Yeah, those Nikon, Canon and Mamiya cameras are just total crap. Who would want any of that junk?

I think you can say that Swiss precision is better than high-quality mass production, but in most cases you're splitting hairs, and I can't even count how many pro shooters use Japanese-made cameras and optics. Or for bikes, how many pros ride Asian-made frames and components.

Is it me, or does it seem unlikely that Dura-Ace is made in Italy?

A factory is a factory is a factory. All Pinarello needs is a) good relationships with the manufacturers and b) good QA staff, and it doesn't matter one bit where it comes from.

i think it matters if they are misleading consumers to believe the product originates elsewhere. I briefly went to the website and couldn't really find any mention of where the bikes are manufactured. there are plenty of italian flags though and talk of "great craftsmanship", etc.

i know this is the norm, but i think more companies should just be forthright with it.

The skill's in designing the bike.

fixed

i dont see the big deal about production in asia. Yea it promotes outsourcing- but the frames would be made in italy anyways so doesnt affect the us. I have heard/seen horror stories about crappy construction of forks/frames, but that would happen anywhere: it just happens to be cheaper to produce in asia since they have established the infrastructure and pay less to employees.

I think it's true, but the only problem is that after you ride, you just want to ride again in an hour.

Actually the mamiyas are pretty crappy and most of the products they distribute are too, compare an induro tripod made in china to a bogen tripod made in italy and the quality jump in the bogen is astonishing. A factory isn't a factory, that thinking is why Americans are buying increasingly crappy products now at increasing prices.

But my question is answered and honestly if a prince is made in china why pay 5k for the frame.

if ignorance is bliss, then you must be one happy mofo.

Please enlighten me botto i mean if you can tear yourself away from your delightful and useless terse wit for a second.

Why is a pinarello prince worth 5k when its mass made in a factory by a company that distributes to a handful of companies. Is it the quality of the frame or the name and association with hand built in italy.

It's because people will buy it at 5k...
Don't people realize that capital is global?

Wow this thing came back from the grave haha.

Hah, I couldn't resist...

get over it.

i gotta say i've seen a bunch of pinarello's lately, F4:13's, FP5's, and of course Prince's and i like them alot more in pictures than i do in person. I gotta say though my lbs has a FP5 with all dura ace and the things like 3600 i think, that seems like a *****in deal.

You saw Jesus Christ in the bike store? Or was it an image in the Zipp disc wheel?

Colnago does....several of their bikes/frames specifically say they were made in Taiwan. The upper end stuff is made in Italy, but that's because the bike's muy expensive and not many are made. The production bikes, they just don't have the space to make more frames. They import both carbon and aluminum.

BTW...we had this discussion in the fall, I think, where we were looking at generic Taiwan frames and trying to decipher how many companies were using the same basic generic frame. Repaint and rebadge it to make it look "different"...one of the posters had purchased a frame for (as I recall) $450 that was used on an Italian manufacturer multi-thousand dollar bike.

Like the one pictured...

People chuckle about Trek and Cannondale...I met the guy that laid up the carbon for my System Six, and I know that 5 and 6 series Madone's are made in Waterloo. Not a factory in Taiwan.

When I had dinner last night, I ate off of china. And it wasn't the "good china", either. It was the regular china. We only get the good china out for special occasions.

Generally, people associate Italians with craftsmanship and fine attention to detail, whereas Asia is cheap labor and poorly made products, using mercury, lead based paints, and shoddy mfg techniques, along with child labor and lack of QA.

That being said, Kestrel, my personal favorite, is made in taiwan now, and still one of the best framesets I know. Martec, the carbon fiber company in Taiwan does exceptional work, providing framesets for Kestrel, Kuota, and numerous other companies.

Also, yeah my Trek Fuel EX 9.5 as made in Wateloo as well. Sinc eI'm across the lake in MI I've pondered a trip there to meet the carbon frame builder(s) as well.

It's funny, but when I use to ride motorcycles (Japanese), my friends and I wouldn't touch anything Italian with a barge pole. Too poorly made and unreliable when compared to Japanese bikes.

Also, my aluminium Paris has 'fatta in Italia' written on it but it is 3 years old.

I like the orients' "pearls" :-)

I am surprised that people still think that these days. I guess you never owned an Alfa Romeo, Lancia or Ducati in the late 70s early 80s. That was when people used to laugh as Japanese motorcycles.

I think these days there is good and bad coming from everywhere.

Oh and by the way, my US made Trek had the worst paint finish of any bicycle I've ever owned.

i already have.

I was simply answering his question about general perception. I never said I agreed with it, or any other stereotyping.
That said, you're not supposed to paint carbon fiber anyway so of course it's a bad paint job!

seriously though, the bad Trek paint is well documented and a common issue. Glad mine is clear coat carbon.

didn't you know? there's plenty of idiots out there.

Nah, people stopped laughing in the early 1970's after the release of the Honda 750 Four and the Kawasaki H2 and Z1 (they dominated GP racing from about then as well). They were still laughing at Japanese cars up until the late 1970's though.