jdon

Severe logic fail.

cfblakeman

Everybody looking for an excuse for Specialized seems to be distracted by comparing a very high end bike to a very high end car. So let's call my Tarmac SL2 Pro, which is easily in the upper 20% price range for off the rack bikes a Yugo going forward. OK, it's a Yugo.

A Yugo shouldn't be in the shop from day one, have incorrect build instructions from the manufacturer or have most major components fail right out of the box. And the owner of the Yugo shouldn't have to pile up bills and time trying to fix it while the Yugo manufacturer denies until it's too obvious to do so and then grudgingly fixes it (while charging me).

I'm not sure Specialized wants to be equated with a Yugo, but if that helps you guys stay on topic, I'm in.

umd

Yugo is a worse analogy. Something like a BMW is fine. A Rolls is excessive.

tombailey

Why not just stop with the meaningless car comparisons?

You said Spec admitted to several of these problems. Do you have that documented? If so I would write (that's one of those old fashioned letter thingies) to the most senior person you can get an address for, outline all the issues with the frame (not the components), and ask for it to be resolved.

echotraveler

Seems like this bike was assembled carelessly....

OP have you disassembled your bike? i would totally sell off your headache in parts! sell ALL components and then buy a new group....sram force perhaps?

its pretty strange that you let lbs replace a s-works seat stem for a generic, when carbon assembly paste is such a simple fix....sounds like you've had very very very bad luck with mechanics! I've heard a couple of nightmare storys about bad mechanics in my area, thats why i LOVE my GREAT mechanic!

Good luck bro. hope you can get rid of this and beggin a new bicycle experience, that you actually enjoy...

if you feel like you've been conned, make a complaint to the BBB (better business bureau), they will call specialized, and both lbs's.

cfblakeman

I don't have much in writing, but I will be sending a letter. They did send new bottom bracket build instructions to all their dealers - that's in writing, and they finally, after much wrangling and year of grinding carbon, sent me new chain rings - the LBS said they admitted they had a problem and multiple Spec Customer Service reps admitted the same thing verbally, and it's apparently widely known, so maybe that will do.

The reason I'm posting is that I shouldn't have been put in a position where I have to go around Specialized Customer Service to get this resolved. They should have a policy of standing behind these issues much better that keeps me from having to find some senior exec to fix their customer service for them.

dbf73

wrong - the dealer deals with Porsche who in turn deals with Brembo (20+ yr Porsche owner). In a car warranty you deal with the car mfg with the fairly universal exception of tires where the car warranty explicitly states that the warranty is that of the tire mfg.

cfblakeman

The rings were defective, not an assembly issue. The bottom bracket build was done by all LBS's on this bike per the written instructions sent by Specialized with each bike, which they eventually rescinded and sent out new ones, resulting in my rebuilt BB (which I was charged for). That's not careless assembly - that's following the manufacturer instructions.

The seatpost had carbon paste on it - the s-works bracket was simply defective.

And the shifter allows the small bit of wire to fall down inside and FUBAR a perfectly good shifter (Shimano wouldn't admit it was defective, then sent me a new one without having seen the old one yet. hmm...).

So no assembly issues here that I can see.

tombailey

But it sounds like the issue is the shop and/or the shop's communication with Specialized.

cfblakeman

Another off-topic comment by umd. Can't seem to say anything that will help him join the mainstream of this conversation.

tagaproject6

Why would Shimano have to admit that it is defective? With the amount of shifters they sell and make is there any evidence that all the shifters they have made and sold are defective? Sending you a new one (which I hope is not the same exact model, which you claim are defective) is just them honoring their warranty and/or good customer service. If you really believe they are defective, take the leap, and go SRAM. Sell the Shimano group to finance the SRAM.

cfblakeman

Sort of. A big part of this problem is I bought the bike 2,000 miles from where I live now and most LBS's have this anachronistic view of customer service where they have to remind you every time you sneeze that they can't be helpful because the bike wasn't bought there. (I wonder when one of them will realize that people who bought one $6,500 bike 2,000 miles away might buy another one?)

So if I had bought the bike where I live now I'm guessing the bike shop would have figured out how to make all this go away. That doesn't excuse Specialized, but in fact exposes them. They clearly are not used to having to deal with involved customer service issues and expect the local shop to do it. They pushed back hard and often in my conversations with them saying "if you had a good relationship with your local LBS, etc.", implying I'm a schmuck who can't make friends with my mechanic, when in fact the LBS is just like most of them that exude the "not purchased here" mentality.

And the reason the LBS isn't willing to step up (besides that the bike was bought 2,000 miles away), is that ALL of these problems are truly Specialized's issues - NONE of them are assembly issues, which would reside with the LBS. The defective rings, the bad BB (written) assembly instructions from Spec, the defective seatpost, etc. - all are problems with the bike manufacturer, not the LBS. But again, most LBS's would cover for the manufacturer for somebody regularly dropping $6,500 for bikes - if they got the $6,500. When they don't, Specialized's Customer Service has been exposed for what it is - unwilling to deal with a true lemon.

And no, I haven't called the original shop 2,000 miles away to have them deal with it. The guy retired this year. The perfect storm, right?

cfblakeman

No evidence at all. Just three different LBS's saying it happens all the time and should be easy to engineer so it wouldn't. And Shimano is sending one for free so there must be something there. If I were Shimano I certainly wouldn't put it in writing that they never bothered to think about what happens when a cable breaks and how you get the little bit of wire out. No company admits to such obvious design flaws - it would crater the company to have to recall them all. But there sure are a lot or mechanics saying "Oh, yeah, I see that problem all the time. Sucks to have to buy a brand new shifter when the old one is perfect except for that bit of wire nobody can get out."

However, the real issue here isn't the shifter but the Specialized rings, bottom bracket build, and seatpost bracket - all defective right out of the gate - all causing cost, time lost and riding problems for a year before being fixed, and resulting in a chewed up carbon frame at the end of it. The shifter is just icing on the cake.

WCroadie

That is complete and utter horse dung, comical really. If my LBS told me DA requires more maintenance to stay tuned I would leave and never come back.

tagaproject6

How much money have you spent in this debacle?

BigSean

This has been a known issue, mine also slipped. It is a simple fix by using the carbon paste as you mentioned earlier.

echotraveler

im not very sure thats true, manufacturers instruction? i guess they do send in specs and instructions, but IMO a good mechanic can assemble one of this high end bikes, or any kind of bike without them, Mechanics do this every day, this aint rocket science either... anyway bro, good luck, hope you can find a resolve on this matter....

stonecrd

Seems like a lot of wacky perspective going on in this thread:

1. Bad BB, original LBS's problem they built it wrong maybe Specialized has some part in this if they sent wrong instructions
2. Bad Rings seems clearly to be a Specialized issue
3. Seat post is probably bad assembly not using carbon paste, possibly a bad clamp no big deal
4. DA Shifter either poor maintenance or bad cable certainly not a Shimano or Specialized issue and I've never heard of any Shimano shifter being defective and eating cables

Now in regards to the LBS why should they eat the labor? They have to do the work, they didn't do the original work and if Specialized isn't picking up the tab they have to make money and stay in business. Now it does sound like you are paying them for maintenance so it is probably in their best interest to help out to keep you coming back but maybe you have an attitude with them and they don't really care, who knows.

In any event like you say you got a lemon it happens with all products, hopefully Specialized and the LBS will make it work for you.

mike868y

What exactly was wrong with your bb? It's not like assembling a bb is very hard.

If you rode the bike for a year with it dropping the chain every ride, that is your own stupidity for not doing something about a problem you clearly were aware of.

The sworks bracket is not defective. Many rides who are heavier and ride more than you use that bracket without issue.

Breaking cables is not a design flaw it is a fact of life. Are you going to convince us that a flat tire is a design flaw too?

Stop complaining and start thinking

BigSean

The cable problem is on your shop. Dont know what they did for $175. I dont pay that much for a complete tune up with all cables replaced.(Id never allow someone to change just one cable and not the other) Sounds to me like the shop is a problem. The chain rings you should have been informed about. I hate when a company knows about a problem but doesnt address it. I had those same chain rings on my Tarmac Pro.(mine was not the SL2, but same build). I sold the bike, and kept the expert. Never liked it for some reason.I battled with Specialized about the Q factor on the cranks. They admitted it was narrower. I asked why they dont notify the customer prior to purchase. Any way, it caused me hip problems. They suggested I have a custom set of pedals made to offset it. I decided the better option was to sell it and buy something else. Now while I agree your frame should be taken care of, its really on the shop you purchased it from assuming they are the ones that set it up.

BigSean

While I agree with the rest of what you said you are way off here. He has stated he took the bike to the shop time after time to get this issue fixed.

CCrew

First off, I didn't mention the rest of the parts. Second, the cable isn't Specialized's fault. It's a wear item just like a clutch disc or brake pads since we're using the car analogy around here.

Your issue on the cable should be with the shop that blessed it and Specialized isn't in the mix. I don't own DA components, and even I know that a year of use is tops on DA cables. I also know like another person stated that DA is finicky. Since you paid for the maintenance, you should have told them to replace the cables as a timed maintenance event.

The fact that you didn't was a fail. And whining about having to pay for your lack of foresight is an additional fail. That's not a personal attack, that's just fact.

With any high performance item a higher level of maintenance is expected. BMW since everyone is using car examples, I guarantee that a M6 will require more oversight than your generic version. You can carry that into all aspects of performance. It's just a fact. And the fact is you bought at the top of the race curve and then want to blame everyone but yourself for all the issues. You have not taken ownership for a single thing.

Does Specialized have culpability? By the sounds of it yes. But they're not here complaining to a bunch of people that don't have any control over whether your bike gets fixed. You don't like contradictory views to your own you shouldn't have posted in an internet forum. Yet another fail.

Wanderer

I think that many are missing the point here.

Mainly, that there were several defective problems with the machine, which Specialized clearly warranted.

Even the associated damage, was caused by the defective machine.

Specialized really should step up, on the problem; and replace the machine with one that isn't defective (or damaged) - and can be used for the purpose it was sold.

It really is that simple.

DinoShepherd

Really? Why?

-Z

cfblakeman

All told not much. Probably $200 or so, maybe more. The bigger rub is the time I've wasted, the time I've been without a bike (I'm missing a great ride this weekend that I paid $100 for - I guess we should add that to the total cost), and the aggravation of having to fight with Specialized to get them to man up on this. And by far the biggest rub is I'm left with a bike with a chewed up carbon frame that I'm not even sure is safe anymore. I just finished a letter to Specialized requesting that they pay to have it independently assessed for safety and asking them to be creative in figuring out how they would like to see this portrayed going forward - with a good ending or a bad one - it's in their hands.