Testing New Wheels
03-13-13 | 06:10 PM
#202
Jet Jockey
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,941
Likes: 30
From: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike, Bike Friday Haul-a-Day, Surly Pugsley.
The math on vertical deflection of a properly built wheel has been done. Thickness of a sheet of paper difference when varying spoke patterns, rims, etc. There are differences, but below the threshold of perception.
Lateral deflection of a wheel is a function of appropriate build for weight/power. If you flex your wheel around, you have the wrong wheel. Or it simply wasn't built right.
Ride "quality" being largely a function of acoustic feedback mostly applies to frames. Normalizing for tires, the differences between most frames in terms of "quality" (harsh/smooth/etc) is largely below a real tactile perception threshold. Most humans are, however, profoundly synesthetic beings. Hit the same rough patch of road with two different bikes, and most of your idea of the perception of the ride "quality" will be a function of the acoustic feedback paired with the physical perception. Not to mention whatever cognitive preconceptions have been "pre-loaded" from the marketing literature and the optical qualities of the bike.
Lateral flex under power, or torsion about the bottom bracket, is quite real. What is disputed is if it makes any real difference in terms of "power to the pavement" provided that the lateral flex isn't so severe that friction (brake rub, etc) is being introduced to the system.
People get really angry about these notions too, and I don't understand why.
Lateral deflection of a wheel is a function of appropriate build for weight/power. If you flex your wheel around, you have the wrong wheel. Or it simply wasn't built right.
Ride "quality" being largely a function of acoustic feedback mostly applies to frames. Normalizing for tires, the differences between most frames in terms of "quality" (harsh/smooth/etc) is largely below a real tactile perception threshold. Most humans are, however, profoundly synesthetic beings. Hit the same rough patch of road with two different bikes, and most of your idea of the perception of the ride "quality" will be a function of the acoustic feedback paired with the physical perception. Not to mention whatever cognitive preconceptions have been "pre-loaded" from the marketing literature and the optical qualities of the bike.
Lateral flex under power, or torsion about the bottom bracket, is quite real. What is disputed is if it makes any real difference in terms of "power to the pavement" provided that the lateral flex isn't so severe that friction (brake rub, etc) is being introduced to the system.
People get really angry about these notions too, and I don't understand why.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
03-13-13 | 06:40 PM
#203
Thread Starter
King Hoternot
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City, OR
Bikes: 2015 Cannondale Evo Hi mod
The math on vertical deflection of a properly built wheel has been done. Thickness of a sheet of paper difference when varying spoke patterns, rims, etc. There are differences, but below the threshold of perception.
Lateral deflection of a wheel is a function of appropriate build for weight/power. If you flex your wheel around, you have the wrong wheel. Or it simply wasn't built right.
Ride "quality" being largely a function of acoustic feedback mostly applies to frames. Normalizing for tires, the differences between most frames in terms of "quality" (harsh/smooth/etc) is largely below a real tactile perception threshold. Most humans are, however, profoundly synesthetic beings. Hit the same rough patch of road with two different bikes, and most of your idea of the perception of the ride "quality" will be a function of the acoustic feedback paired with the physical perception. Not to mention whatever cognitive preconceptions have been "pre-loaded" from the marketing literature and the optical qualities of the bike.
Lateral flex under power, or torsion about the bottom bracket, is quite real. What is disputed is if it makes any real difference in terms of "power to the pavement" provided that the lateral flex isn't so severe that friction (brake rub, etc) is being introduced to the system.
People get really angry about these notions too, and I don't understand why.
Lateral deflection of a wheel is a function of appropriate build for weight/power. If you flex your wheel around, you have the wrong wheel. Or it simply wasn't built right.
Ride "quality" being largely a function of acoustic feedback mostly applies to frames. Normalizing for tires, the differences between most frames in terms of "quality" (harsh/smooth/etc) is largely below a real tactile perception threshold. Most humans are, however, profoundly synesthetic beings. Hit the same rough patch of road with two different bikes, and most of your idea of the perception of the ride "quality" will be a function of the acoustic feedback paired with the physical perception. Not to mention whatever cognitive preconceptions have been "pre-loaded" from the marketing literature and the optical qualities of the bike.
Lateral flex under power, or torsion about the bottom bracket, is quite real. What is disputed is if it makes any real difference in terms of "power to the pavement" provided that the lateral flex isn't so severe that friction (brake rub, etc) is being introduced to the system.
People get really angry about these notions too, and I don't understand why.
I will be the first to say that my comprehension level isn't the highest, but seriously when I try to read your comments, my brain goes numb before I can finish. Once finished, I have no idea what I just read. Feel free to dummy it up a bit every now and then.
03-14-13 | 11:11 AM
#204
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
03-14-13 | 01:46 PM
#205
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 766
Likes: 0
From: Sebring, Florida
Bikes: Trek Navigator, LeMond Buenos Aires, Madone 5.9, S-Works Roubaix
I say all of the above. The engagement of the hub seemed more responsive. It engaged instantly and I felt that the hub felt more "solid". I would also say it felt smoother while pedaling on flats. With the short ride that I did, though I may be confusing the smoothness with the combination of the 23 wide rim and low psi 23mm tire. The differences were very subtle, but I was able to notice it. This is not to say that my Boyds feel bad compared to the Chris king hub either.
One thing that drove me absolutely BANANA SANDWHICH was the sound of the CK hub!!! I'm sure I would get used to it, but as of now, I am not. I ride with an earphone in right ear and when I was at a steady pace or pedaling I could not hear the free hub at all. BUT instances where I was climbing and then got to the top I would sometimes find myself pausing my cadence as I recovered. In that slight moment where I paused, I could hear the free hub out of my left ear. It wasn't SUPER loud, but it was a sound that my ear has not been accustomed to yet. Since it was an unfamiliar sound, I found myself looking over my shoulder a lot more because it sounded like a car was approaching. Again, I'm sure I would get used to the sound over time.
One thing that drove me absolutely BANANA SANDWHICH was the sound of the CK hub!!! I'm sure I would get used to it, but as of now, I am not. I ride with an earphone in right ear and when I was at a steady pace or pedaling I could not hear the free hub at all. BUT instances where I was climbing and then got to the top I would sometimes find myself pausing my cadence as I recovered. In that slight moment where I paused, I could hear the free hub out of my left ear. It wasn't SUPER loud, but it was a sound that my ear has not been accustomed to yet. Since it was an unfamiliar sound, I found myself looking over my shoulder a lot more because it sounded like a car was approaching. Again, I'm sure I would get used to the sound over time.
I love my CK hub but I'm a little disappointed at the reliability. The first one the flange cracked on the non-drive side (they replaced it under warranty) and the second one the bearings were destroyed at about 5,000 miles and I'm waiting for them to be replaced now.
03-14-13 | 05:16 PM
#206
Thread Starter
King Hoternot
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City, OR
Bikes: 2015 Cannondale Evo Hi mod
Demo set #3
I CANT WAIT TO GET OUT AND RIDE THESE. I'm almost as excited to just sit in my garage and look at them!!!
Edge Enve 45 carbon clinchers
21mm wide
Chris king R45 hubs
CX Ray Sapim spokes
same tubes, same tape, same tires
Edge Enve 45 carbon clinchers
21mm wide
Chris king R45 hubs
CX Ray Sapim spokes
same tubes, same tape, same tires
Last edited by bianchi10; 03-14-13 at 05:22 PM.
03-14-13 | 06:10 PM
#214
Thread Starter
King Hoternot
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City, OR
Bikes: 2015 Cannondale Evo Hi mod
03-14-13 | 06:28 PM
#216
Thread Starter
King Hoternot
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City, OR
Bikes: 2015 Cannondale Evo Hi mod
03-14-13 | 06:37 PM
#217
Speechless
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,842
Likes: 39
From: Central NY
Bikes: Felt Brougham, Lotus Prestige, Cinelli Xperience,
03-14-13 | 06:40 PM
#218
Thread Starter
King Hoternot
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City, OR
Bikes: 2015 Cannondale Evo Hi mod
I dont know. my 5 year old daughter(first born) seems to be getting her period or something! She has had some nasty attitude lately and I'm about to lose it. I'm sure after she turns 8 it will just gets easier though....right???? lol!
03-14-13 | 07:12 PM
#220
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,095
Likes: 5
From: Boone, North Carolina
Bikes: 2009 Cannondale CAAD9-6 2014 Trek Domaine 5.9
03-14-13 | 07:24 PM
#222
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: Cary, NC
BTW, those wheels look sweeeeeet!!!
03-14-13 | 08:30 PM
#225
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 6
From: Lewisburg, TN
Bikes: Mikkelsen custom steel, Santa Cruz Chameleon SS, old trek trainer bike
Damn... those Enve's are sweet. CK R45's with a good road tubeless compatible rim are on my wish list. Too bad Fulcrums 3 2-ways do such a darn good job and never die...