But then it would be just like the MTB sub-forum.

Folks, just don't be emotionally involved in watching Pro races. Treat it like NFL and it is all good. Just watch it for the cool bikes, nice wheels and podium girls...

It's just entertainment. It has about as much relevance to our daily riding and routine as Tea Party Witchcraft.

Let's assume for a moment that Contador is totally clean and that this was all just a big accident. Let's also assume that Astana has been working very hard to ensure that their team is squeaky clean and beyond reproach. Moreover, let's also assume that all the other teams in the TdF have been making a serious and honest effort to be clean. Finally, let's assume they have all been on this clean campaign for the last few years. Remember, that is the official policy that everyone of those teams and riders likes to state.

Now, if there really is this much institutionalized honesty and accountability, shouldn't people be coming out of the woodwork to assert that AC doesn't use PEDs? I would expect teammates, past and present, to emphatically support him in the media. Same thing for team directors and anyone else with recent experience in the TdF. We should hear stories by people on other teams - people with no direct stake in AC - vouching for his character, explaining how they keep their own teams clean and how they know that Astana does the same thing, etc. In short, I would expect to see more outrage and frustration by those who know and believe the sport and AC to be clean. I mean, wouldn't you at least expect Armstrong to say that even though he never really got along with AC on a personal level, that he still respects him as a rider and always knew him to be clean?

Instead, it seems like people don't want to invite any attention on themselves. I know this proves nothing, but to me it just seems like a situation like in a crappy neighborhood with a lot of violence and when the cops show up, no one wants to get involved.

Correct. I forgot how much entertainment value this kind of stuff add to BF

incorrect

Can we get an instant replay here?

ummm

if the euro pros are doing it
what do you suppose the domestic pros who want to go to the show are doing?
the cat 1s looking for a pro deal?
the cat1 hot shot/ex pro masters?
2s looking to get to the next level?
jon chodroff as a 3?

once the playing field tilts all bets are off.

Playing this out further,

It's very easy for Masters racers to dope with Testosterone, and HGH, (and perhaps other things) with legal prescriptions.

With no testing, the only deterrent to such use is personal ethics, potential health concerns, and cost.

So does a culture of doping starting at the top professional level, and trickling down, errode the sense that it's ethically wrong to dope, and make it more likely the guy next to you in the Masters 45 race is using PED's?

Be careful; you don't want someone to put a spell on you.

Are you not a 2 or 1?


Are you saying...Would you?

my record isn't that good

And since there's virtually no testing in lower categories, wealthy, connected masters (and anyone else) can get away with it a lot more easily than the pros.

The anti aging clinics advertise on the radio all the time down here. I'm pretty sure they'll diagnose you with "low T" and give you prescription for Testosterone, and HGH on request.

EPO might take a little more work.

I've asked my wife to write it for me, but she's refused.

Well said. I think it speaks about the reality in the grand tour cycling world. It would be unfair to judge a single person that way, because as you said it proves nothing.

The flip side of that is that if you are going to dope in whatever way, it would be very prudent to make sure that as few people as possible were aware of it or ever saw it happen, so you didn't have too many potential Landises floating around out there. But that same attitude would also make it hard to say whether anyone did or didn't dope if you weren't involved directly in it.

I agree in theory, but my guess is that even if there are guys on a team that don't participate in the doping (again, assuming there is indeed doping that is orchestrated in part by the team leadership), that they must know about it in one form or another. Alternatively, if the team really is clean and one guy tries to dope on his own with his own helpers, it stands to reason that others would sooner or later realize what he's up to.

Well, look at it this way: steroids were in use in Division III college football back in the early-to-mid 1980s, and were rampant in higher levels. Think, "Son, if you want to play here at (insert name of major well-known "squeaky-clean" instutition), you will have to take steroids." Guys I went to high school with were TOLD EXACTLY THAT when they were being recruited. And they weren't NFL prospects by any stretch of the imagination, and all the steroids in the world couldn't make them NFL prospects (Let's put it this way - you KNEW when you ran into someone who was even a potential fringe NFL prospect...)

Twenty-five years ago, that's what is was like for athletes with very little personal financial incentive to use PEDs. And they did it anyway.

Mostly because of personal competitive reasons, I'd guess.

Yeah, there was no testing at all back then. But there also wasn't any designer drugs that did things like metabolize into things that break down into water and CO2.

Horse drugs? WTF? Contador probably got busted because he was too cheap to pay for the real stuff. Just like Barry Bonds - too cheap to pay for the stuff no test can detect (and stupid enough to associate with a, err, chemist who was bound and determined to rub people's noses in what he did instead of silently staying off the radar screens...)

IMO PED use is rampant in all professional sports. Look at guys getting busted for steroids in European basketball leagues. But the NBA is like the NFL - you pretty much have to be caught raping the dead body of the league commissioner before you get busted for drug use.

It's entirely possible that Contador weighs the same as a duck.

Such as? What were they taking?


A doc that I goes to my gym said if I ever felt the need to seek out "anti-aging" medication that he would be more then happy to prescribe HGH or Test. He said they also give prescriptions for HGH as a weight loss drug because the primary long term side effect is body fat depletion.

Any doctor who discusses prescriptions for hGH and testosterone in a gym deserves what he has coming to him. An investigation by the DEA, and possible loss of license. There are certainly lots of docs who do this, but they are setting themselves up for prosecution just like the recipients are.

Exactly

Oh...I see... so by vigorous antidoping protocols we shall have drug free high schools and middle schools? I feel so relieved.

You need to ride your bike and chill

You forgot Uncle Pcad vying for that coveted Cat 3 upgrade.