OC Roadie

3. When I'm riding and want solitude and time to myself, I don't want to be obligated to call out all of the trash, obsticals and road hazards to the person behind me. Sometimes I want to ride fast by myself, and it's annoying to have a leach on my wheel.

On the other hand, sometimes it doesn't bother me one bit. I always say "Hi" and ask if someone minds me grabbing their wheel before I draft with someone, then I take my turn.

coclimber

How about this scenario?

Riding solo on a very popular route north out of Boulder on a weekend (ie: many bikers out this day), a guy in a full team kit on a tri bike passed me - slowly - but then more or less assumed the pace I was at... around 19-20 mph. I didn't really do anything; he assumed the "pulling" position, and I drafted for about 1 or 2 miles. Nothing was said, it just happened. Our routes diverged then, so I turned off, gave a quick "Thanks for the pull", and we exchanged waves. No big deal...

I think all the fuss about freeloading, danger, etc here is a tad overblown. I understand caution, that's fine. But all this hard core-ness, ego, etc is really foreign to my way of thinking. Go out, enjoy the road and the other bikers who are also out there to enjoy a ride. Freak out when something bad happens, not when people are just out being themselves, riding, etc. Seems unhealthy to carry around so much stress and attitude.

FWIW... my 2 cents

Yo-

You're not obligated to cater to that stranger riding behind you. You don't have to call out all the potholes, trash, etc. But don't be rude to him. Don't blow snot bullets or spit water at him.

noisebeam

This gets to the root of my experience and the issue of passing. I don't like to be delayed or slowed by a rider in front of me, but I mostly ride in rush hour traffic and the opportunity to pass safety can be rare and when it does occur quite brief. I know when I am at a much faster or only slightly faster pace, depending on how quick I get to the cyclist in front of me. So as I approach I start looking at traffic behind for a gap to pass, but if there is not one I hang back 4-8ft until I can find one. Sometimes the cyclist I came up on notices me and picks up the pace, but this is usually temporary - but the point is it can sometimes be over a mile until I can safely pass - that is use full lane to get around them.

Finally the most annoying is when I do finally pass and get held at the next red light and the cyclist that I just past, who comes up quite a bit later behind me at the light, decides to squeeze up on my right and sit in front of me at the red light, me then having to repeat the passing process. You think they'd realize you passed because you are going faster.

Al

'nother

Aw, come on, that's worth way more than 2 cents. Most sensible advice so far.

noisebeam

There is also the reality that if someone gains on you over some distance (unless you were intentionally slacking off) that they are riding faster. Let 'em pass (by not swerving left/right or riding further into street, or pulling a bit more right when there is a gap in traffic) and everyone will be happy.

Al

noisebeam

Why are you obligated to do so? Also if they are 3+ft behind they can see (if they are not focused on your rear wheel which they shouldn't be at 3ft) all the important obsticals. Frankly unless in a tight paceline where signalling is essential, I think club riders go way overboard in calling out obsticals. Crap that is way off to the side, etc.

Al

djbowen1

i was in CP last week, with 2 guys, a girl and myself, we set out for 4 laps, we each were doing 30 second pulls, averaging about 25-28 mph. after one of my pulls was over i was coasting back to 4th in line and some dude is there and gets pissed that i almost hit him , so im like its all good but get ready for your pull and hes like im just here for the draft, i was like FU dude, so we just took off and left him in the dust. i dont care who drafts but atleast take a turn or try.

puddin' legs

Last word from me on the subject... It's obvious that alot of the poster here are pretty paranoid a-social types. You're riding a bike with the mentality and notion of personal space identical to that of driving a car. Sitting on is not like tailgating in your car. This isn't surprizing in a culture that celebrates self preservation/enlightenment/entertainment over all else. Why is it pro riders don't care if you sit on and many of you do? How many of you have been hit by a cyclist who was on your wheel? And on the small chance that your were, how many of you actually fell or broke equipment? I'm not talking about a club paceline, but just a couple or three folks out on the road. I'd guess its more likely that we've been hit by lightning or Osama Bin Lauden was the bearded guy on the bike behind. This is not a riding phenomena and issue of personal safety. It's a social issue (including personal safety issues for solo women riders). This is not the way the sport was until recently. Certainly not in the 70's, or 80's, or even now in Japan. Australians are a friendly bunch as well. I have to agree... It seems the unfriendliest are indeed the wanabees and new "core" riders. Eventservices, I'm disappointed in your attitude. I'd always found Michigan riders to be some of the nicest around and usually very glad to have a chat or help with the headwinds riding west. The odd thing is that the stronger the rider and harder the ride, the friendlier people were.

Gammy Leg, is yelling at a rider behind you rather than asking them not to follow the sign of healthy behavior?

danch

There are a lot of things that are legal that aren't polite. Having strangers close makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Personally, I don't care if somebody is drafting me (at 3 feet), but if they come up behing me and hang there, I'd prefer that they announce themselves. If I know they're there, I'll change my riding a bit, and I won't spit or blow a snot-rocket on them. If I pass another rider that's not going much slower than me, I often assume that they're going to hitch a ride and I'll start giving hand signals if I'm slowing down for some reason.

On the other hand, I don't draft people I don't know. There've been times when someone has passed me then I've caught up, but know they'll get a gap on me again. I hang back 10 or 15 feet because I don't know what they're comfortable with. Frankly, there are times (when it's a woman) that I worry that that might be a little creepy still, but if we're going in the same direction, there's not a lot else for me to do.

meme

I don't know why people have issues with others staying in their draft (assuming they don't take you down). It's not like there's any negative effect on the person doing the "pulling." Technically the person should be thanking the person behind; s/he is technically helping to make the air of the person in the front more laminar-->less turbulence and less drag then say if s/he was biking solo. Of course it's nice if somebody else can take turn doing the "pulling" because you can both do a faster pace w/o tiring the front person out...

twahl

I don't mind a draft as long as there's a little conversation involved, but I think it's incredibly rude to suck a wheel of someone you don't know without a word. Take your turn pulling, and everyone can enjoy a longer, faster ride, and some companionship.

'nother

The point is, merely feeling "uncomfortable" is no justification for launching an assault (with mace, snot rockets, whatever). If someone injures me solely because they felt I was too close to them (barring actual physical contact), they are the ones that are going to have a legal problem, not me.


Ditto, I never draft/follow unannounced (usually just pass anyway) -- but I also don't really care if others draft/follow me unannounced. They're taking on the majority of the risk in that scenario, I'm just out for my ride As coclimber said, it's not something to get so worked up about, always checking your back or whatever. It ain't like the jungles of 'Nam or the streets of East L.A. or something.l

Keith99

OK I'll start by giving how and when I ride and how I feel about it in that context:

I generally ride social club rides (SFVBC). Everyone has their own route slip, there are no formal groups. But everyone starts out at the same time. Informal groups start out. I very often end up stuck behind riders slower than I am for a while, usually with a few others who may also feel stuck. I eventually pass. After passing I want to catch the group ahead. But I often sit up a bit to let others catch my wheel. I have no problem towing others across to the group ahead. There have been times when my biggest frustration was a newer rider would not get close enough to benefit enough to make crossing easier (talking 3-5 feet not inches).

You can see I'm not exactly anti drafting. But that is in a 17-20 mph speed and somewhere where I have decent sitelines and someone I've at least met (sort of).

Everything changes if the speed picks up, the distance closes up or the siteline on the road changes. Even with 3 feet at 25 MPH if the lead rider even lets up those behind can be right up their behind in the blink of an eye.

Still I generally don't mind someone drafting me. But from time to time I have someone on my wheel that I just don't feel right about. I'll usually just sit up and let them pass. If that doesn't work I can sprint for a while. The people who can hold my wheel when I try really hard on the flat and who will not get bored when I drop to really slow are few and far between. (Of course this may not work for you if you are female and at all attractive).

skinnyone

I think this thread has far outlived its useful life... there have been quite a few sensible posts but most of them assume different a premise...

'nother

You are right. Most of un-sensible posts, including the first reply, assumed the OP was talking about close, fast, paceline-like drafting, when really he was talking about following (or "stalking" if you prefer) at 3-5 feet at a non-mindblowing speed. Different premise entirely.

skinnyone

Agreed...Likewise the reply to the second post which said that the wheels could touch when riders are 3 feet away...

pakole

I usually draft on my way to pass. Since I usually have to wait for a space in the cars to pass, I will draft until I can pass. Yet I have not had the opportunity to draft for an extended period of time, so I never consider the manners related to it. I would say that I would not mind someone drafting off of me. I actually feel its a compliment. It is good to have these things in mind when it happens in real life. Thanks for all of your input.

EventServices

3 to 5 feet can be erased in mere moments. And then you're picking yourself up off the ground.

Seen it too many times.

Old Gammy Leg

I don't mean I yell, but I raise my voice since as I said, there is always traffic zooming by. How is that not healthy?

I just cannot understand how some people on this thread equate a concern for safety with unfriendliness or arrogance. Why does it mean I'm unfriendly if I don't want a total stranger putting me (and themselves) in a dangerous situation?

Like I said in another post -

Sorry, but the potential for a bad accident is there. More chance of being struck by lightning!? Come on! Like EventServices said, all kinds of stuff can happen, and if you don't know each other's riding style and have had no discussion on how to ride safely together, then that is dangerous. Especially if they sneak up and you don't even know they are there!

If someone pulls up alongside me, says 'hi, wanna work together', that is a completely different story...

I cannot understand how wanting to ride safely equates with unfriendliness.

'nother

Uhh, care to check that series of posts again? I never suggested anything of the sort. I said:"At 3-5 feet behind there's considerably less drafting happening than at 3-6 inches which would be more typical of actual drafting. Also a lot less danger of "we all fall down". Anyway, usually if contact occurs, the rear rider is the one going down. The danger to the front rider, especially at 3-5 feet, is over-hyped."


Whereas:
Sums it up pretty well.

jrennie

That is a great solution, if you find it dangerous/rude for someone to tail or draft you then be polite and just tell them. There is no need to spit water or ride side to side, just let them know. Water spitting and foul language should be reserved for rude motorists

skinnyone

Ok.. Point conceded... I guess I dragged the thread on a tangent... Apologies to OP...

Old Gammy Leg

Yes, but it's not just wheel touching is it? What if I brake suddenly? Or sit up after an interval? Or reach down to take a drink, slowing down in the process? Then I have a guy potentially crashing in to me, or swerving into traffic to avoid me. 3-5 feet is swallowed up in no time at all in that situation.

Guest

It used to bother me, but not anymore. Now it just lets me know that someone needs my strength to get through their ride.

I jump onto people's wheels too, especially if they feel like they have something to prove and won't let me pass. Freaks 'em out every time.

Koffee