That's great, but I've ridden and raced with umd, I've never seen him ride like an ass or put anyone in danger for the sake of some sort of vanity. I'm sure you're a fine bike handler but I don't think you're in a position to call him a cry baby.

The person that you ran into was visible to you for at least 11 seconds out of the 47. From 11-16, 28-33, and at 41. It appears that you are not looking up the road as your camera does. You can say what you want. In each chunk of time that he is visible to the camera, he is closer. When the guy in green cuts in front of you, you are sticking right with him. It seems fairly clear to me that you guys ride blind as if nothing is going to happen.

I don't need to parrot anybody's opinion but my own. I was laughing while reading your youtube responses way before I posted in this thread, just silliness. I form my own opinions, whether or not my little buddies back me up on the forum when I post them.

My common sense would have told me that when the dudes started getting unorganized and passing on the left in chaos, I would have said this is not going well. But you stayed there for a reason, in a sit that you know was not good. I'm not sure why you think it takes more than half a brain and a powermeter to see a scray situation in the brewing. Too bad your powermeter doesn't have a gps type system to warn you when to backout!

Like I said, I answer rude with rude. You're in no postion to control my thoughts. But thanks, this does mean alot from a person that would go distract a rider while running on the side of the road in my underwear during a race. Yes, they do it in the tour but it aint that cute or the officals/motocycles wouldn't try to keep them away from the riders.

This video is as close as I've ever been to a high speed cluster you-know-what. That being said, the vibe developing in this thread is just plain weird, guys, even for this forum.

And you think he should have bailed how?

Let's see, you want to bring up the fact that I'm not a pro level racer such as yourself and tell me to zip it, well if you talked to my Mama that way.....................

Seems to me I posted my opinion and you can't handle it. So you want to think that I need to form my opinions off of a pro because he's a pro? Haha, no, I watched the video berore I read the comments. Sorry if you don't believe it or that I am not able to form my own opinions.

Like any other experienced professional racer that removes themselves from harm's way.

Really? You have someone that races that posts a video of himself crashing while participating in an event where people are being foolish in a multitude of ways and then has the nerve to say that we don't know what we are talking about because we haven't done it.

And, this thread is posted in the 41, a forum that isn't about racing, where the majority of people won't be crashing at those speeds, so therefor don't need to concern themselves with this aspect of a base layer.

My god. Enough with the jack assery. This is moronic even for this forum.

Just let it go man....

Last time I checked they were my swim trunks.

You know what, I'm not even going to keep on with this.

It's just amazing that everyone else is stupid and inexperienced but you. Let's see, if you look at average, it's stupid cause it means nothing. But looking at a pwoermeter is eveything. If you look at distance, it's stupid cause you must look at time in the saddle. Riders can't even post in the forum without your criticizm that really means nothing as a midpack racer. I choose not to race and ride for fun, is that stupid? NO.

Is sprinting at 40 mph blind for a 30th place stupid? Yes, but if someone criticizes you, you fall to pieces! It aint rocket science, do I need to race with a powermeter to ride my bike safely? no!

From a dude poking his nose in ?

Really. Precisely why I'm not commenting on the wreck, just observing. I've never ridden with a group. I suspect that if I crashed solo on my commute, the same principle would apply (the base layer part).

Hm? I would wager that a majority of cyclists in this forum have been between 30 and 40 mph more than once, and that this example of base layer[ing] helps someone who may have not considered it. Not sure why you feel the need to be so Roger Ebert about it.

Reading between the lines this translates to:

"I don't have any idea what I'm talking about."

About what I expected.

OK little buddy! you're the pro! Show us your powermeter!

I love it when internet tough guys degrade into teenage girl drama. This is just like watching a soap opera- you can't tell if the characters are motivated by jealousy, ego, or ignorance.

UMD, thanks for the thread and video. I agree with your sentiment- no use pointing fingers at this point.

The first two times he was visibile he was way up the road. The last time he was visible it was not obvious it was the same rider as earlier and from my perspective I couldn't tell his relative speed. When the guy in green cuts in front of me, if I hadn't moved over he would have run into me right then.

I wasn't sprinting, the sprint was up the road. The safest thing to do is usually to just follow everyone else. Obviously this did not end well.

The point is that many people made many bad decisions and they accumulated to a crash. To say I was the only one with any fault in that situation has no basis in reality. All the people who were there have a different interpretation than those who are watching it on video after the fact.

Relevance?

I disagree that umd's posts are always critical, however, I consider a post like the one you mention to be positive criticism.

No one person can be blamed for the crash. It was simply an unfortunate chain of events. Expecting umd to see the rider under those circumstances is unreasonable, considering it took me a rewinds to finally spot him (before the rider in front of umd moved).

Among all the other inane things you've posted, you missed the part where umd repeatedly stated he wasn't trying to sprint for 30th place. I believe he said he was trying to stay out of it because he expected it could be a cluster****.

I'm not trying to take sides since I've never been in a situation close to that. But it would help your argument if you didn't make things up.

My point is that how it is presented doens't represent where it is presented. Sure many if not most people in here have gone 30-40 mph. Most of us in here that have are not going to wipe out at those speeds. Why? We don't put ourselves at harms way at those speeds. Sure it can happen. But I'm thinking the majority of people in the 41 would rather avoid crash situations than suit up for them. That simply isn't the case with those that race. So of course we are going to look at it differently.

It's really hard to avoid something during a sprint, because moving speed might be a bit faster than reaction speed. Even if one tried to avoid a crash after a sprint, it's still pretty hard to navigate away, especially if someone is on your sides, and most reactions will be a swerve to the left or right which can contribute to a loss of control.

This video might explain more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfs55TB9srg

Tulex, I'll agree with you to a point, but I took away from this thread what umd intended. Base layers can help minimize the road rash. Gravity doesn't care if you are riding in a group or hit a pothole descending a hill on a commute. Often times an accident is just that, and it cannot be planned for except in hindsight. Live and learn, or in this case, ride and learn