Hey guys, I have been having some issues with my back wheel. I have Mavic cxp33 rims laced to Dura Ace hubs. They held up to some abuse for a while, but it is time for some new wheels. I've been researching different rims and I would really like to try the H+Son SL42 rims with a machined brake track(obviously for my road bike). I like the look, the budget, somewhat aero, and the strength. I would have them built by my LBS using my Dura Ace hubs again. Problem is they are a little on the heavy side. I weigh 145-150, I live in the city and sometimes have to deal with unavoidable potholes and recessed train tracks. I need a wheel that can stay together and be reliable day after day( of course with a good builder).Don't get me wrong though, I love lightweight wheels. I was wondering how many of you guys have wheels that are built more for strength than weight savings? Was it worth it?

I have a set of H+Son Formation Faces that I use on the track. It's the same as the SL42, just without a machined side wall.

I built them 32/32 3x rear, and radial front, with a front road hub, and a rear track hub (obviously), sapim cx-rays and brass nipples, and they still come in under 1900g. That is far from light, but still much lighter than many stock wheelsets. I was shooting for a moderately aero, super stiff, and <2000g wheelset for a solid training set and a passable race wheelset in one. Easily the stiffest wheelset I've ever ridden, and they put up with a beating. I wouldn't hesitate to lace them 20/24 and use them on the road.

Oh, they also look pretty badass. H+Son does some of the best metal finishing I've seen on rims.

When you get down to it, what you really want from a bike unless you're racing is a fun, troublefree experience. Weight obsession among cyclists is legendary, but in reality, stressing over a couple hundred grams doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider that having a bike you can actually enjoy riding will probably lead you to lose much more weight than that relatively quickly. Personally, I'd go for strength every time in this situation because odds are if you don't, you'll end up trashing rims and cost yourself more money in the long run.

Silly me. I thought this was a thread about leg size.

+1...couldn't agree more

lmao!

Yes, I heard the formation faces were pretty good too. I may use those when its time for a new set of wheels on my track bike.

I mainly like to go on fast paced rides, general training, and to have fun. I dont race(not yet anyway). So I figured that I should build a set of wheels for my road bike that are strong instead of light. If there is such a noticeable weight different between the wheels I have now and the wheels I want to build, I will just have to train and get faster on the heavier, but stronger wheelset. LOL. The last thing I need is to get 20+miles from home and have rims warping and spokes popping.

Since my wheels on my road bike are jacked up right now, I have actually been training on my fixed gear track bike on the road. LOL. Talk about fun!

I'm really not getting the logic of these rims. At 615 grams they are boat anchors. You can get nice strong rims that weigh much less.

The 40mm depth could give you some aero advantage, but a 32 spoke wheel is going to give all that back.

For the OP, at 145 lbs, a 615 gram rim, particularly with 32 spokes, would be gross overkill.

VeloNewbie, exactly what problems are you having with your current wheel? How many spokes? What's the lacing pattern? What make and model spokes?

DA hubs have good flange spacing and the CXP33 is a strong rim. A well built wheel with those components and good spokes ought to be very durable even on poor roads.

My stock wheel on my bike was squeaking and creaking. I brought it in several times only to hear that it was fine. I could not take the noise as it drove me crazy. I transfered that wheel to my daughters bike and it is silent. The mechanic was right when he said it was probably my weight 185 lb

I bought a hand build from the mechanic is a master wheel builder. He asked what I wanted weight or strength. I said I was not too worried about weight but did not want too heavy and would prefer it was stronger than lighter. I left it up to him

He laced a cpx33 to an Ultegra. It is a good wheel straight and true with no worries.

While I do not know the rim you speak of I am surprised you are having problems with the cpx 33. I am not easy on equipment and have no issues with that rim

One day while riding, my bike became ill-handling. While going down a hill, I glanced at my rear wheel and noticed it was wobbling. It was fine in the beginning of the ride. A few weeks prior to that, the LBS re-trued my rear wheel. He informed me that it was the most he could get out of it because some of my spokes were bottomed out. I bought the wheels used. They were in good shape when I bought them. I get home after the ride and noticed in some areas of the wheel, it was rubbing the pads. I knew then the rim was bent along with 2 popped spokes.
I'm not sure what kind of spokes were used. I wish I knew. They are 32h. The front is still ok, but the back is shot. They are old cxp33's, evidence of the older decals on them. SL42's may be overkill, but I may not have to worry about them for a while. What about the Mavic cosmic wheelset?

As you suspect by your question, for the non racer, strength is always more important that a couple hundred grams. But you are light OP. You don't need 32 spoke wheels. I am 185 lbs and have always ridden production built Campy wheels (and others) that virtually never need to be trued. So you don't need custom wheels either. You can find bulletproof 1750 gram production wheels for $300..say Fulcrum 5's which Campy says are hand built...or find a very nice 1500 gram wheels like Fulcrum 3's for $500 or almost twice as much for about a 200 gram weight reduction. A guy like you can ride 1500g wheels without issue. The Fulcrum 3's would hold up find for me as well...they are very strong. But, there is a reason why there are no 900g wheelsets out there. For most of us there is sweetspot. So you will have to find yours based upon how light and how much you want to spend.

Hi,

Contrary to what a lot of people think, wheel weight isn't much more important than any other. It's pretty much bicycle + rider total weight that matters.

For accelerating (but not climbing hills and not maintaining a constant speed), the weight of tires and the rim count as double weight. But even if we consider heavy wheels versus light wheels (particularly when we don't count hub weight), these differences are still small and for must of us, losing a couple of pounds around the waist is a bigger change than having light wheels.

Unless you are racing, it really makes more sense IMHO to buy good quality durable wheels (with good bearings) instead of light wheels.

Cheers,
Charles

+1

I had the wheelbuilder at the LBS put together some touring wheels for my Trek 700 (already a heavy bike by today's standards) and gained about 150g but the performance difference made up for it many times over. I always find it humorous when someone looks at my road bike, an old Trek 1500 (about 24 pounds), and remarks that I should get a lighter bike when I'm still 40 pounds overweight. If find it even more amusing when I see someone who's just as overweight as I am laying out big cash for a carbon fiber seat post and titanium pedals to save 100g. If you play with the online tools it demonstrates that on the flat at a steady pace, the difference in speed for the same wattage is very minute for a 10-pound weight savings. Even in hills or when sprinting, the difference between 250 pounds combined weight and 240 pounds isn't all that great. When I get down to 12% bodyfat or lower I'll start worrying about that 5-10 pounds of bike. Right now, putting me on a carbon fiber Ultegra equipped bike would be like putting a Cummins diesel in a Corvette.

I'd generally agree with that but a couple of points:

1) 1900 gram wheels are going to be heavy enough that you'll feel the difference. It will only be a fractional difference in actual time, but a bike with 1500 gram wheels feels more responsive and fun to ride than a bike with 1900 gram wheels.

2) It would appear those rims are more about being a fashion statement than about durability. A 145 pound rider doesn't need a 615 gram, 40 mm deep 32 spoke rim. In fact I'd bet that wheel would ride rather harsh for a 145 pound rider.

There are a number of options around 400 grams per rim that would make for a durable wheel for the OP.

I would be surprised if you kept the same hub, tires, and pressure if you could really tell the difference. I can easily imagine that a better hub makes a huge difference. And I certainly know that different tires/pressure makes a huge difference as well.

(I suppose it's only fair to point out that I have been surprised in the past... )

Actually there a couple of sub 900 gram wheelsets. Reynolds RZR, and Mercury M Zero's for examples.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2011/09/21/...o-road-wheels/

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/pr...6753.41.1.html

Amazingly the M Zero's have arider weight limit of 225 pounds, and allegedly are suitable for cyclocross.

Bit pricey though.

Light, strong, inexpensive; pick two.

I've got a bunch of different wheelsets from the lightest at 1175 grams up to probably 1700 grams. A bike definitely feels lighter and more responsive with lighter wheels.

For example I have a pair of Zipp 404 clinchers, with Al rims that are reasonably heavy. You can feel a difference getting them up to speed compared to a light set of conventional wheels.

Admittedly, my anecdotal accounts of "feel" aren't scientific, and you could argue there's a plecebo effect. But even if it is a plecebo effect, whatever the ccause, lighter wheels are more fun to ride.

Figured a 900g wheelset would be mentioned...lol.
Quite right...pick two.

Do you really feel no downside of lighter wheels Merlin? Do you believe they 'feel' as good as heavier wheels? I don't dispute the spool up difference...or even climbing difference carrying a heavier wheelset up hill...or even placebo has some veracity as you imply. So I believe there is some quantifiable performance difference albeit neglegible for non racers. But feel? To me, heavier wheels have better ride qualiy. To me lighter wheels transmit more road noise aka telegraph road imperfections more readily due to reduced mass. Basically conservation of momentum. Light rims and even very stiff light rimmed wheels...the front wheel in particular that steers..deflects more in terms of torque steer over rough road surfaces. That is my experience.

Are the hubs the same (or equivalent(ish)) on the different wheels? And same tires and pressures?

I have no qualms about the placebo effect, I'm just not rich enough to want to use it.

If nothing else, you could send me the wheels and I'll do a blind test...

*cough* *cough*

Getting back to our regularly scheduled program...

^^ There may be some advantage to the added weight of a heavier wheel for stability. (more mass more gyroscope effect) In the current issue of Road Bike Action, they used the Reynold RZR's on their lightweight project bike, and they said they preferred descending with heavier wheels, so their may be a point (875 grams) where the wheels feel too light for everyday riding.

The feeling that I was alluding to of the bike being quick to accelerate, light and responsive, may lead to somone else having that same feeling but perceiving it as squirrely.

My Zipp 303 tubulars weigh 1175 grams (slight lighter than the current firecrest 303's which have deeper rims) and I love how they ride and corner, They're my favorite wheels for crits and descending. However, I think there's more at work than just the weight, i.e. rim stiffness, spoke count, and most notably the tires.

So in my experience, it may be possible for a wheel to be too light, but for me that point would be below 1175 grams.

Couple of sets of Zipp hubs, one white industries, one dura ace, one ultegra, and similar tires and same air pressure. So I don't think those are meaningful differences.

Type of rim, rim depth, spoke count would likely all have some effect independent of weight.

I could see this being true^^^

You guys all have great responses so far. We are getting scientific....I LOVE IT!

I will say this. The wheels I had built for my track bike are ALOT heavier than the current wheels on my road bike. I have been using my track bike in replacement of my road bike until I figure out which way I will go with the new wheels. That being said, I can notice a pretty big difference in the wheel weights. Hillclimbing sucks on my track bike with the heavy wheels, but, the momentum on flats is great! I can DEFINITELY notice the difference between the way each wheel rpm's. Im not sure if I would want wheels that heavy on my road rig, BUT, I believe the wheels I was wanting to build for my road bike(SL42 rims, Dura Ace hubs, 32h, etc) are still going to be lighter than the wheels on my track bike. So it may be a good median. But I can somewhat agree that maybe the build I want to go with would be a LITTLE overkill for my road bike.