Just wanted to say this is a great thread, that has hopefully gotten me back on track on my bike fit. I got back into riding a couple years ago, and have been working on my bike fit. My commute has lengthened to about 44 miles one way now and I started to have some neck and shoulders tightness. I was going down the path of shorter stems, higher bars. I couldnt understand why a long waisted guy like myself kept feeling like shortening my stem and highering my bars as needed for comfort. I put my seat all the way back and rode in today. I also experimented with siting farther back on the saddle. I could really feel the pressure lessen on my hands, and actually felt better the more stretched out I got. I looked over my saddles and see that my San Marco has longer rails and I will try that.

I certainly dont want to take any sides on this issue, but it looks like for me atleast, I was sitting too far forward on the bike. The linked articles were great and seems like valuable reading for new riders and returning riders too.

I have said this until I can't say it anymore. [but I am]
Going to the LBS and having Goofy take out his plumb bob to put you at KOP and goniometer to put you at 30 degrees while statically fitting you AND charging you for this is the biggest joke out there and any one who is doing this and charging people should be ashamed of themselves.

Read Peter Whites article, take your allen keys on a couple of rides, get a different stem or two and go feel what it's like to be forward, rearward, shorter stem, longer stem, lower drop.
Also learn good riding posture, ride within your fitness level and have fun.

Goofy has no idea of your flexibility, core strength/fitness, injuries or riding style.
You are your best fitter.

Tom Danielson runs a zero setback post with the saddle slammed all the way forward. https://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/art...news%2Farticle

I was just fitted. I ride a relatively small frame for my size (6'4" on a 58) and the correct post / saddle position for me is a zero set back post with the seat almost centered on the rails.

This is absolutely useless information for anyone else but me.... and that's the point.

You do realize this is pure rubbish in some ways? Having a fit done can be a very productive and effective way to getting a proper fit and if done properly can give a rider just as good or better of a fit than what one can do with Peter White's info.

Lets address a few "minor" things. First off what about cleat placement. As someone who rides lots of miles (over 7000 this year so far) I used to suffer from hot spots on the feet. Proper cleat positioning during the fit eliminated this. I also had a tendency to rotate my right knee outward in each stroke, cleat positioning an a shim fixed this also. Hmmm, where does Peter White mention this?

I also suffered from knee and back pain caused by a couple of knee surgeries and blown disc in my lower back. This is why I quit running and started cycling. The first year I kept trying to find my own fit and was constantly adjusting for what "felt right" or the 'right compromise". Never got there. But with a properly tuned in fit all the pain has been gone this year. I am able to measure and dial the same fit into my other 3 road/CX bikes and ride them for miles in total comfort. This proven by the 50 miler I did just yesterday on my LeMond which is just one of my backup bikes and not the one set up by the fitter. Only pain is in the quads from running out of energy due to a poor breakfast.

My fitter did check me for flexibility, physical issues, riding style and purpose, etc. Aside from the bad knees and back I have a twisted trunk (known this for years) and one leg is slightly longer than the other. All these factors were figured in to the fit.

Oh and KOP is not the proper position for me to use if I want to ride without pain/swelling in my knees. No one set "rule" can apply to all of us and a good fitter is as capable at realizing this as you and I.

Now I am by no means an idiot and can read as many articles on fitting as I want. But a good fitter who has seen and experienced fitting many unique riders over the years is a valuable tool for getting a rider set up properly. To say otherwise is just to be a bit naive in my book.

Nor would I say that everyone needs to have a fit done or that every fitter is good or going to hit on an individual's "right" fit. But to say it's a waste is really doing an injustice to the readers here and to the many good and successful fitters.

It's funny how many people think that saddle setback should somehow be related to frame size in the same way that stem length is. As long as seat tube angle is the same, a rider's saddle setback doesn't change no matter the frame size.

And do not forget the importance of handlebar width and the placement of the "brifters" at the correct spot for your reach on the handlebars.

On the crank length, I can tell the difference between a 172.5mm and a 175 mm crank on my bikes in terms of the required seat position.

(facepalm) - The Cervelo R5CA was designed to be ridden without need for a setback seatpost as a way to further its lightness.

From Cervelo's website:
"This means the R5ca with zero offset post fits exactly the same as any road bike with 73 degree seat tube angle and traditional 25mm offset post. "

Anyway...
I have to agree with reading the Peter White article. It really is pretty good. It's probably best suited for someone who understands their bike fit and just needs a little help really dialing it in.

One thing to keep in mind is that saddle setback does two kind of competing things to your fit, one of which has been brought up but the other I don't think has been. First, having your saddle sufficiently far back should support your weight such that it is easier either to get low or utilize your drops. The second and competing thing in my opinion/experience is that sliding your saddle back closes off your hip angle which may restrict your pedal stroke over the top.

I realize that you qualified this statement, but when I was looking at various photos from this year's TdF I was surprised at the number of pros that had spacers.

Do you have a hard time adjusting the seat on that F1? I know my Laguna Seca has very little adjustment.

I changed from setback seatpost to zero setback on advice from my local bike mechanic who is also an A grade Vets rider with 20+ years of riding and racing experience. I wasn't feeling any pain or discomfort before or after (been using zero setback for about a year now). I didn't change anything else, same length stem and cranks.

This is a great thread!

I'm curious, what are the symptoms of having too much setback? And, what is the usual difference between too little and too much setback - are we talking 1 or 2 cm? More, or less??

I dont know if I'm doing it "right", but a variant on the let go of the handlebars has worked well for me. I get on the bike, while coasting put all your weight into your legs so your butt and hands are barely touching the saddle and bars. You will automatically slide back or forward until you are balanced on the pedals. Wherever your butt is, that's where your seat should be - wherever your hands want to go is where your stem should place the bars.

Someone should tell Chris Horner to put a setback post on his bike and not slam his seat forward on the rails...sigh.

Yes, but seat tube angle tends to change with frame size. For any given bike, smaller frames tend to have a steeper STA so dropping a frame size may require moving the saddle back slightly to maintain the same relationship with the pedals.