Plenty of casual/recreational riders have ocassion to be going 30-40mph, and the protection from road rash is still a nice benefit of a base layer. Which was the point of the thread. Of course I would rather avoid a crash, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to at least consider things that mitigate the consequences of crashing. Base layers, helmets, shaving, seatbelts, etc.

Thanks

I get that. And if this had been a solo ride that he went down on, it wouldn't have gone 2 pages. Well, unless it was the result of running a stop sign.

This thread was pretty civil until the last page or so.

You do realize that people held back talking about this side issue in this thread way beyond when it was being discussed elsewhere. That's something right there.

It says people actually somewhat managed to stay on topic...

You know if you didn't try to impress us with your fancy camera on your bike this never would have gotten off topic...

I kid, of course.

Yes.

Anyway, this is getting out of hand. Let's get back to the effectiveness of base layers for abrasion protection.

Did you see it the first time you watched the clip? I didn't. I watched it again. Didn't. The third time I realized where the "leadout guy" was before he got obscured by some of the other riders, and there's no indication that he's going literally 20 or so mph slower than the group. I'd have guessed he was going 30ish (based on the group going 40ish) when I finally spotted him coming back to the group.

I understand that the camera doesn't capture everything. When, in my Naugatuck crit clip, I look back and literally look into the racer's eyes behind me just before the bell lap, the helmet cam I'm wearing only sees the side of the racer next to me. The camera can't capture everything. Even if the camera is pointing in one direction, it doesn't mean the rider is looking the same way. It's impossible to say that umd was doing one thing or another based on the clip - it's only possible to say that his handlebars didn't move much (so he wasn't doing much out of the saddle stuff - he was just sitting and spinning).

Sprinting at 40 mph for 30th place may not be that smart, on a group ride especially.

But simply following wheels on a group ride at 40 mph, that's normal; in fact, it's usually necessary to avoid getting dropped. Gaps grow rapidly when riding at a fast clip - if you get gapped off during a sprint, it's a real bear to get back on, especially with the caliber of riders in this particular ride. There's always "after the sprint" bit of riding, and a lot of times that's a very tough part of a ride, perhaps tougher than the sprint itself. Most of the times I've gotten dropped at Gimbles I got dropped shortly after the first sprint, when I couldn't hang on for the few minutes after the sprint (and this on the short ride). I use a number of tactics to avoid getting dropped, especially if I'm not sprinting. The first tactic is to be as far forward as possible in the group, to buy me "drift back" room as the pace rockets back up (and my pace doesn't). For me, surfing the front end of a group ride is pretty normal.

It's one thing to criticize a rider's actions. That's fine. But it's another thing to make assumptions about motivation, intent, etc, then to base your arguments on those assumptions. Unless umd made a reference to trying to film a particular thing in some other thread/post/site, he's made no reference to trying to get good footage. As a helmet cam person you know that footage comes to you. And just like taking pictures, the more footage you get, the more likely it is that you capture an interesting moment. I, too, wear a helmet cam virtually every time I ride the bike outside. I've captured a lot of interesting things - snake on the course, cars rolling through very red lights (like a few seconds red, not just "barely" red), cars flying through stop signs or no turn on red turns. I've captured a near miss by a truck (less than an inch to my teammate). I didn't go looking for this footage, it just occurred.

Finally, one of the ways to discredit one's position is to issue personal attacks - name calling and the like. It doesn't add to an argument, it doesn't present facts. But it isolates the two sides because the discussion veers from objective matter to subjective/personal stuff.

Ultimately, though, I'm blaming umd, for posting a "base layer as it relates to road rash" topic in the Road forum. Because although road rash is something many road riders experience, they don't want to know about it until it happens. Then we can post our Tegaderm links. But until then, no one wants to know. Road rash is a badge of honor, not an inconvenience. So it's all your fault, umd

cdr

I posted above somewhere that the other guy was also to blame. I have no pro race experience but I would never lead a fellow rider into danger, not even a rider I did not like!

Yes, we can be friends, just don't buy me a powermeter for my birthday cause I don't want it!

Very true. But like I said, here the buddy system encourages one's bahavior and not the other's. Take a look back, the "zip it" comment IMO is arrogant and rude but yet the little buddies only want to see that I attacked. I'm cool, but I do respond when duty calls.

Where is that? All I saw you saying was that you agreed with Erik, and you saw his point that I should have seen the slower rider. Pretty much any credibility you may have had went out the window when you said "there is one on the right too, the group catches him right before the guy in the center. I'd taken that as a sign", which was completely incorrect.

Well-written as usual, cdr.

It was later and I did metnion that I was incorrect about the guy on the right as soon as you mentioned it. post #175

I do think you caused the crash due to the fact you didn't see the slower rider. The guys ahead of you should have called out the rider IMO, but who really cares, you crashed! Like passing on the left, same principle , it's a courtesy call. That's my opinion, not a pro rider's.

Since I assume you are referring to me as the "little buddy" I don't care if you get attacked or not. I'm just disagreeing with you on attacking the intent of a friend of mine when you have no evidence to support what you're saying. I also find it humorous you keep comparing your "fun rides" to what we do, as if this type of group riding isn't "fun" for riders like umd and myself and everyone else involved. We all suit up and ride for the same reasons, we just go about it differently and take different levels of risk. I'm stoked on anyone who is on a bike, getting people stoked on bikes is what I do for a living. If you think he caused the crash, that's fine, I respect your right to your opinion; but I'll come to support a friend when someone is saying he put people in danger for the sake of vanity.

I have several large tattoos I'd like to preserve. Anything to help prevent their demise. I had never considered base layers before because I figured going down hard was going to get through any amount of cycling clothing I was wearing, save maybe the dreaded late January commute. The images in the initial post made me go

The edges of my abrasions (hip and shoulder) are distinct lines where the base layer started. I just threw it in the wash and looked at it more carefully, there were a few small tears and a lot of scuffing that would have been skin...

Oh don't flatter yourself. I say "fun" because of all the idiotic remarks I've heard from racers. The "if you've never pinned on a number, you've never really done any cycling". My point of fun was to show myself as a recreational cylcist. Racing, sure it's fun! I enjoy competition if you don't know. But I've been involved in several sports and competition, not just cycling.

I know some really good riders that will shake your hand if you're on a HUffy, but others that think too much of themselves because the payed $5 for a license. ( I really don't care about fees but some snobass will name the price)

I have nothing agains racers/racing, only the dumasses who think they are are the sheot cause they've raced. There are plenty of other sports in which I have competed and cyclists are not the best athletes as many will claim (maybe endurancewise sportwise) overall but to many think too much of themselves. I just think it's funny that because a 140 lb rider can beat me up a 10,000 ft climb, he might think he's stronger!

This is one sport that has shown the biggest ration of a-holes compared to others. I've never met a ball player, weighlifter that has said, dude if you've never competed in a race, you aint sheot!

Some of us come here to read about cycling, gather info about parts, rides etc, not criticizm for not using a powermeter or wearing the right color jersey by the pros.

Have toadd, liekmetnioned, I know alot of racers that stop by and are supercool dudes. They tell race stories and I listen in awe. But when I mention riding GMR, never do they "dude, you're too fat to climb like all this forum BS! Most are very encouraign and many have never been up GMR themselves. So to visit this forum and read all the snob BS is sickening really.

I don't get it, people come her to act like pros when they aren't! You can ask any of the riders I know and met, I talk and say the exact same things I post here. I don't insult people but if I'm insulted or someone makes a rude arrogant comment, I don't hold back. Not an internet tough guy but I don't insult people online like so many other wannabe snobs here, unless Ii am atacked first.

You, I don't know you and neve have you said anything rude to me, so I have no problem. More than I can say for others. If you want to ge rude, I have no problem either, but I don't think you do, not your personality.

This is getting way off topic, but when have me or Nick ever said or done any of thos things?

I added above after I pushed the post button. I did some clarification as it seemd directed at him which it wasn't.

Looks like a climber!

I'm thinking you should read post #6 is the MUP Victory Salute thread again before you rail too much about arrogant cyclists...

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...It-was-awesome

Enough of this fault nonsense. I'm calling BS on the 40mph claim. ;-)

Has sick seen this?

Mr Beanz, I have no dog in this particular fight, but most of your posts here seem more motivated by dislike of so-called bike snobs than by much to do with the subject in hand. And for the record, as a relative newcomer I haven't found either umd or others to be much guilty of the behaviours that seem to offend you. He clearly doesn't suffer fools, but hey - fools are fools. And he is often helpful to newbs in this forum and the training forum, as far as I can see. Not that he needs me to defend him.

As far as the crash is concerned, having watched it several times I don't believe I would have anticipated the slower rider materialising in front of me, for what little that's worth. And It isn't always easy to bale out safely when in a fast moving group, it can be safer to go with the flow.

And (finally) back on topic, base layers are a good idea for this and other reasons. Personally I'm a natural fibres man. Microlight merino wool is the new polyester.