ravenmore

The motivation of this kind of thread is pretty obvious. Its the youg lbs guys, or the guys focusing on racing w/o real jobs lusting after high end bikes, resenting the fatcat job professionals who have dedicated their lives to their careers (thereby sacrificing their fitness) coming in and rewarding themselves for their endeavors with said high end bike.

cbip

Now thats a man with some issues to deal with . Just kidding. What you do with your money is up to you. If you didnt earn it, then dont tell me how to spend it. I am fairly new to cycling, 20 months since I started, and in that time frame I have meet many great guys and girls who love to ride for the excersise, companionship, and the love of trhe outdoors. I have also noticed a prevelent attitude associated with this sport. There are more EGO"S in cycling than anything else I have done. On every ride I go on that includes some "used to race pro" or " I ride crit's" guy, they always try and show how much faster and better they are than everyone else. Its sad that they think anyone cares. Having faster riders in your group is always benifical in that they push you to be stronger and faster, but most of them seem to be so full of themselves, if you pass them they instantly speed up to show you they can beat you. Or on a hill climb they have to be the first to the top.
There are so many wana be's in cycling it is a joke.
I would love for a REAL racer to show up at these rides sometime and just smoke these guys butts.
And all you "Racers" out there. If I dont see ya on TV riding a bike that was given to you, wearing a shirt of a REAL team with a support car behind you and the peloton on your heels, then you aint a racer.
Your just a very fast recreational rider.

ravenmore

Actually, there's lots of racers here. 2Roadies and myself are on a team. I know a lot of other guys here who race also.

Cypress

*raises hand*

LIVE2BIKE80

maybe so but they better get a cardio check up first

2Rodies

Trust me sport there are some keen differences between fast rec riders and guys who train hard and race. After Ft Davis (April 22) show up to our shop ride or the Tuesday Nighter and see if you can hang with Shawn Dean or Sol Frost. If these guys are just a fast rec riders then I can't wait to get there.

BTW using your logic Michael Jordon was nothing more than a great street ****** until he signed a pro contract. There are a lot of very fast guys who race who will never be pro riders, these guys are racers through and through.

auroch

When ever the whole "riders with guts buying lightweight expensive bikes" topic comes up I always wonder one thing:

how much would it cost to spend that same money on liposuction?

Seriously, (not trying to be snarky) but similar to calculating the cost per gram of slimming down a bike what would be the cost per gram for trimming the fat off a person?

Anyone is the medical field want to chime in?

jeff

ravenmore

Oh yeah - just noticed cbip is a local guy. Yeah, he needs to come on out and explain to the team we're all rec riders.

2Rodies

I just hope he does it before the USCF starts drug testing us!

cbip

First of all, just because you call yourself a racer, doesnt mean you are one. Second being a Pro isnt the point, I was a Pro Golfer, worked and taught at a private club, but I damn sure couldnt beat anyone on the PGA tour. The point I was making is that most of the people that are into cycling, that I have meet anyway, are under the impression that if they dress like Lance, act like Lance and talk like Lance they can be like Lance. WRONG!
There is a huge difference between being a great local or regional rider and that of a "tour" quality rider.
Untill you get into the Peleton and rub shoulders with Basso, Boonen, Hincapie etc you are still just a great local recreational rider. When you get PAID to ride then you are a Professional Racer, until then you are at best a Racer of other recreational riders.
" It's amazing how many people overgrade their paper" Bip

GuitarWizard

Ummmm.....yeahhhhhhhh.....let me try to understand this one....

So, like.....when a group of men/women with "regular jobs" on a Sunday morning line up at the starting line and ride against each other....in a sanctioned race....you're saying they're not really actual racers because they're not elite level pros?

This is going to become a fun thread I can see.....

Mo'Phat

Anyone who races anyone is a Racer.

Me?...I race sunsets and rain...I race motorcycles at intersections...I race to beat the red...

That's why most sane people qualify the term 'Racer' with Amateur, Pro, Elite, Rec, Soul, etc.

LIVE2BIKE80

Yeah this is spiraling out of control. Just glad the heat is off me!

2Rodies

OK which is it, being in peleton with the Euro pros or getting paid or sponsored that makes you a pro?

I raced Formula cars in the SCCA for almost 25 years, I entered several pro-events and had sponsors give me money to help defer my costs. Was I pro or just like the guy who's driving to the mall but I'm just dressed like Michael Schumacher?

As guy who raced bikes in past and races now, I can say with all honesty that the level of commitment it takes to be competitive is much greater than just being a fast rec rider. I have a sponsor but I'm no pro, guys like Jason Segar and Sol Frost (ex euro-pro), are uber fast local/regional racers. Not rec riders, racers.

I respect all cyclists from the overweight guy on the uber expensive bike in his pro team kit to the guys like Vinokurtov, Ravenmore myself and a bunch of others on this forum who race on a amature level. We are all doing something we love, some of us like the competition and some of us just enjoy the ride. Just because I can't race at the level that Basso can doesn't make the race I'm in any less hard or the racers I'm racing against any easier to beat.

Ginetta

A lot of people are drinking the hater-ade in here. I will chime in and say I could really give a flying **** about who rides what. Despite people's denial the usual root of people getting upset when they see frank the 500lber on a c50 is jealousy. "Frank can't be a true enthusiast because he's fat... He doesnt deserve the bike because of his condition (i.e. but i'm in good condition therefore I do)." Give me a break. Its a free country folks, if you want a c50 bust your ass until you can buy one. But dont hate on someone else because they have it and you dont think they deserve it. Maybe channel some of the energy you expend on thinking about how the fat guy doesnt deserve his pinarello into figuring out a way to get your own. People complain about the acceptance of cycling yet no 'outsiders' seem to be worthy of joining the clique. Quite the catch-22.

cbip

What I'm trying to say is anyone can call themselves a RACER, but at least temper it with an honest grading of your ability. I constantly hear " I race crits" or " When I raced at so and so this past weekend"
and thats fine. Anyone that will line up against others in a competitive sport is surely a passionate and competitive person, but just because you line up doesnt mean you are a Racer. It means that you have the desire, guts and ego to place yourself in a win lose situation. I can run the 100 meter dash but I'm not a sprinter, I can dunk a basketball but that doesnt make me a player, hell, I can hit a golf ball farther than almost anyone on this planet but that doesnt make me a Golfer.
If everyone would be honest about there abilities, we would all recognize that until you get paid to do these things we are all just great amature competitors.
Just because you "race" someone it doesnt make you a racer, its who you race that is important.
Line up with Danielson and see how fast he disappears on the horizon. All the rest of this is just talk. Typical of most Forums.

ravenmore

No, I call myself a "racer" because it says so on my racing license. That and I participate in , you know, races and stuff.

Plus, technically, 2Roadies HAS ridden with Lance Armstrong - so there ya go.

2Rodies

If I go to a race. Compete in a race. Am I not a racer? Is a collage football player not a football player until he gets a pro contract? You are making little sense here. I can appriciate that you want people to qualify their discription of themselves as amature racer rather than just racer. But the fact remains they are still racers.

2Rodies

Hey you are right, I spent over an hour riding with him....good now I can call myself a racer with a clear conscience.

cbip

And you climb hills on Thursday nights and you ride the flats on Tuesday and you ride Nelos on Wed, and you do the Dam Loop on Sunday, yea I know. But come on Ravenmore, do you really think that Ivan Basso would call you a "Racer". No way! He would consider you a fast Recreational rider. Your a racer when the thought of you causes concern to other riders.
Now to me, Yes you are a racer, and so is 2roadies but to the guy in the tour.................probably not.

cbip

Hey I rode with a guy, who rode with Lance. I guess I'm a racer too.
Man you guys are gullable. I just threw out the hook, your the ones who took it.

Mo'Phat

Wow, I can smell the back pedaling from here.

GuitarWizard

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't really make sense on a logical level. I have never seen anyone on this forum (although I've only been on here since last August) try to deceive anyone into believing that they are what they aren't. Plenty of people on here race.....and most, if not all, race reports indicate what category they're racing in, the type of race, etc.

So......let's pose this. You're on vacation, brought the golf clubs with you. As you're taking them out of the trunk to bring up to the hotel room, another guy a few cars down notices you have clubs, and is looking for a partner the following morning to play with.

Stranger: "Fellow golfer I see..."
You: "No"
Stranger: "Well, you have....golf clubs....you don't play?"
You: "Yes, I play golf"
Stranger: ".......ok.....so you play golf, but you're not a golfer?"
You: "That is correct"
Stranger: "Can you explain that to me, I don't understand."
You: "Well, I'm not on the PGA Tour"
Stranger: "..........."
You: "To consider yourself a golfer, you have to get paid and be at the top level of the sport"
Stranger: "..........."
You: "So do you consider yourself a golfer, just because you happen to play golf?"
Stranger: "Yeah, well.....I have to go....oh, and here's my card in case you ever need someone to talk to. I'm a psychiatrist."
You: (mutters under breath) "What a quack."

2Rodies

You missed the part about sarcasm in school didn't you.

Ginetta

I think the point trying to be made is that there is a difference between a 'racer' and someone who 'races'. I race cars as well, to the point where I get paid to drive, but its a part time gig. I wouldnt introduce myself and say hi... My name is ____ I am a race car driver. I have a regular job, racing isnt a full time gig. When you introduce yourself to someone and they ask what you did for a living would you say "I race bicycles." No, you wouldnt. There is the distinction. If you compete at an extremely high level at something (pro) it is quite different than being very good or even amazing at that same sport. Perhaps cbip see's a lot of people that dont quite understand this fact, and it pisses him off when he sees those same people think someone else isnt 'worthy'. I can agree with that.