Pinarello Prince vs. Orbea Orca vs. Cervelo S3 vs. Parlee Z1
10-01-08, 12:59 PM
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He he he....I always say if money is not an issue...buy the one you want! There are certainly a lot of jealous peeps here and if they can put a newbie who has the capacity to buy a bike they can only dream of, they shoot em' down as fast as you can say HTFU!
10-01-08, 01:01 PM
#52
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Why not buy two bikes...one out and out racer like the S3 and a custom carbon supremo frame like the Parlee Z1....that will certainly settle it. :-)
10-01-08, 02:20 PM
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Z1 or Z4 with the same geometry, you would never be able to tell the difference in a blind test. But you might fall or crash if you ride them blindfolded .
10-01-08, 02:51 PM
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I am sure that the vast majority of high quality bikes, some of which are used for racing, are actually ridden by riders who never race them and just enjoy cycling. That is the whole point of professional standards for bicycles used in racing. If the amateur is so inclined he/she can ride that same bicycle that is ridden in the Tour de France. That is certainly good for cycling.
I don't understand the above post's reference to "posers". In the amateur golf world if one sees a golfer out on the course with Titleist of Mizuno golf clubs, one doesn't think there is a "poser". Golfers just look at that person as a "fellow golfer". Think about BMW M3's or M5's that one sees. Those cars are designed to go in excess of 200 mph. One doesn't think of those owners as a "poser".
Rather than belittling a legitimate post. Perhaps a better way to look at it is this. The more cycling enthusiasts there are, the better it is for all cyclists. It will gradually force changes on our transportation network. If someone buys one of the bikes in the original post that is good for all cyclists because it encourages cycling innovation and helps to reduce manufacturing unit costs. Great ideas on high end bicycles filter down to bicycles of all price ranges.
The S2 may have been stiff. According to Cervelo the S3 will have the seat stays similar to the R3. From their web site.
Get a Grip Cycles in Chicago has a 2009 Orca. It is a small frame so it is not going to work for a test ride. Has anyone here done a test ride on the 2009 Orca?
I don't understand the above post's reference to "posers". In the amateur golf world if one sees a golfer out on the course with Titleist of Mizuno golf clubs, one doesn't think there is a "poser". Golfers just look at that person as a "fellow golfer". Think about BMW M3's or M5's that one sees. Those cars are designed to go in excess of 200 mph. One doesn't think of those owners as a "poser".
Rather than belittling a legitimate post. Perhaps a better way to look at it is this. The more cycling enthusiasts there are, the better it is for all cyclists. It will gradually force changes on our transportation network. If someone buys one of the bikes in the original post that is good for all cyclists because it encourages cycling innovation and helps to reduce manufacturing unit costs. Great ideas on high end bicycles filter down to bicycles of all price ranges.
The S2 may have been stiff. According to Cervelo the S3 will have the seat stays similar to the R3. From their web site.
Vertically compliant – Seatstays as thin as on the R3, but rotated 90 degrees and reshaped for aerodynamics. Light, comfortable and aero, the best in aero road bike engineering.
Perfect balance – Aero, light, stiff and comfortable, the S3 works. Several companies make aero road bikes, but only the Cervélo aero road bikes were used extensively at the hilly Olympic road race, a testament to their balanced approach.
According to Competitive Cyclist the S3 has not shipped yet so one cannot know exactly what the new changes in the S3 really mean. However it is my understanding that the R3 has a comfortable ride.Perfect balance – Aero, light, stiff and comfortable, the S3 works. Several companies make aero road bikes, but only the Cervélo aero road bikes were used extensively at the hilly Olympic road race, a testament to their balanced approach.
Get a Grip Cycles in Chicago has a 2009 Orca. It is a small frame so it is not going to work for a test ride. Has anyone here done a test ride on the 2009 Orca?
I grew up cycling...and played competitive golf so well aware of the 18 handicapper's propensity to try and buy a golf game playing Mizuno forgings they can't hit and a 46" driver with 7 degrees of loft they slice and hit barely 200 yards. It is very similar to road biking which is the point. There is the Giant OCR and Trek Pilot and Specialized Robaix which most fat freds belong on and yet they gravitate to the bikes mentioned by the OP. Its OK. As stated...just deserts to those that pay a needless penalty for stiffness if that is what they want. BTW..beware of the guy who carries 8 clubs in his bag with 2 woods and bullseye putter that look like they are twenty years old if the issue of a golf bet comes up...but you likely know that. I will generally play a guy for greens fees if he plays with matching irons and head covers with new bag. 
10-01-08, 03:14 PM
#58
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The trick is to make a Z1 an under $10,000 build. But I have yet to see anyone succeed at that!
Nonetheless, I'm another vote for the Z1 out of all the models on the OP's list, for the very reasons already mentioned here: If you're gonna spend that much money on a bike why wouldn't you get it custom? Even if for no other reason than bragging rights: "This bike was made specifically for me, not picked off the shelf by some minimum wage stock boy in the Orbea factory!"
Seriously, I've spoken with Tom Rodi at the Parlee shop and the level of attention I got as a spur-of-the-moment tire kicker was infinitely more informative, reassuring, and encouraging than any dealings I've ever had with a Big Bike Company. You want a stiff ride? Ask them to build you a stiff ride. You want a squishy ride? Ask them to build you a squishy ride. You want something laterally stiff yet vertically compliant? Ask them...and be prepared to get an education in what is and isn't possible with bike frame design, not as some abstract concept in materials science but AS IT APPLIES TO YOUR PARTICULAR BODY, RIDING STYLE, AND PERSONAL LIKES/DISLIKES. Again: why wouldn't you buy custom?
Parlee ftw.
With Crumpton, Calfee, & Ruegamer close behind.
====================================
...and if you are gonna consider an off-the-shelf bike, I agree with poster #2 (or was it #3?), add the BMC SLC01 to your short list.
Nonetheless, I'm another vote for the Z1 out of all the models on the OP's list, for the very reasons already mentioned here: If you're gonna spend that much money on a bike why wouldn't you get it custom? Even if for no other reason than bragging rights: "This bike was made specifically for me, not picked off the shelf by some minimum wage stock boy in the Orbea factory!"
Seriously, I've spoken with Tom Rodi at the Parlee shop and the level of attention I got as a spur-of-the-moment tire kicker was infinitely more informative, reassuring, and encouraging than any dealings I've ever had with a Big Bike Company. You want a stiff ride? Ask them to build you a stiff ride. You want a squishy ride? Ask them to build you a squishy ride. You want something laterally stiff yet vertically compliant? Ask them...and be prepared to get an education in what is and isn't possible with bike frame design, not as some abstract concept in materials science but AS IT APPLIES TO YOUR PARTICULAR BODY, RIDING STYLE, AND PERSONAL LIKES/DISLIKES. Again: why wouldn't you buy custom?
Parlee ftw.
With Crumpton, Calfee, & Ruegamer close behind.
====================================
...and if you are gonna consider an off-the-shelf bike, I agree with poster #2 (or was it #3?), add the BMC SLC01 to your short list.
10-01-08, 03:32 PM
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I couldn't agree more. While custom is needed for a few people, standard frames fit the overwhelming majority. I ended up with a custom Ti. The bike ended up virtually identical in geometry to a stock steel bike I already had as well as a new CF.
10-01-08, 04:13 PM
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I have a custom Pegoretti. When we were done with the fitting, Dario and I had a chuckle that my bike was dead on stock. Well for the most part. Still enjoyed the experience..
10-01-08, 05:52 PM
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ride them all.
choose the Prince.
plan for a $10,000 build
you are not going to put low-end shimano on these frames
only Super Record will do.
choose the Prince.
plan for a $10,000 build
you are not going to put low-end shimano on these frames
only Super Record will do.
10-02-08, 06:49 AM
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As far as all day comfort goes, I don't think you are going to get that with any of those bikes, and as far as speed, you are going to be hard pressed to find a bike faster or stiffer in the BB for sprints than the Madone 6.5 you already have. I know people have stong opinions about Trek's (usually negative) on here, but the '08 Madone, especially the 6.5 is one helluva nice ride.
10-02-08, 07:00 AM
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I was surprised that the CF Pinarellos really are all-day comfortable. Granted mine was an F4:13, but the main differences are weight and swankiness of the carbon... YMMV.
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10-02-08, 07:12 AM
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In my garage you will find a 2007 Crumpton - custom for me, a 2007 Look 595 - off the rack, a 2005 Parlee Z2 - custom for someone else, a 2004 Colnago C50 - off the rack and a 1998 Calfee Tetra Pro - custom for someone else.
That order is the order I would I would keep them if I had to give any of them up.
The custom Crumpton is an outstanding bike, tuned to my needs and a total joy to ride. It's almost 2Gs less than a Z1 and $700 less than the Prince. You don't have it on your list, you should.
The Look is darn close to the Crumpton and almost 3Gs less than a Z1 and $1500 less than a Prince.
The Parlee is a great bike, but for what you get I think Parlee's prices are hugely inconsistent these days with competing products.
I love the C50 and the Tetra Pro, but they are (for me) subtly less fun to ride than the preceding 3.
I think you need to think a bit more broadly in the price range you are considering. If you're really serious about a $10,000 bike, spread the net a bit wider. And I would probably drop the Orbea unless you are buying it for the looks. I would also throw a Look 585 on the list based on value alone.
That order is the order I would I would keep them if I had to give any of them up.
The custom Crumpton is an outstanding bike, tuned to my needs and a total joy to ride. It's almost 2Gs less than a Z1 and $700 less than the Prince. You don't have it on your list, you should.
The Look is darn close to the Crumpton and almost 3Gs less than a Z1 and $1500 less than a Prince.
The Parlee is a great bike, but for what you get I think Parlee's prices are hugely inconsistent these days with competing products.
I love the C50 and the Tetra Pro, but they are (for me) subtly less fun to ride than the preceding 3.
I think you need to think a bit more broadly in the price range you are considering. If you're really serious about a $10,000 bike, spread the net a bit wider. And I would probably drop the Orbea unless you are buying it for the looks. I would also throw a Look 585 on the list based on value alone.
10-02-08, 07:39 AM
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I'm really not trying to flame (see my 3cm stack on previous page) and I don't know about custom builds, never having owned one but I always thought if I got a custom then I could get a longer headtube.
10-02-08, 07:44 AM
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How much does it weigh?
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10-02-08, 07:46 AM
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How much does it weigh?
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Go for a Simplon(custom) or Spin(custom) - not seen too often in the United States, deservingly heralded frames.
10-02-08, 08:38 AM
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It hadn't been cut yet......lol... I don't cut my tube's down too low on any of my bikes. I may wan't to sell it some day. I learned that the hard way.. I think this is a life long keeper, but you never know.
Last edited by MadeInItaly; 10-02-08 at 09:03 AM.
10-02-08, 10:32 AM
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...not!
I must admit I was a bit shocked by the 2008 price increase from Parlee. As the good folks there reminded me, all prices now include fork, headset and FD clamp, plus there is no longer an upcharge for different tubes (e.g., X, Uni, SL, XS)...but a fully custom Z1 still costs $2500 more than a Crumpton SL goes for, so you do have a point.
10-02-08, 12:28 PM
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As has been asked previously, what don't you like about your Madone, and what price do you want for it? Since it is an '08 6.5, and the waiting list on them was fairly long, I can't imagine it has many miles on it or that you've had it very long. Just curious as to why you want to "upgrade" or change bikes so quickly?
Last edited by DigitalRJH; 10-02-08 at 12:31 PM.
10-02-08, 02:57 PM
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That's tricky, they throw in $200 (probably $100 at their cost) worth of hardware and raise the frame price to $6700.
I about passed out when I saw that. The Z2 is even now $6000. Makes me feel like a really bright boy for picking up mine, a shop demo, for $1900, frame/fork.
I'm not knocking Parlee, but sheesh. Nic Crumpton is a saint by comparison (and a genuinely great guy to work with.)
I about passed out when I saw that. The Z2 is even now $6000. Makes me feel like a really bright boy for picking up mine, a shop demo, for $1900, frame/fork.
I'm not knocking Parlee, but sheesh. Nic Crumpton is a saint by comparison (and a genuinely great guy to work with.)
10-02-08, 03:11 PM
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You folks better stop leaking the Crumpton secret. He will start raising prices too. Not to mention you are gonna add months to the wait period.
10-02-08, 04:35 PM
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When in doubt buy Canadian 
Seriously, you need to test drive the bikes to see what works best for you.
Seriously, you need to test drive the bikes to see what works best for you.