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Need suggestions for a solid rear wheel build

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Need suggestions for a solid rear wheel build

Old 05-25-10, 11:53 AM
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glacious
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Need suggestions for a solid rear wheel build

I'm currently riding a 2007 tricross /w s-works E5 frame, with the stock Roval wheels:
Roval Classique Pavé SL, 24 hole, Roval QR (rear hub)
Roval Classique Pavé SL, alloy deep-section double wall rim, welded joint, machined sidewalls (rims)

The rear rim has started to crack around some of the spoke nipples, and after my first light tour (< 30 lbs on the back) it's gotten a bit worse. The front wheel appears to be holding up just fine.

What I am looking for is a suggestion to keep the hub (24 spoke), and replace the rim/spokes and have it built, or just buy a pre-built rear wheel. I'm ~ 205 lbs, generally ride on roads (very little dirt riding), and I'm looking for a comparable wheel in weight, but definitely stronger. Maybe I just build a completely new wheel, hub and all.


Thanks
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Old 05-25-10, 03:28 PM
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for 200lbs + 30lbs, I would stick to 32h minimum for the rear.
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Old 05-25-10, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AEO View Post
for 200lbs + 30lbs, I would stick to 32h minimum for the rear.
+1
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Old 05-26-10, 09:00 AM
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Looks like it's gonna be a bit heavier than my current wheel set... 32h seems a bit high?
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Old 05-26-10, 02:35 PM
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I doubt it's possible to get a 24h rear wheel that can hold around 60% of 230lbs without it being heavy or very expensive
spokes and nipples aren't that heavy, they add up, but if you go with a light weight hub and lightish rim, then 32h rear wouldn't be that heavy.

32h mavic CXP33 (465g) or kinlin XR-300 rim (455g), formula RB-210 (210g) or Dura Ace or White Ind. H3 (both 260g ish) if you want more durability and DT comp 2.0/1.8 DB spokes for drive side, DT revo 2.0/1.5 DB spokes for the non drive side and brass nipples all around should be around or under 900g.

light, durable or cheap, pick 2.
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Last edited by AEO; 05-26-10 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-26-10, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by glacious View Post
Looks like it's gonna be a bit heavier than my current wheel set... 32h seems a bit high?
Do you want to be riding or breaking rims.... you decide. +2 on the 32 out back or better yet 36.
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Old 05-26-10, 05:53 PM
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I also agree with going with at least 32 spokes.
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Old 05-26-10, 07:34 PM
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With the pair being ~ 1625g now, I assume the rear is around 900g or slightly over. The bike will be used 95% of the time for longer road rides, with maybe a couple tours and tri's each summer. I keep hearing from different sources that spoke count doesn't matter, it's the quality of the wheel build (friends, LBS, etc), and some are very set on the spoke count being the a major determining factor.

I'm hoping to snag just a rear wheel for under $300, maybe I'd rock a pair if there was a good deal on a set that would fit my needs nicely. Thanks again for the insight.
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Old 05-26-10, 09:50 PM
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You can build a rear wheel with 32 or 36 spokes that is still fairly lightweight..

I had a 36 hole Velocity Aerohead built up on Campy Hub with Straight gauge dt spokes that came in right at 950grams..

If you consider using your current hub I would look at using the DT Swiss RR 1.2 / RR585 rim.. 30mm Deep Rim, very solid rim to build up..
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Old 05-26-10, 09:53 PM
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http://www.bikesonline.com/Handspun-...-Pro-Black.htm

rear
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Old 05-27-10, 07:33 AM
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Rim? Either a DT RR1.1, or whatever they call it now, or an Open Pro. Hub? Campy Record, Dura-Ace 7700 or 7850 or 7900. Nice to have? Chris King R45 or DT240s. Don't build with DT revolutions unless you want a sponge of a wheel.
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Old 05-27-10, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by glacious View Post
Looks like it's gonna be a bit heavier than my current wheel set... 32h seems a bit high?
230+ pounds and you're whining about the extra weight of 8 spokes ?
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Old 05-27-10, 08:14 AM
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Being 6'2" 205lbs, and rarely putting any extra weight on the bike, I don't need wheels to hold 230lbs every day, maybe once or twice a year for light tours. I'm trying to see why many people are obsessed with spoke count being the deciding factor in a solid wheel. There seems to be two schools of thought here. 1) high spoke count is a good wheel 2) a solidly built wheel trumps anything (ie you can have a wheel with 20 spoke count, be much stronger than one with 36).

and yes, if i can have less weight where it matters most... it'd be a good thing.
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Old 05-27-10, 08:57 AM
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my bike and I with water bottles weigh a total of 150 lbs. I run a 32 spoke DT Competition-laced Open Pro Ultegra rear. My rides consist of about 100 ft climbing per mile. Its really not a problem.
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Old 05-27-10, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by glacious View Post
Being 6'2" 205lbs, and rarely putting any extra weight on the bike, I don't need wheels to hold 230lbs every day, maybe once or twice a year for light tours. I'm trying to see why many people are obsessed with spoke count being the deciding factor in a solid wheel. There seems to be two schools of thought here. 1) high spoke count is a good wheel 2) a solidly built wheel trumps anything (ie you can have a wheel with 20 spoke count, be much stronger than one with 36).

and yes, if i can have less weight where it matters most... it'd be a good thing.
if you really want a 24h, then go for a falcrum racing 7, which has more spokes where it counts. It's laced exactly like a 32h on the drive side, but uses less on the side that doesn't need it.

It's not too hard to build this type of wheel. I've built several triplet rear wheels myself.
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Old 05-27-10, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Val23708 View Post
my bike and I with water bottles weigh a total of 150 lbs. I run a 32 spoke DT Competition-laced Open Pro Ultegra rear. My rides consist of about 100 ft climbing per mile. Its really not a problem.
I was actually just looking at the open pros. Seems to be a good build here (same as yours): http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com...od&productId=4 ~$290 for the pair with DT comp spokes and alloy nipples. I'd rock the black or Couche Dure (CD). It'd add about 0.5 lbs more than my current wheelset, but a pricetag that low makes them attractive.
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Old 05-27-10, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by glacious View Post
Being 6'2" 205lbs, and rarely putting any extra weight on the bike, I don't need wheels to hold 230lbs every day, maybe once or twice a year for light tours. I'm trying to see why many people are obsessed with spoke count being the deciding factor in a solid wheel. There seems to be two schools of thought here. 1) high spoke count is a good wheel 2) a solidly built wheel trumps anything (ie you can have a wheel with 20 spoke count, be much stronger than one with 36).

and yes, if i can have less weight where it matters most... it'd be a good thing.
Apparently you're the expert here all of a sudden.

Go ask a wheelbuilder, a good one, one who could build you the best 20 to 24 spoke rear build man's ever seen, and ask him what you should be riding. You'll end up with a 32h 3x wheel. Enjoy it.
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Old 05-27-10, 10:07 AM
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I typically don't put anyone on a 24 spoke wheel on the rear unless their riding weight is less than 160, it's a deep section and strong rim, or it a race only application.

Higher spoke count will equate to a stronger wheel all other factors being held the same.

Wheel build quality has a huge impact on wheel durability, but you can't polish a turd.

Using a 24h for 230lbs is equivalent to bringing a knife to a gunfight. It could be a helluva knife but you're still going to get shot.
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Old 05-27-10, 10:11 AM
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There's a good reason people are recommending more spokes. Don't find out the hard way, when you're down to 23 spokes and 80 miles from home.
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Old 05-27-10, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I typically don't put anyone on a 24 spoke wheel on the rear unless their riding weight is less than 160, it's a deep section and strong rim, or it a race only application.

Higher spoke count will equate to a stronger wheel all other factors being held the same.

Wheel build quality has a huge impact on wheel durability, but you can't polish a turd.

Using a 24h for 230lbs is equivalent to bringing a knife to a gunfight. It could be a helluva knife but you're still going to get shot.
See OP? Just like I told you. Straight from the best wheel builder you can find in these parts.

For reference, I'm 155lbs and I just put in an order with good ole Psimet for a 24h, 2x, 30mm deep alu FRONT, and couldn't be happier with the though of having a strong, durable wheel.
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Old 05-27-10, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I typically don't put anyone on a 24 spoke wheel on the rear unless their riding weight is less than 160, it's a deep section and strong rim, or it a race only application.

Higher spoke count will equate to a stronger wheel all other factors being held the same.

Wheel build quality has a huge impact on wheel durability, but you can't polish a turd.

Using a 24h for 230lbs is equivalent to bringing a knife to a gunfight. It could be a helluva knife but you're still going to get shot.
+1

Don't worry about the wheel weight. It doesn't make much difference at all. I've been winning races for a few years on the same 32h 3x rear wheel.

If you don't go for a deep rim (Kin Lin XR-300 is my fav), then at least get an off-center spoke line. My rear is a Velocity Aerohead OC that I built very carefully. 2.5 years later, the only time it's needed a spoke wrench is when a stick tossed in there and broke a spoke 9 months ago -- replaced spoke and it's perfect since then.

With a centered deep-v style rim, I'd consider the possibility of thinner NDS spokes too. They stretch more to get up to tension, which means they can take a bigger hit before going slack. Either way though, you'll be looking at a very durable wheel if it's built right (see psimet for details).
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Old 05-27-10, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I typically don't put anyone on a 24 spoke wheel on the rear unless their riding weight is less than 160, it's a deep section and strong rim, or it a race only application.

Higher spoke count will equate to a stronger wheel all other factors being held the same.

Wheel build quality has a huge impact on wheel durability, but you can't polish a turd.

Using a 24h for 230lbs is equivalent to bringing a knife to a gunfight. It could be a helluva knife but you're still going to get shot.
+1

Don't worry about the wheel weight. It doesn't make much difference at all. I've been winning races for a few years on the same 32h 3x rear wheel.

If you don't go for a deep rim (Kin Lin XR-300 is my fav), then at least get an off-center spoke line. My rear is a Velocity Aerohead OC that I built very carefully. 2.5 years later, the only time it's needed a spoke wrench is when a stick tossed in there and broke a spoke 9 months ago -- replaced spoke and it's perfect since then.

With a centered deep-v style rim, I'd consider the possibility of thinner NDS spokes too. They stretch more to get up to tension, which means they can take a bigger hit before going slack. Either way though, you'll be looking at a very durable wheel if it's built right (see psimet for details).
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Old 05-27-10, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by glacious View Post
Being 6'2" 205lbs, and rarely putting any extra weight on the bike, I don't need wheels to hold 230lbs every day, maybe once or twice a year for light tours. I'm trying to see why many people are obsessed with spoke count being the deciding factor in a solid wheel. There seems to be two schools of thought here. 1) high spoke count is a good wheel 2) a solidly built wheel trumps anything (ie you can have a wheel with 20 spoke count, be much stronger than one with 36).

and yes, if i can have less weight where it matters most... it'd be a good thing.
If something is going to go wrong while out on the road............ 9/10 it will be the rear wheel. I also weigh about 50 lbs less than you.

A well built 32 or 36 spoke wheel will take much of the worry out of wheel failure. Having wheel problems will quickly take the fun out of your ride.
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Old 05-27-10, 02:02 PM
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Fair enough, point taken. Just trying to see where the two schools of though get their data from, so I'm not stranded somewhere (but at the same time not making it harder to get myself to the top of a hill ).

I'm looking at the Mavic Open Pros, and the CXP33's, DT brass, and probably DT comp spokes (unless I dig up the money for Revs) on a set of Ultegra (32H) hubs (maybe dura-ace for the rear). *really* hoping to keep the build under ~$400-450 and just get the full set (not dick around with just the rear). From the advice above, I'd feel a lot better on 32/32H than 20/24H like I am now.

The build above with DT comp and ultegra hubs is ~ $350, just a matter of deciding if it's worth any of the upgrades (ie dura-ace for the rear hub or different spokes).

Thanks again for all the insight, it's really appreciated. Hopefully I'll be back on the road next weekend... right now it's just trails for me.
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