Is being drafted annoying?
#26
Powered by Borscht
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 8,342
Bikes: Russian Vodka
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by puddin' legs
ovoleg, if it were me you were behind, I'd probably pull out and slow up a bit, and say hello. Having done that, you'd probably ask if I minded if you hung on the back, and I'd say no problem. Hang on as long as you can.
#27
Behind EVERYone!!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Burlington ON, Canada
Posts: 6,020
Bikes: 2010 Specialized Tricross Comp 105 Double
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 96 Times
in
29 Posts
Jeez, I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If someone is drafting off of you, and riding in a responsible manner, what difference does it make to you. If you were out solo on a training ride what effect does it have on you to have someone on your wheel? It doesn't affect your effort or your aerodynamics. I would love to have someone draft off of me. It may even give me a chance to meet another cyclist. You guys are NOT leading a paceline up the Tourmalet or anything even like that. You don't own the section of road you're on. I love this sport but some of the "etiquette" just rubs me the wrong way. Do you do the same thing when someone is walking behind you? Some of you really need to get over yourselves.
I wouldn't mind drafting off of someone but I can never catch them in the first place.
I wouldn't mind drafting off of someone but I can never catch them in the first place.
__________________
“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ”
― Bruce Lee
“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ”
― Bruce Lee
#28
Whateverthehell
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: U.S.S.A.
Posts: 7,432
Bikes: '06 Blue Competition RC5AL w/ritchey pro fork, spinergy stealth PBO, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
personally, i never use the draft of people i don't know. to me, it's all about respecting someone else's personal space. not everyone likes being stalked. i'd rather hang back or just pass them if i can. i don't mind if people draft me, but imagine if you were out running by yourself and some random person suddenly starts running really close behind you. that's not a comfortable feeling, is it?
alot of people pose the "what if they don't know what they're doing" question. i think these are mainly just the elitist f-nuts we all love to hate. i've been riding for two decades, and i don't pretend to know any more than the next guy about cycling.
i've been to several competitive driving academies, but that doesn't mean i might not cause an accident on the road someday.
alot of people pose the "what if they don't know what they're doing" question. i think these are mainly just the elitist f-nuts we all love to hate. i've been riding for two decades, and i don't pretend to know any more than the next guy about cycling.
i've been to several competitive driving academies, but that doesn't mean i might not cause an accident on the road someday.
__________________
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
#29
Cyclist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This topic always comes up.
I *never* let strangers draft me, and I never draft people I don't know. If someone tries it I shout "don't ride up my a$$", and if they carry on I pull over and let them past.
It has nothing to do with free pulls or anything like that. It is purely a safety issue. There is almost always traffic around, I ride pretty fast, and I do not want some complete stranger sat 6" off my wheel. Maybe they're very proficient and maybe they're not - in that situation I do not particularly care to find out. It only takes one wheel touch to send us both flying, possibly under the wheels of a truck or at least into the deck at over 20mph.
Similarly, if coming up behind someone, I either hang 10 feet back, or overtake smoothly - one or the other.
This also has nothing to do with being an unfriendly, arrogant roadie. I am a very friendly cyclist, but sneaking up annanounced on someones wheel and causing a safety hazard is not a great way to start out.
I *never* let strangers draft me, and I never draft people I don't know. If someone tries it I shout "don't ride up my a$$", and if they carry on I pull over and let them past.
It has nothing to do with free pulls or anything like that. It is purely a safety issue. There is almost always traffic around, I ride pretty fast, and I do not want some complete stranger sat 6" off my wheel. Maybe they're very proficient and maybe they're not - in that situation I do not particularly care to find out. It only takes one wheel touch to send us both flying, possibly under the wheels of a truck or at least into the deck at over 20mph.
Similarly, if coming up behind someone, I either hang 10 feet back, or overtake smoothly - one or the other.
This also has nothing to do with being an unfriendly, arrogant roadie. I am a very friendly cyclist, but sneaking up annanounced on someones wheel and causing a safety hazard is not a great way to start out.
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dog hair
personally, i never use the draft of people i don't know. to me, it's all about respecting someone else's personal space. not everyone likes being stalked. i'd rather hang back or just pass them if i can. i don't mind if people draft me, but imagine if you were out running by yourself and some random person suddenly starts running really close behind you. that's not a comfortable feeling, is it?
I would have a problem, though, if someone just sucked on my wheel and never said a single word, just so they can use me for their own purposes -- this happened to me just a few weeks ago and I thought the guy doing that had no sense of courtesy.
Just my 2 pennies... I'm sure there are plenty of folks who don't think this way.
-Kevin
#31
Behind EVERYone!!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Burlington ON, Canada
Posts: 6,020
Bikes: 2010 Specialized Tricross Comp 105 Double
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 96 Times
in
29 Posts
The out and out arrogance is astounding.
__________________
“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ”
― Bruce Lee
“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ”
― Bruce Lee
#33
Announcer
The ettiquette that rubs you the wrong way is usually rooted in personal safety. Though you think you're perfectly harmless by hopping on my wheel unannounced, you're a menace to BOTH our safety.
I don't know you're back there.
I might slow down because sometimes I do that.
You're not paying attention.
Or maybe I swerve to avoid a pothole.
You take out my rear derailleur. Or get your skewer into my spokes.
One of us ends up in hospital just because you wanted to get your nose out of the wind.
I'm not here to protect you from a headwind.
My rear wheel is $500. My ribs are much more than that.
Until I know you, I'll be arrogant.
Stop taking it personally. It's a safety issue.
I don't know you're back there.
I might slow down because sometimes I do that.
You're not paying attention.
Or maybe I swerve to avoid a pothole.
You take out my rear derailleur. Or get your skewer into my spokes.
One of us ends up in hospital just because you wanted to get your nose out of the wind.
I'm not here to protect you from a headwind.
My rear wheel is $500. My ribs are much more than that.
Until I know you, I'll be arrogant.
Stop taking it personally. It's a safety issue.
#35
Mmmmm Donuts!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Crownsville, MD
Posts: 2,069
Bikes: 1998 IF Crown Jewel
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I do and dont mind it all at the same time. I dont mind it because its no big deal to me. I just ask that they at least say hello. For some reason that just peeves me off. Even when im being passed out on the road. At least say Hi. On the other hand, it sometimes makes me forget my training scheme for the day and i ride harder than i should have been, especially if the person takes a pull.
I actully find this more annoying than not. It makes me feel like im being stalked. I'd prefer people to draft properly. 5-6 feet away is not drafting, its following. I'd prefer a drafter to get on my wheel and share the work.
I wont draft behind someone 2-6 inches but I will stay 5-6 feet away.
__________________
John
'09 Cannondale CAAD9 - Team Latitude/ABRT Special.
'04 Lemond Victorie Ti
'98 IF Crown Jewel (dead)
'92 Trek2100 (TT)
'50 something Gino Bartali (fixer)
'02 Ducati ST4s (Moto-Ref mount)
My Blog
John
'09 Cannondale CAAD9 - Team Latitude/ABRT Special.
'04 Lemond Victorie Ti
'98 IF Crown Jewel (dead)
'92 Trek2100 (TT)
'50 something Gino Bartali (fixer)
'02 Ducati ST4s (Moto-Ref mount)
My Blog
#37
semifreddo amartuerer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 4,599
Bikes: several
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by ovoleg
Alright I got a question for you guys because I always end up thinking this...
I wont draft behind someone 2-6 inches but I will stay 5-6 feet away. The reason I dont pass him is because Im trying pretty hard to maintain that speed and passing him is going to take alot of effort. The guys view is that your drafting behind him and sucking off him. So what do you do? I dont feel like slowing down and starting again because you never know, I might catch up to him
I never had anyone draft behind me, they either pass me or they are too slow so they never catch up
I wont draft behind someone 2-6 inches but I will stay 5-6 feet away. The reason I dont pass him is because Im trying pretty hard to maintain that speed and passing him is going to take alot of effort. The guys view is that your drafting behind him and sucking off him. So what do you do? I dont feel like slowing down and starting again because you never know, I might catch up to him
I never had anyone draft behind me, they either pass me or they are too slow so they never catch up
#38
semifreddo amartuerer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 4,599
Bikes: several
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by The original poster
So I catch him and draft this guy 3-5 feet behind him . . . I'm far enough behind him that if I crash, I won't bring him down.
. . .
So what's the big deal of not wanting people drafting you?
. . .
So what's the big deal of not wanting people drafting you?
Originally Posted by EventServices
The ettiquette that rubs you the wrong way is usually rooted in personal safety. Though you think you're perfectly harmless by hopping on my wheel unannounced, you're a menace to BOTH our safety.
I don't know you're back there.
I might slow down because sometimes I do that.
You're not paying attention.
Or maybe I swerve to avoid a pothole.
You take out my rear derailleur. Or get your skewer into my spokes.
One of us ends up in hospital just because you wanted to get your nose out of the wind.
I'm not here to protect you from a headwind.
My rear wheel is $500. My ribs are much more than that.
Until I know you, I'll be arrogant.
Stop taking it personally. It's a safety issue.
I don't know you're back there.
I might slow down because sometimes I do that.
You're not paying attention.
Or maybe I swerve to avoid a pothole.
You take out my rear derailleur. Or get your skewer into my spokes.
One of us ends up in hospital just because you wanted to get your nose out of the wind.
I'm not here to protect you from a headwind.
My rear wheel is $500. My ribs are much more than that.
Until I know you, I'll be arrogant.
Stop taking it personally. It's a safety issue.
At 3-5 inches, okay (maybe), that point has been made repeatedly in the hundreds of other threads on this topic. But at 3-5 feet, the OP is really talking about following not so much drafting. And I *really* don't see what people's beef is with that.
#39
¡Pura Vida!
Originally Posted by dog hair
to me, it's all about respecting someone else's personal space. not everyone likes being stalked.
Originally Posted by 'nother
the OP is really talking about following not so much drafting.
Everyone has different comfort zones and they let you know what they are in different ways. What the OP did could have easily escalated into confrontation. No one wins, then.
__________________
--José
'92 Bianchi Eros
'05 Bianchi Virata
'08 Electra Straight 8 Cruiser
--José
'92 Bianchi Eros
'05 Bianchi Virata
'08 Electra Straight 8 Cruiser
#40
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I love drafting especially with a group. But I wouldn't just pull up behind someone unannounced, what if he hit the binders for whatever reason not knowing someone was on his back wheel. I have caught up with a group before and asked if I could join them, taking my turn in the front as well.
#41
Cyclist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
To all those who don't mind being drafted close by complete strangers; or who actually consider it arrogant to object
- Do you really, honestly not think it's extremely dangerous to have a total unknown stranger inches off your wheel at over 20 mph with traffic around? Seriously?
- Do you really, honestly not think it's extremely dangerous to have a total unknown stranger inches off your wheel at over 20 mph with traffic around? Seriously?
#42
I ride to stay fit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 46
Bikes: 2001 Trek 5200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I once had this guy in front of me maybe half mile or so, slowly I caught him and then passed him up. Soon after I passed him, I notice he latched onto my back wheel. We traded back and forth for about ten miles and though we made casual eye contact once we finally parted ways, we ever said a single thing to each other.
Anyway I thought that was kind of cool, but normally if I ride solo I'm doing it to build endurance and for me drafting defeats that purpose.
Anyway I thought that was kind of cool, but normally if I ride solo I'm doing it to build endurance and for me drafting defeats that purpose.
#43
semifreddo amartuerer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 4,599
Bikes: several
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by OPC
Thank you. That's it exactly. It is common courtesy to ask before you get that close to another human being, on a bike or not.
I disagree. What the original poster was doing is stalking, not following. Un-announced, un-invited pursuit when the other rider moves to create some distance is intentional disrespect of the other rider's personal space.
#44
semifreddo amartuerer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 4,599
Bikes: several
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by Old Gammy Leg
To all those who don't mind being drafted close by complete strangers; or who actually consider it arrogant to object
- Do you really, honestly not think it's extremely dangerous to have a total unknown stranger inches off your wheel at over 20 mph with traffic around? Seriously?
- Do you really, honestly not think it's extremely dangerous to have a total unknown stranger inches off your wheel at over 20 mph with traffic around? Seriously?
#45
Hold me, ShaqDaddy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So I take it people don't like being drafted because of 2 reasons.
1. Safety
2. Don't like people freeloading off of them
1. It doesn't take a professional cyclist to be able to draft behind someone 3-5 feet and not hit the other rider's wheel. 7 year olds follow their parents without any problems. The person in the most danger is the rider doing the drafting. In fact doing the left and right swerving to lose the drafter is even more dangerous. Let me go one step ahead of this. I would say drafting this guy 3-5 feet behind him is even more safe than passing this guy on the road. There's even more danger in passing a fellow cyclist on the road. So if you get peeved by drafters becaue of safety, than you should be even more peeved by cyclists that pass you.
2. If I draft a better rider that makes my avg. speed higher and he wants me to give, than I'll be happy to give. But he was doing 24mph by himself. If I pull, I'll drop to 20mph. I'm not going to tell some stranger, "Hey, let me take a pull" and he drops behind me and we drop to 20mph. That's just stupid.
Now if I'm stronger than the rider in front and take his draft for a while, I'll be happy to give him my draft when I pull out ahead if he can keep up. But I don't know him, so I won't cater my riding to him. If he can't keep up, I won't slow down to "repay" him. Likewise, if I can't keep up with some one that was drafting me, I won't expect him to slow down so I can get "repayment."
1. Safety
2. Don't like people freeloading off of them
1. It doesn't take a professional cyclist to be able to draft behind someone 3-5 feet and not hit the other rider's wheel. 7 year olds follow their parents without any problems. The person in the most danger is the rider doing the drafting. In fact doing the left and right swerving to lose the drafter is even more dangerous. Let me go one step ahead of this. I would say drafting this guy 3-5 feet behind him is even more safe than passing this guy on the road. There's even more danger in passing a fellow cyclist on the road. So if you get peeved by drafters becaue of safety, than you should be even more peeved by cyclists that pass you.
2. If I draft a better rider that makes my avg. speed higher and he wants me to give, than I'll be happy to give. But he was doing 24mph by himself. If I pull, I'll drop to 20mph. I'm not going to tell some stranger, "Hey, let me take a pull" and he drops behind me and we drop to 20mph. That's just stupid.
Now if I'm stronger than the rider in front and take his draft for a while, I'll be happy to give him my draft when I pull out ahead if he can keep up. But I don't know him, so I won't cater my riding to him. If he can't keep up, I won't slow down to "repay" him. Likewise, if I can't keep up with some one that was drafting me, I won't expect him to slow down so I can get "repayment."
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Uxbridge, Ontario
Posts: 75
Bikes: LeMond Reno, Specialized Hardrock
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I find a well aimed snot rocket tends to get them to back off my wheel!
#47
I'm fine.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 2,263
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sport, IRO Rob Roy
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't think the issue is being a stranger... at least not for me. I haven't met most riders out there and a lot of people have great bike handling skills. And I like working with people I don't know. It's fun.
But if you're going to draft off my wheel, at least say 'hi'. I'll pull all day if you're not up to it. I'll go back to the team car for snacks if you want. But just don't sneak up on me... that's kinda creepy.
But if you're going to draft off my wheel, at least say 'hi'. I'll pull all day if you're not up to it. I'll go back to the team car for snacks if you want. But just don't sneak up on me... that's kinda creepy.
#48
¡Pura Vida!
Originally Posted by 'nother
Eh. Stalking, following, whatever. On a privately-owned street I might concur with the stalking analysis, but on public roads . . . no different than me following you down the street if we were walking and happened to be going to the same place at about the same pace. At least we agree that at that distance there's no possibility of the follower/stalker's skewer going into the front rider's $500 wheel or priceless ribs, right?
__________________
--José
'92 Bianchi Eros
'05 Bianchi Virata
'08 Electra Straight 8 Cruiser
--José
'92 Bianchi Eros
'05 Bianchi Virata
'08 Electra Straight 8 Cruiser
#49
semifreddo amartuerer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 4,599
Bikes: several
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by uxrider
I find a well aimed snot rocket tends to get them to back off my wheel!
#50
semifreddo amartuerer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 4,599
Bikes: several
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by OPC
Yes, we can agree that crashing isn't the issue at 3+ feet.
However, there is no divine right to chase someone on the road, public or not. If you were out for a walk and came across another walker, would you drop in 3 or 4 feet behind them and follow them? If they broke into a jog with the obvious intention of creating some distance, do you shadow them? What do you tell the police when they ask you why you were chasing them? Or why you got maced?