


Not sure if this is the same wheelset, but I used the 1650g number listed in this review: https://road.cc/content/review/26960...ravel-wheelset
I think that is the number fulcrum claims but mine on an accurate scale are disappointingly heavier. I just got them a couple weeks ago maybe the older ones were lighter.
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Old 11-12-23, 10:41 AM
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Just because it's a carbon fiber bike doesn't mean it's made of the same carbon fiber materials. Different fabrics and resins have differing strengths. So one might be thicker than the other in places where a certain amount of strength is needed.

Add up that and all the differences in the other components and 2.6 pounds is very reasonable. Did you check to see if they are comparing the same size bike? That might even suggest more reason for the difference.
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Old 11-12-23, 11:17 AM
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The wheels account for 200g. The entire cockpit - bars and stem - on the Canyon weigh 282 grams, vs the bar (310g) and stem (~150g), so that's good for another 178g. I imagine the integrated lights/radar/battery is probably good for a substantial portion of the remainder, though of course if you add lights and a radar to the Canyon, that'll add weight to it.
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Old 11-12-23, 12:11 PM
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Yeah, guessing the electrics comprise a chunk of the weight difference.
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Old 11-12-23, 12:27 PM
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The posted weights don't really matter. I am sure that when you actually get the bike and put it on the scale it will weigh more than the posted weight.

I have lightened my old steel bikes in many ways by modifying the seat posts, cranks, and forks. The biggest changes on the ride/weight of these bikes was when modifying the wheel set. And as far as the wheel sets go,, other then steel v/s aluminum, the biggest change in ride was the tire and the tiers structure. Not the weight?

Of course this applies to my steel framed pre 90's bikes. I don't know how it applies to alloy and carbon millennial and post millennial era bikes.

Off Post: That brings up another thought. Just what is the life span of some of these newer production bicycles. Is the life expectancy of its components greater then the life expectancy of the frame and structure? I am thinking that the quality and life span of a new bikes wheel set is very, very, important. Or on a cut rate deal the first thing I would replace...

Edit - Rats... Sorry, I thought you were talking about bicycles, not e-bikes... Duh...
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Old 11-12-23, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval
The posted weights don't really matter. I am sure that when you actually get the bike and put it on the scale it will weigh more than the posted weight.

I have lightened my old steel bikes in many ways by modifying the seat posts, cranks, and forks. The biggest changes on the ride/weight of these bikes was when modifying the wheel set. And as far as the wheel sets go,, other then steel v/s aluminum, the biggest change in ride was the tire and the tiers structure. Not the weight?

Of course this applies to my steel framed pre 90's bikes. I don't know how it applies to alloy and carbon millennial and post millennial era bikes.

Off Post: That brings up another thought. Just what is the life span of some of these newer production bicycles. Is the life expectancy of its components greater then the life expectancy of the frame and structure? I am thinking that the quality and life span of a new bikes wheel set is very, very, important. Or on a cut rate deal the first thing I would replace...

Edit - Rats... Sorry, I thought you were talking about bicycles, not e-bikes... Duh...
Theyíre not e-bikes. The electronics / batteries referred to are in the shifting systems and radar/ lights. Though the Varia 515 isnít heavy, the 715 is a beefcake. Not sure which one is in play here.

Last edited by choddo; 11-12-23 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 11-12-23, 12:51 PM
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Just a WAG here coming from my experience with Cdale, my guess is the Synapse is a heavier frame. This is not bad in any way, just different. Add the light, radar, and the battery to power them, the weight difference may well be defined.
Frankly, my choice is always to go local as the local shop and employees spend their money in the micro economy in my neighborhood, and thus pay local taxes in my neighborhood, both of which benefit me and my family and my friends. The warehouse three states away does nothing to support my community.
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Old 11-12-23, 01:08 PM
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My guess is that 1/2 the weight difference is from the apples, and the other 50% is from the oranges. Claimed weights are all over the place.
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Old 11-12-23, 02:24 PM
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There is a whole lotta truth to the wheelset, tire, tube, etc...having an outsided influence on a bikes weight. A 1600 gram wheelset on a hypothetical 900 gram frame and 400 gram fork is not not going to have a noticable effect.

Now, I know it doesn't make for a hill of beans worth of difference in the real world other than bike feel. But, a set of Stans Grail CB7's weigh 299 grams actual and come in 28 & 24 hole options to ENVE's 24 hole only and cost 30% less than ENVE last I looked. 25-40mm tires covers a lot of possible uses. At a cost of 50 additional grams to accomodate a 38-60mm wide tires, We Are One Composites has 32, 28, and 24 hole Revive rims at $379

Berd Spokes are $8 each. Plus shipping each way. So what, ~$800 for the spokes & build service?

Extralite has some bangin' hubs that are stupid light and Ä600 for a set. But for a bunch of extra durability and less maintenance for the same cost, a White Industries set will set you back 200 additional grams.

All in all a disc tubeless wheelset weighing 950-1200 grams can be had for ~$2200 --Just throwin' it out there. You were going to swap out the OEM wheels anyway...Weren't you?

(Of course you were. ) So, get the bike that leaves the most budgetary room for an upgrade.
***Oops. They are only priced $1 apart.

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Old 11-12-23, 04:29 PM
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Weight of expensive bikes shows a continuous increasing trend during the last 3-4 years, supported by the induced wrong theory that weight does not matter (especially for nonprofessional riders, because the professionals continue to focus on low weight, together with aero). Maybe a large part of weight increase is driven by lower grade carbon fiber, which requires a bigger quantity of materials to preserve strength, but with lower cost of raw material and processing.

I had to buy a Canyon CF SL 7 in April, rated at 7.71 kg. It was true weight and I really feel it heavier compared with my old 6.6 kg bike. But I was amazed to learn that today (6 months after my purchase) the same CF SL 7 is rated at 8.46 kg. 750 g difference, of which less than 200 g comes from different wheels and saddle. The rest of more 550 grams increase in weight is a mystery. I think that expensive bikes around 9 kg or more will be seen more and more often in the offers of the big producers…
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Old 11-12-23, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Weight of expensive bikes shows a continuous increasing trend during the last 3-4 years, supported by the induced wrong theory that weight does not matter (especially for nonprofessional riders, because the professionals continue to focus on low weight, together with aero). Maybe a large part of weight increase is driven by lower grade carbon fiber, which requires a bigger quantity of materials to preserve strength, but with lower cost of raw material and processing.

I had to buy a Canyon CF SL 7 in April, rated at 7.71 kg. It was true weight and I really feel it heavier compared with my old 6.6 kg bike. But I was amazed to learn that today (6 months after my purchase) the same CF SL 7 is rated at 8.46 kg. 750 g difference, of which less than 200 g comes from different wheels and saddle. The rest of more 550 grams increase in weight is a mystery. I think that expensive bikes around 9 kg or more will be seen more and more often in the offers of the big producers…
It might be a bounce in the current production of bikes where they went too low for the current technology and materials being used and the real world "testing" by the consumers had enough failures (warranty repairs or replacement) to cause them to beef up the frames more on later bikes. As new manufacturing methods and materials become better and more cost effective we might see that trend change and continue to bring frame and over all bike weight lower again.
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Old 11-12-23, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Weight of expensive bikes shows a continuous increasing trend during the last 3-4 years, supported by the induced wrong theory that weight does not matter (especially for nonprofessional riders, because the professionals continue to focus on low weight, together with aero). Maybe a large part of weight increase is driven by lower grade carbon fiber, which requires a bigger quantity of materials to preserve strength, but with lower cost of raw material and processing.
Remind us all again why 1 kg of weight matters for non-pro riders? Check out the weights of this yearís TdF bikes:-

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...-bike-weights/

Spoiler - they average 7.45 kg and the heaviest was 7.95 kg.
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Old 11-12-23, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
It might be a bounce in the current production of bikes where they went too low for the current technology and materials being used and the real world "testing" by the consumers had enough failures (warranty repairs or replacement) to cause them to beef up the frames more on later bikes. As new manufacturing methods and materials become better and more cost effective we might see that trend change and continue to bring frame and over all bike weight lower again.
Thatís an extremely unlikely explanation ie 0.5 kg extra weight on the same frame!
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Old 11-12-23, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Thatís an extremely unlikely explanation ie 0.5 kg extra weight on the same frame!
It wasn't intended to explain that.
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Old 11-12-23, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Remind us all again why 1 kg of weight matters for non-pro riders? Check out the weights of this year’s TdF bikes:-

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...-bike-weights/

Spoiler - they average 7.45 kg and the heaviest was 7.95 kg.
There are also different opinions around:
https://www.cyclistshub.com/how-much...ce-bike-weigh/

I'll not discuss the subtle and expensive topic of aero included in pro bikes, which are not available for casual bikes below 6000 EUR or more. The question here is about a 9 kg bike (not 7 kg). Long time ago, before 1990, I rode an inexpensive "third class" steel bike as a junior, around 10.5 kg. In 2015 I bought a 6.6 kg bike at a reasonable price of 2200 EUR (almost 2.5 kg less and below half of the price of the one of 5500 USD in the question here). Now I can see a lot of high brand expensive CF bikes (not special aero), around 9 kg at more than 5000 EUR. With such evolution, the expensive bikes will be so heavy that I'll start wonder whether CF over steel is really an advantage for casual riders.
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Old 11-12-23, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
There are also different opinions around:
https://www.cyclistshub.com/how-much...ce-bike-weigh/

.
In the article I linked they weighed the actual bikes used by a selection of 12 or so riders. In your link they appear to have just looked up manufacturer weights.

If you do a lot of competitive hill climbing then weight matters to a certain degree. 9 kg vs 7 kg would cost me maybe 90 seconds up Alpe díHuez. But on a flatter route it would make hardly any difference at all. Thatís why the pros donít really care about making the UCI min weight for anything other than big mountain days and even then many of them donít bother changing bikes if they are not climbers. Itís also why most modem frames and wheels are more focused on aero than weight.

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