Tire Exceptions to Expectations
11-28-12 | 06:34 AM
#26
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Joined: May 2011
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From: Northern California
Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX
I'm noticing that high price does not always buy an all-around better tire. Buyers need to select from menu of features and benefits. light weight, supple construction, flat protection, low rolling resistance, good all-weather traction, good aerodynamics, moderate price: Pick your priorities but don't expect to have all positive features in one tire.
I'm finding that moderate levels of performance and price provide the best value and overall performance. I avoid pure ultra light tires, ultra flat resistant tires, ultra durable tires, ultra supple tires, etc... Moderation and balance are ideal for non-race usage.
Reading reviews at Wiggle and other online locations provide a great amount of user feedback. It might not help anyone buy the perfect tire, but it can help anyone avoid the wrong tire.
Right now my favorite tire is the Vittoria Voyager Hyper (AKA Randonneur Hyper). The tire is ultra smooth, fast rolling, good flat resistance, reasonable durability and ultra versatile. Now if it was available is a size that would fit my road bike, I would be all set.
I'm finding that moderate levels of performance and price provide the best value and overall performance. I avoid pure ultra light tires, ultra flat resistant tires, ultra durable tires, ultra supple tires, etc... Moderation and balance are ideal for non-race usage.
Reading reviews at Wiggle and other online locations provide a great amount of user feedback. It might not help anyone buy the perfect tire, but it can help anyone avoid the wrong tire.
Right now my favorite tire is the Vittoria Voyager Hyper (AKA Randonneur Hyper). The tire is ultra smooth, fast rolling, good flat resistance, reasonable durability and ultra versatile. Now if it was available is a size that would fit my road bike, I would be all set.
This all sounds like good advice from a very wise sage!
I will give all of your suggestions some very serious thought, as I'm convinced that everything you've stated here is completely logical. That's especially the part about matching moderate levels of performance with moderate pricing. I'm beginning to think that's the key to good tire investment.
The only clincher (no pun intended) here is that, I suspect that Continental's Gatorskin just might be revolutionizing the entire bicycle tire industry. Those tires are beginning to outlast, even the best of most premium tires. Right now, their popularity soars as their price I'm sure, will soon follow.
Last edited by SlimRider; 11-28-12 at 10:32 AM.
11-28-12 | 06:47 AM
#27
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From: Northern California
Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX
11-28-12 | 07:10 AM
#28
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From: Northern California
Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX
Carbonfiberboy says:
I would tend to agree with you here....That would be my initial suspicion, too!
Hmmm...This too sounds fairly logical. However, the rolling resistance correlation with flats is one I'd have to further contemplate.
Well, the INTERNET does have somewhat of a nefarious reputation. But do we really have to publicize this fact while using it? 
I must admit, I share your good luck with the GP4000's, myself! I will also agree with your assessment concerning the "sweet spot" experienced by every user.
I'm certain that there's some merit in this task. However, it sounds far too tedious of an occupation for me!
Again. Sounds a bit too tedious for me. Usually, by the time I'm done cycling, I'm bushed. Once I've rejuvenated, I become too preoccupied with other more pressing affairs of the day. To take time out to impregnate my tires with super glue and polyurethane, sounds just a bit too time-consuming for me.
However, if you have time to do it, I can see how eventually, it could work to your tire advantage...
We had a thread on tubes here not long ago. My opinion and IIRC the general opinion of the thread was that tubes don't puncture, tires do. Though IME crappy tubes will sometimes split on a seam or the valve will pull out, but that's rare.
IMO the worse the traction of the tire the longer it will wear and the less it will flat. The heavier the carcass, the higher the rolling resistance and the less likely it is to flat. All tires are a compromise. You can't get something for nothing.
Internet reviews are worthless, including the ones in this thread. They're just anecdotes. I've gone months with no flats and then had 3 in a week, same model tire. If you're down to the cords and it flats, well then.
Every user will have their own "sweet spot," the combination of features that suits them best. I've had good luck (!) with GP4000s, Ultremo DD, and Maxxis Re-Fuse.
You'll have fewer flats if, after every ride, you deflate the tires and go around them, squeezing with your thumbs, and picking out the stones and glass bits with the point of a knife. That's true. But don't dig out the casing threads. They're usually white.
I've also had good luck reinflating the tires then going around and forcing black polyurethane caulk into the little cuts that accumulate with the point of a knife. That keeps future glass and stones from lodging in them. I've tried using super glue for that, which works even better, but I think after a time the super glue acts like glass bits and causes flats.
However, if you have time to do it, I can see how eventually, it could work to your tire advantage...
Last edited by SlimRider; 11-28-12 at 10:30 AM.
11-28-12 | 08:50 AM
#29
Have bike, will travel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,286
Likes: 317
From: Lake Geneva, WI
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Hey there Barrettscv!
This all sounds like good advice from a very wise sage!
I will give all of your suggestions some very serious thought, as I'm convinced that everything you've stated here is completely logical. That's especially the part about matching moderate levels performance with moderate pricing. I'm beginning to think that's the key to good tire investment.
The only clincher (no pun intended) here is that, I suspect that Continental's Gatorskin just might be revolutionizing the entire bicycle tire industry. Those tires are beginning to outlast, even the best of most premium tires. Right now, their popularity soars as their price I'm sure, will soon follow.
This all sounds like good advice from a very wise sage!
I will give all of your suggestions some very serious thought, as I'm convinced that everything you've stated here is completely logical. That's especially the part about matching moderate levels performance with moderate pricing. I'm beginning to think that's the key to good tire investment.
The only clincher (no pun intended) here is that, I suspect that Continental's Gatorskin just might be revolutionizing the entire bicycle tire industry. Those tires are beginning to outlast, even the best of most premium tires. Right now, their popularity soars as their price I'm sure, will soon follow.
Great topic.
Continental's Gatorskin is a great success on many levels. Most users buy the tire hoping to reduce flats and become loyal users based on other factors. Gatorskins are better than average in reducing flats, but are not the most flat resistant tire sold. Tires like the Schwalbe Marathon are far more flat resistant, but are also less supple, heavier and don't roll as well.
I would add that the Gatorskin is only slightly more flat resistant than other Continental tires of the same size. Some of the flat resistants comes from a harder compound that does not perform especially well in wet conditions.
What the Gatorskin does provide is above average levels of performance all-around. Gatorskins roll well enough to feel fast. They shield against objects that would flat a lesser tire. They are not extra heavy. They provide moderate levels of ride comfort. They are durable. Continental sells a ton of them at a healthy price that users are willing to pay.
I've switched from Continental's Gatorskin to other Continental tires and other brands. I'm willing to sacrifice some durability for a little more traction and a more supple ride. But I agree that the Continental Gatorskin is an exceptional all-around tire.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 11-28-12 at 09:18 AM.
11-28-12 | 09:09 AM
#30
moth -----> flame
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,919
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 18 Tarmac SL6, 11 CAAD 10-4, 07 Specialized Roubaix Comp, 98 Peugeot Horizon
My highly unscientific viewpoint is that this seems to be a trade off between durability and traction. The harder the tire, the longer it takes to thin out the tread, and the more "puncture resistant" that tire is. The thing is, that the harder compound tires tend to give poorer traction, which is something I'm much more concerned about when descending or riding in the wet. I've ridden pro3's for several years and have had pretty good experiences, some flats, but not a lot. I do think that they tend to attract small sharps (little bits of glass etc), especially in the wet that exacerbates problems if you don't inspect your tires. I routinely go over my tires every few days with a flashlight and a small screwdriver to dig out small sharp rocks, glass fragments that could become a puncture if they work their way through the cords. That and proper inflation pressures seem key.
Having said that, I've preferred riding Michelin Krylions on the winter in NorCal as they do have a longer lifespan and seem almost as grippy as pro 3's. All of this is now moot of course, as Michelin has switched things up with the Pro4. I have a set of Pro4 endurance tires (the Krylion replacement) in my garage ready for winter duty as soon as I can wear down my current Krylions.
Having said that, I've preferred riding Michelin Krylions on the winter in NorCal as they do have a longer lifespan and seem almost as grippy as pro 3's. All of this is now moot of course, as Michelin has switched things up with the Pro4. I have a set of Pro4 endurance tires (the Krylion replacement) in my garage ready for winter duty as soon as I can wear down my current Krylions.
__________________
BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
11-28-12 | 09:14 AM
#31
The Weird Beard
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,554
Likes: 3
From: COS
Yes, incorporating flats into the durability profile of a tire is largely futile, IMHO. It's more about where you live/ride.
I have rolled Performance-K tires since getting back on the road about a decade ago. There is no need to throw my money at the crack that is known as the Continental GP4K, or a similarly priced set of rubber.
I have rolled Performance-K tires since getting back on the road about a decade ago. There is no need to throw my money at the crack that is known as the Continental GP4K, or a similarly priced set of rubber.
11-28-12 | 09:18 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: Bangkok, Thailand
Bikes: Lynskey Helix OS and R330, Parlee Z1, Anderson 953 Custom
From my last three tires that I can remember:
On my Continental GP 4000s 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode almost 2000 miles over varied terrain without any issues. I got one flat due to glass shard and rode another 1000 miles until I got a sidewall puncture due to some crushed rocks on my rear tire. So, that was it for both tires. 3000 miles.
On my Continental GP TT 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode 1000 miles over varied terrain without any issue except for some minor nicks and cuts. Then, I got a glass chard on my front wheel. I rode another 500 miles without incident but noticed the tread starting to wear thin on the rear wheel. Then, when I rode over an especially bad road with salt crystals from a salt farm, my tube got a slow leak the next day from where the tread had worn through. So, that was it for both tires. 1600 miles.
On my Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 24c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I so far have about 800 miles on them. The tread is starting to show some wear. I hope to get at least 2500 miles on this pair.
I am very anal retentive about letting air out of my tires until they are finger soft if I am going to not ride my bike for more than three days and then I pump up my tires to 95 psi front and 105 psi rear on my HED. 23mm wide rim wheels.
Mark
On my Continental GP 4000s 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode almost 2000 miles over varied terrain without any issues. I got one flat due to glass shard and rode another 1000 miles until I got a sidewall puncture due to some crushed rocks on my rear tire. So, that was it for both tires. 3000 miles.
On my Continental GP TT 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode 1000 miles over varied terrain without any issue except for some minor nicks and cuts. Then, I got a glass chard on my front wheel. I rode another 500 miles without incident but noticed the tread starting to wear thin on the rear wheel. Then, when I rode over an especially bad road with salt crystals from a salt farm, my tube got a slow leak the next day from where the tread had worn through. So, that was it for both tires. 1600 miles.
On my Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 24c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I so far have about 800 miles on them. The tread is starting to show some wear. I hope to get at least 2500 miles on this pair.
I am very anal retentive about letting air out of my tires until they are finger soft if I am going to not ride my bike for more than three days and then I pump up my tires to 95 psi front and 105 psi rear on my HED. 23mm wide rim wheels.
Mark
11-28-12 | 09:30 AM
#33
moth -----> flame
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,919
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 18 Tarmac SL6, 11 CAAD 10-4, 07 Specialized Roubaix Comp, 98 Peugeot Horizon
What are you trying to prevent by doing this?
__________________
BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
11-28-12 | 09:44 AM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 616
Likes: 2
From: Toronto
Bikes: Opus Vivace F1
Hey Slim,
Great topic.
Continental's Gatorskin is a great success on many levels. Most users buy the tire hoping to reduce flats and become loyal users based on other factors. Gatorskins are better than average in reducing flats, but are not the most flat resistant tire sold. Tires like the Schwalbe Marathon are far more flat resistant, but are also less supple, heavier and don't roll as well.
I would add that the Gatorskin is only slightly more flat resistant than other Continental tires of the same size. Some of the flat resistants comes from a harder compound that does not perform especially well in wet conditions.
What the Gatorskin does provide is above average levels of performance all-around. Gatorskins roll well enough to feel fast. They shield against objects that would flat a lesser tire. They are not extra heavy. They provide moderate levels of ride comfort. They are durable. Continental sells a ton of them at a healthy price that users are willing to pay.
I've switched from Continental's Gatorskin to other Continental tires and other brands. I'm willing to sacrifice some durability for a little more traction and a more supple ride. But I agree that the Continental Gatorskin is an exceptional all-around tire.
Great topic.
Continental's Gatorskin is a great success on many levels. Most users buy the tire hoping to reduce flats and become loyal users based on other factors. Gatorskins are better than average in reducing flats, but are not the most flat resistant tire sold. Tires like the Schwalbe Marathon are far more flat resistant, but are also less supple, heavier and don't roll as well.
I would add that the Gatorskin is only slightly more flat resistant than other Continental tires of the same size. Some of the flat resistants comes from a harder compound that does not perform especially well in wet conditions.
What the Gatorskin does provide is above average levels of performance all-around. Gatorskins roll well enough to feel fast. They shield against objects that would flat a lesser tire. They are not extra heavy. They provide moderate levels of ride comfort. They are durable. Continental sells a ton of them at a healthy price that users are willing to pay.
I've switched from Continental's Gatorskin to other Continental tires and other brands. I'm willing to sacrifice some durability for a little more traction and a more supple ride. But I agree that the Continental Gatorskin is an exceptional all-around tire.
11-28-12 | 10:27 AM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: Bangkok, Thailand
Bikes: Lynskey Helix OS and R330, Parlee Z1, Anderson 953 Custom
To stop myself from being tempted to not pump up my tires to the correct tire pressure before a ride.
I think that tires lose pressure slowly overnight and probably about 10-20 psi over two to three days then level off at 80-90 psi from 110 psi.
I think most pinch flats occur when we ride at 80 psi or less.
Mark
I think that tires lose pressure slowly overnight and probably about 10-20 psi over two to three days then level off at 80-90 psi from 110 psi.
I think most pinch flats occur when we ride at 80 psi or less.
Mark
11-28-12 | 11:30 AM
#36
Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
From: Amarillo, TX
Bikes: New- '14 Specialized Roubaix Sport, Old-'00 Specialized Allez Sport, Totaled-'12 Cannondale SuperSix 3, Cannondale mountainbike, old but cool.
I have had very good luck with some Michelin Krylions with Specialized tubes with the goo in them, (airlock?). I figure they add weight, but many times I have heard a tire start to go and seal themselves up and I have not had a catastrophic flat in a long time, until I wore out the tires recently and the tube came through it! I weigh more than I should, so the extra weight can't compare to the extra 20lbs I carry around.
I am looking for new tires for my new SuperSix and am planning on getting Michelins again, probably going to run Specialized tubes also.
Cheers!
Michael S.
I am looking for new tires for my new SuperSix and am planning on getting Michelins again, probably going to run Specialized tubes also.
Cheers!
Michael S.
11-29-12 | 12:10 AM
#37
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX
From my last three tires that I can remember:
On my Continental GP 4000s 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode almost 2000 miles over varied terrain without any issues. I got one flat due to glass shard and rode another 1000 miles until I got a sidewall puncture due to some crushed rocks on my rear tire. So, that was it for both tires. 3000 miles.
On my Continental GP TT 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode 1000 miles over varied terrain without any issue except for some minor nicks and cuts. Then, I got a glass chard on my front wheel. I rode another 500 miles without incident but noticed the tread starting to wear thin on the rear wheel. Then, when I rode over an especially bad road with salt crystals from a salt farm, my tube got a slow leak the next day from where the tread had worn through. So, that was it for both tires. 1600 miles.
On my Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 24c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I so far have about 800 miles on them. The tread is starting to show some wear. I hope to get at least 2500 miles on this pair.
I am very anal retentive about letting air out of my tires until they are finger soft if I am going to not ride my bike for more than three days and then I pump up my tires to 95 psi front and 105 psi rear on my HED. 23mm wide rim wheels.
Mark
On my Continental GP 4000s 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode almost 2000 miles over varied terrain without any issues. I got one flat due to glass shard and rode another 1000 miles until I got a sidewall puncture due to some crushed rocks on my rear tire. So, that was it for both tires. 3000 miles.
On my Continental GP TT 23c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I rode 1000 miles over varied terrain without any issue except for some minor nicks and cuts. Then, I got a glass chard on my front wheel. I rode another 500 miles without incident but noticed the tread starting to wear thin on the rear wheel. Then, when I rode over an especially bad road with salt crystals from a salt farm, my tube got a slow leak the next day from where the tread had worn through. So, that was it for both tires. 1600 miles.
On my Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 24c tires with Vittoria Superlight tubes, I so far have about 800 miles on them. The tread is starting to show some wear. I hope to get at least 2500 miles on this pair.
I am very anal retentive about letting air out of my tires until they are finger soft if I am going to not ride my bike for more than three days and then I pump up my tires to 95 psi front and 105 psi rear on my HED. 23mm wide rim wheels.
Mark
11-29-12 | 12:11 AM
#38
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX
To stop myself from being tempted to not pump up my tires to the correct tire pressure before a ride.
I think that tires lose pressure slowly overnight and probably about 10-20 psi over two to three days then level off at 80-90 psi from 110 psi.
I think most pinch flats occur when we ride at 80 psi or less.
Mark
I think that tires lose pressure slowly overnight and probably about 10-20 psi over two to three days then level off at 80-90 psi from 110 psi.
I think most pinch flats occur when we ride at 80 psi or less.
Mark
I was pleasingly shocked by your most cerebral answer!
