In the two months or so I that run the Force drivetrain(about 1000 miles), I did not feel that Sram was any smoother than Shimano. I test rode many campy equipped bikes as well, and Shimano by far has the smoothest downshift transition, going from a smaller to a bigger sprocket. I didn't notice any difference among the brands during up shift. Even when price is not a factor, I don't think force is comparable with DA or Record (or even Chorus) in terms of performance and aesthetics. There are many reasons to try out a new product and I applaud people who gave force, and by extension, new technology a try. However, I don't think that marketing a product based on 1) price and 2) novelty is an honest way of introducing your equpiments to the global market. Sram is marketing their new group to roadies who already owned either shimy or campy set ups, not newbies buying their first road bike(ergo, making the leap). Secondly, as of right now, their they do not offer parts for service and will not let you order individual shifter(in cased you break one or the other). I know beause I asked them directly through my LBS. So yes, I have the means to replace pricy components, but it has to be within reasons. Last time I checked, Shimano and campy both have parts/individual shifter for order should you break one.

Yes.

no.

DA and Ultegra chains are identical except for an extra coating on DA. The are both made by KMC. They both are made the same way. They both weigh the same. No sense buying a DA chain when the Ultegra is the same chain but cheaper.

New brifters go for $300-$350 on eBay. Of course, if you're converting a Shimano bike, the Force RD goes for $30 less than the Campy one, the Casette change is nonexistent ($100 for Record?) and the wheel/hub change is nonexistent (however much money you want to claim here). If you're trying to decide about which *brifter* setup to go to, it's cheaper to go SRAM.

Someone insert the RD converting mechanism here.

Dura-ace perhaps, but Shimano 105 (9-speed) was not as sharp/smooth in downshifting as Campy Veloce. I tried diff. 105's at diff. bike stores and diff. veloce's and it was always the same. Campy was crisp in every direction, Shimano was crisp in upshift only, and maybe 90% crisp in downshift. Haven't tried SRAM yet.

By that logic why buy Centaur? Veloce is virtually the same group for less. Centaur has always been the dud of the Campagnolo line.

Stop being such a Sram schill. If you need to replace a broken Sram shifter, you need to buy a pair(they are not sold singularly). How is it cheaper again?

Yes they do. You might think about getting new hands.

I just built up an R3 with SRAM force ( except the Dura ace chain and Ultegra cassette ) I am now thinking that It would be best to use a Dura Ace front Derailleur, I am simply not getting a good feel from the Sram on the front. Other than that, I like everything about it.

If only I were a shill. But if I were, I'm sure I'd say that:

1. One broken shifter doesn't happen all that often.
2. Even if it did, I'd buy both (and by then they'll be $200-$250 online) and sell the other one on eBay.
3. Unless you know how I can become an SRAM shill, please don't call me one.

By the way, I just looked up Campy Record 10 spd casettes - $190. So I could go with:

Record Shifters: 250
Record RD: 250
(Optional) Record Cassette for my light wheels: $190
(Optional) New Hub for my light wheels: $50 (?)
Powertap conversion cassette: $104
Chain: $50 (don't know if shimano chains are compatible with campy or not).

Total: $604 + shipping for least-amount-possible, or $844 + shipping for comparable to the system I would get with SRAM. An extra $50 if you include the chain.

SRAM:
RD: $85
Brifters: $320
Total: $405. Close to $440 difference. Hell, I can buy an extra set of brifters as spares and still be ahead.

there's always a bigger fish....

ElJamoquio , You are lost. I'll explain this once more .

If while running Dura Ace, one (1) of the brifters breaks, I can buy a single Dura Ace brifter to replace the one (1) that's broken.

If while running Sram Force, one (1) of the brifters breaks, I must buy a pair(2) of Force brifters to replace the one (1) that's broken.

2 Sram brifters, cost more than 1 Dura Ace brifter.

What part of this do you not understand?

I can convert my bike to SRAM, buy two sets of brifters, and still be $100 or more cheaper than Campy.

What part of this do you not understand?

FYI, I never said anything about SRAM vs. Shimano. The point was mentioned about converting a bike *from* Shimano.

I quote this only so BoSoxYacht doesn't have to look it up for himself.

Ibid.

I'll take an apology in the form of pie.

SRAM makes good components...for mountain bikes.


Seriously though do you think there will ever be a time when manufacturers mix-n-match SRAM/Shimano components like they currently do with non-road bikes? It seems to work well for them, they give you the cheapest components at whatever level gruppo is matched to the frame.

IMHO, wait a time for the parts to be perfected, and SRAM parts will take over road biking like they took over mountain bikes, and at more competitive prices. Even their cheapo components work well!

I can't understand why you would want to spend any $$$ on a conversion to an inferior product. Is it to be an R+D rider for Sram(maybe you can be the one to find cause for a second recall)? Good luck with their stuff.

I'll think about trying it when Sram gets all the bugs out(maybe 2009)

I didn't say I *did* want to convert my bike. I was thinking about converting to either SRAM or Campy. I'm glad you have your opinion of SRAM, but I was just presenting facts to the tiny audience who was considering how 'expensive' it is to convert to SRAM brifters. If all you're looking for is the non-Shimano brifter, then it's much less expensive to convert to SRAM than Campy.

P.S. where's my pie?

I never said that it wasn't cheaper to do your conversion either. I simply point out that for racers(or anyone that could crash often) who break a(1) brifter, get screwed by sram. They force the purchase of a pair. This will cost you more

The arguement that you could sell it on ebay is weak. That takes time, and effort(and there is no guaranty that it will sell when you want it to).

P.S. Bake your own pie.

I don't really think he is being any more a SRAM shill than you are being a Shimano fanboy. However, this is not all bad. As i said before, I own a group from all three companies. I just prefer SRAM and Campy to my DA [it's currently without a bike to call home]. I'm not sure how you can call SRAM an inferior product unless you spend any decent amount of time with it. I chose to go with SRAM on my Opal because a) i REALLY like the double tap shifters and b) it cost me $4200 where as it would have been $4700 for DA and $5400 for Record. Can't argue with getting top of the line for less.

Plus, SRAM Force was voted best gear of '06 by countless publications. They also wouldn't be putting it on racing teams if it hadn't passed the R&D stages already. I highly doubt that a company with a reputation like SRAM [in mt. biking and other areas] would put out a second rate product for trial and error.

In the end, it's all about what YOU like to ride. Some people swear by one brand alone. Others, like me, choose to try them all and decide later on. All 3 have advantages and disadvantages. The important thing is to get out there and ride!

I like Sram components, and use them on my mountain bike, but Sram Force is just a good gruppo in a sea of better ones. Actually I'm not a fan of Shimano at all, but their road components work to damn well to ignore.

True, i think that Shimano is great. I'm just the dumb@$$ that sometimes (not always) brakes a little when they just want to shift [small hands and i ride in the drops a lot]. I really like Record, but it was just too much money when i was already slightly over budget, plus i was curious about the new guy. Force was a great compromise. As I said before, DA wins HANDS DOWN when shifting up front, IMO. I just think the exact actuation in the rear of SRAM is fantastic (and slightly better than DA). Just me though...