OK, so you've all heard me tell how my 2006 Cannondale Six13 is the best racing bike ever, etc. And in many respects it IS. But what really kills me is I wasn't going to put my old Ibis Titanium Road back together - I figured, it's 10 years old, lots of miles on the frame, etc. Then I finally decided: why not, a new bike like this would cost $6K. So I did it.

I'm amazed at myself for ever doubting that decision. I love the Six13, but NOTHING is like Ti. And all you weenies with Litespeeds, Sevens, IF's, Merlins, Deans, Serottas etc. KNOW it. Don't you?

In a race or competitive ride situation I'd probably opt for the Cannondale. It's a pound lighter, stiffer BB, better climber, etc. But not by that much really. For those long/solo daily training rides - let's just say the Cannondale will be a MUCH lower mileage road bike thanks to the presence of that Ibis in my garage.

Bottom line: if you can only afford one high end bike for your cycling addiction, it's VERY hard to argue against Ti in my opinion. For a slew of reasons.

ibis

+1. Well stated, kind sir!

Nice bikes!... that Cannondale would look soo hot in Campy! BTW what is your seat angle?

I own a variety of bikes and like/appreciate them all for their unique characteristics. That being said, I have to completely agree with your comments on Ti. I'm riding mine after work tonight!

I'm not sure what the seat angle is. The one that works for my whacked out back. And I will forgive you for your Campy remark. But we shall never speak of this again.

I like your bikes because they are not Campy.

Btw, I love ma Ti too.

Exactly.

Good explanation, not always the best for sprinting to the line, but possibly the best for centuries, long rides, and frequent rides.

The Ibis SINGS to me when I ride it. The Cdale is great, don't get me wrong, but there's a soul to that Ti frame that nothing I've ever ridden can match. My old Spectrum (a Merlin acutally) was similar - but the Ibis is a MUCH better frame design. Also newer (1995 model vs. 1990 or so) and butted tubing (the Merlin was an early Ti frame, straight guage). Again, you give up a LITTLE in performance to a CF frame or a bike like the Six13 - but for most of us that's not really so important. I'd say the strongest attribute to that Cdale to recommend it over the Ti bike is the way it climbs. Amazing climber. But the Ibis climbs very well too. And that Ti ride....

Yes, my Merlin may not be as light at a cf race frame but it is really comfortable. The closest thing to it is a Reynolds 853 frame.

::sighs:: can't wait till I can get a Ti

This is why I love my OCLV Trek.....has unbelievable road dampening abilities, it's stiff where it needs to be but doesn't beat the crap out of you, and handles great. It just gives an overall great ride. It's technically a "race bike", but it has all-day ride comfort. Best of both worlds, IMO.

Mine "sings" to me as well.....on those rare days when I actually get a tailwind and can hear the drivetrain and wheels whirring along at 26+ mph, with no interruptions from the frame making any noise (since carbon is a non-ferrous material). Took me a bit at first to get used to it....and like many others, I thought it "felt dead" at first, but then I learned to embrace it, and now I love it.

I would really like to try a Ti bike someday though, as it's the only frame material I haven't ridden on yet.

So what I've always wondered is, if you have a Ti bike with a carbon fork and especially with a carbon seatstay, does it feel more like a carbon bike than a Ti bike?

I'd imagine you still get a different feel from the rest of the Ti frame and the bottom bracket, but the main points of "feel" for the road surface is the fork and the seatstay, no?

Which leads to a brief question for all the Ti afficionados as I ponder a Ti frame purchase in the near future: given the choice of a Ti frame with a carbon seatstay or not which would you recommend? In other words, will I lose the particular Ti feel with those carbon parts?

I did test ride the 2006 OCLV Trek (the $5000 model) and liked it, but thought the Cannondale Six13 was a more responsive bike overall.

But 'responsive' doesn't quite convey the lively feel that a good Ti frame imparts when you ride it. Not only would you have to experience that first hand to know what I'm talking about, I had to own both a CF (or in the case of the Six13 an Alu/CF mix) and a ti simultaneously - and have a chance to 'A-B' compare them on a daily basis for a month or two - before I really knew what I was talking about here. Very tough for most cyclists of course, since a good Ti bike - or a good CF bike - will EACH set you back $4-$6K for the most part. That's a lot of dough.

Always knew I loved my Ti bikes - now I know more specifically why. That doesn't mean I'd give up the Cannondale or some other high zoot carbon ride like the Giant or Trek - just that Ti is DIFFERENT and in some important respects superior. In overall feel/ride experience. But this is all quite subjective. Just one weenie's view.

You probably have already considered this, but it's good to reinforce it.
If possible, get a long test ride on each type and see what you like. If an employee of the bike shop is going on a ride maybe you can go along on a longer test ride. That will probably give you more accurate information than a posted description.

And it's also based on two bikes that were designed with two different applications in mind. There are some pretty amazing long distance carbon frames out there.

- to me, a Ti bike w/carbon fork and seatstay would not feel like a carbon bike...

- and no, IMHO, i would not get a Ti frame w/carbon seatstays... (i'm sure such bikes are great rides, but i'd rather have a frame of homogenous material)

- btw, love my Merlin Fortius - i use it for my 3-hour+ saddle time rides... but i also like my 'pawn shop' special steel-frame bike, too!

:-)

I don't necessarily agree. The ibis Ti Road and the Cannondale Six13 are both pretty much full bore racing frames from what I can see.

You CF weenies don't GET it. It's not that CF doesn't absorb road shock, or that it's not comfortable - of course it does/is. It's that it doesn't FEEL like Ti.

Ride one for a couple of weeks (a good Ti frame) and get back to us later. Unless you're too happy riding to EVER post here again. Which could happen : ).

Ti frames with carbon seat stays? Interesting. They're popular on the high end. I'd LOVE to try one of those some time. That might REALLY be the ticket.

I have ridden a Litespeed Classic for the last 8 years and last Wednesday crashed in a crit so I picked up a new Merlin Cielo because I bent the frame on the Classic. The Cielo is a Ti lugged carbon tubed bike. It is just as lively as a Ti bike but dampens like carbon and is so much stiffer then my litespeed. I love the thing. I think I will never go back to a full Ti bike for a everyday ride and will stay with the material blend do to the fact you get the best characteristics of both of them.
I rode a chromoly frame before the litespeed and have ridden a Trek postal bike from about 5 years ago and to date this new Merlin is the best ride and feel for a everday bike that I have found. I wasn't too fond of the full carbon feel. To me this feels more like my old chromoly frame but a heck of a lot stiffer.

Interesting concept....

I just bought a frame and tried my darndest to find one within my budget that was TI. Ever since i did a research paper on the metal in 6th grade iv'e been a TI fan...never had the chance to ride a bike made out of one, but i see myself buying titanium before carbon.

For this poor chap though its Al for now

I would love to own one of those, but i think my next bike will be the pedal force version, pretty much the same deal but way way way way cheaper. would have to mortgage my house to buy a cielo *drool* though.

Soooo.. Alegre99.... beautiful Merlin.... just beautiful.... but how does that ride w/o tires???

Shouldn't this bike be photographed in front of a Ferrari or a mansion - instead of an 8' weathered fence?

IMHO, a Ti frame with CF seat stays defeats the one biggest remaining advantage of having a Ti frame-- durability. Today, its possible to build a CF frame that is lighter than virtually any Ti frame, stiffer laterally, and as vetically compliant for comfort. So the best reason to buy a Ti frame today is that it is very durable, will survive crashes that would likely destroy a CF frame, and cosmetically will retain its appearance through years of use and abuse. By adding CF into the frame, you suddenly have a frame that is no more durable than a CF frame, and you've lost the advantage of a Ti frame in the first place.