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The imaginary benefits of modern race equipment

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The imaginary benefits of modern race equipment

Old 03-08-13, 01:47 PM
  #101  
caloso
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You can still get handmade cotton tubulars. I have some on my, wait for it, wait for it, race wheels.
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Old 03-08-13, 01:52 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by caloso
You can still get handmade cotton tubulars. I have some on my, wait for it, wait for it, race wheels.
If they are race wheels, why do we have to wait on them?
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Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
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Old 03-08-13, 02:28 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27
Ride whatever you want, you dusty old fart! We'll be waiting for you back at Starbucks loading our Colnagos back on our M3s when you get dropped.
I don't know why, but I 'd at this.
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Old 03-08-13, 02:39 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by patentcad
The next thing you'll tell me is my Bogner Shiva guitar amp won't make me a better guitar player.
I hear those fancy Bogners make even the wrong notes sound oh so right.
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Old 03-08-13, 02:55 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Six jours
As a grumpy old man, I'm kind of tired of hearing about how much faster today's race bikes are as compared with those from 20, 30, 40 years ago. People seem to think that anything not swoopy and carbon and.......
[/RANT]
False argument. Where are all of these people telling you such BS? What you're really saying is that you're tired of hearing of all these people enjoying their fancy carbon bicycles... nobody with half a pea-brain is saying that the bike is any faster.
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Old 03-08-13, 03:02 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by MegaTom
False argument. Where are all of these people telling you such BS? What you're really saying is that you're tired of hearing of all these people enjoying their fancy carbon bicycles... nobody with half a pea-brain is saying that the bike is any faster.
As has been noted in another thread, norms change. In many parts of this country, possessing half a pea-brain would put you well to the right side of the peak on the bell curve...
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Old 03-08-13, 03:06 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by bsektzer
As has been noted in another thread, norms change. In many parts of this country, possessing half a pea-brain would put you well to the right side of the peak on the bell curve...
Touché.
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Old 03-08-13, 03:20 PM
  #108  
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I've raced with (indexed!) 6-speed downtube shifters against riders using STI, Campy Ergo, SRAM shifters as recently as 2009. It isn't all that bad, but if you think it's not a definite disadvantage, you're insane.

EDIT: Sprinting and tempo changes on climbs are bad enough - ever try racing cyclocross with bar ends? Horrible! Integrated shifters are WAY better than the alternatives, and let's not kid ourselves; they wouldn't have caught on if this wasn't true. The only reason the other options still cling to life is cost, but I wouldn't advise putting much money on Shimano continuing to make DT shifters for 10 more years.

In general, there's a lot of myths/wishful thinking out there about the supposed problems with modern bikes and components. For example.

Originally Posted by Sidney Porter
Maybe...
Down tube and barcons are more durable, cheaper
Cheaper, sure. More durable? In principle, sure, but not in a way that will actually effect 99.99% of riders. Integrated shift levers are harder to break than you think, and they wear out more slowly than you think, too.

Originally Posted by Sidney Porter
and easier to setup than brifters
Heh, NOPE. At worst, they're about the same.

Originally Posted by Sidney Porter
8 speed drive trains are more durable and cheaper than 9,10 and 11
Cheaper? Yeah. More durable? Not in my experience. The important dimensions for wear on chains are the internal ones, and these actually are very similar between all of these chains. Throw in the fact that the newer stuff uses better materials and better manufacturing processes (=more expensive), and you really have little difference, if any.

Originally Posted by Sidney Porter
Steel frames are more durable, modifiable and repairable than carbon
Durability depends. In some ways, CF is more brittle or vulnerable. In other ways, it's actually stronger (I think a CF frame might actually be less likely to crack from riding stress). In repairability, CF kicks steel's ass - it's much more cost effective to send a broken CF frame to Calfee or other carbon repair experts than to do the same with a steel frame. I'm not sure what you mean by "modifiable."

Originally Posted by Sidney Porter
That being said I completely agree that and would rather be on a modern drive train but there was less to go wrong with a 2x5 with friction down tube shifters.
There may have been less to go wrong, but things nonetheless went wrong more often. I've drawn a paycheck as a bike mechanic. Have you? Older bikes go out of adjustment and need fixing way more often than the new ones. And then they're harder to actually fix! I used to think the same way you did. I loved (and still love!) old bikes, but actually working as a bike mechanic completely killed the romantic myths I had built up in my head about how much simpler and less likely to go wrong old bikes were. These days, I tend to just buy new bikes because they are much simpler to live with.

The fancy new technologies like STI and more speeds and so on are pretty great and all, I think that the benefits that modern bikes get from modern manufacturing tolerances and materials science advances are hugely under appreciated by most people.

Last edited by grolby; 03-08-13 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 03-08-13, 03:26 PM
  #109  
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I don't understand why anyone would mess with toe clips and downtube shifters when you can buy a great bike that's 90% as good as a $10,000 bike for $600 used or $1200 new. There are plenty of cheap barely used 17-18# aluminum/crabon fiber bikes with 20 speeds and sti's and wide gearing ranges that could be used for racing without hurting your chance of being very competitive racing. Sorry, a 25-30# steel bike you bought at a garage sale would slow you down racing, and a vintage 20# racer would cost more than a modern bike that's more capable.

The advancement of technology and everyone wanting the latest thing is great for trickling down though. I mean tiagra is 10 speed and crabon bikes aren't even expensive new anymore.
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Old 03-08-13, 03:34 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Amesja
Why do birds suddenly appear, every time, you are near?
just like you,
they long to be,
close to you...
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Old 03-08-13, 04:06 PM
  #111  
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What's "crabon"?

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Old 03-08-13, 04:09 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
What's "crabon"?

That is how a 20 speed aluminum bike rides after being raced hard, crashed and sold.
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Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
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Old 03-08-13, 04:45 PM
  #113  
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The best part of this thread is that SJ hasn't made a mention in 5 pages, he must be laughing his butt off!

I remember working on old school bottom brackets, loved the smoothness of campy, but it could take 20 minutes to adjust those suckers and then when you got the crank on still find some play so off came the crank once again... As a full time mechanic and parts manager in the 80's when people talk about the simplicity of working on old school equipment I just laugh. To be fair I still love the stuff from a nostalgia and romance side of things. I don't think that as a 16 year old the more modern equipment could have installed the passion in me that reading ads for Tomasso, Somec, Colnago, etc. did for me back in the day (ok, maybe Breaking Away did it to). I haven't turned a wrench in 20 years but just assembled my last bike, could not believe how easy it was comparatively to vintage equipment.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:12 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by jsharr
I want to respond to this thread, but will refrain until my new high modulus CF keyboard arrives from Italy, in order to be able to respond better and faster.
You should have gotten the DI2 version, yours is already outdated.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:12 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by robbyville
I don't think that as a 16 year old the more modern equipment could have installed the passion in me that reading ads for Tomasso, Somec, Colnago, etc. did for me back in the day (ok, maybe Breaking Away did it to). I haven't turned a wrench in 20 years but just assembled my last bike, could not believe how easy it was comparatively to vintage equipment.
I still get passionate thinking about building a new wheel set out of a SONdeluxe front dyno and a VO touring hub that breaks down without tools. The perfect rando wheelset.. I lay awake at night sometimes thinking about the "wish list" upgrades I wish I could do to all my various bikes.

What gets me passionate today isn't exactly what got me passionate in the 80's. But new stuff can still get me passionate. And some old stuff can still get me passionate too. I still get goose bumps every time I throw a leg over my Raleigh Competition frame in 531 Reynolds and feel the road imperfections ooze away into nearly imperceptiveness.

But I'm not a full-on retrogrouch as I've probably got the one of the only 70's Raleigh 531 framesets running modern indexed shifting, Dura ace external bottom bracket, and a carbon seatpost. I take the best of all times and mix them all up. There are some modern improvements that have cheapened the industry and others that have enrichened it too.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:15 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by DaveWC
The imaginary logic of telling others what they need, what they will benefit from and what they should own. Why again?
You dont need these answers
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Old 03-08-13, 05:25 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
The irony here is that for the most part people that actually race realize that equipment differences are a very small part of the equation, and that it doesn't make much difference, except at the margin, and if you're already competitive.

The compulsing about equipment comes much more from the 41 than the 33.
Would you be as competitive on a 25 year old steel bike? I dont get the reasoning here. Everyone I know that races has a fairly new, up to date bike. I dont know anyone that races a 23 lbs steel bike with 27 inchx1 1/18 tires.
I understand that it isnt necessary, but I dont see anyone giving up any advantage that they can afford to buy.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:26 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by MegaTom
I hear those fancy Bogners make even the wrong notes sound oh so right.
Dude, dont encourage him.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:28 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
What's "crabon"?

you need the special cream and comb from your Dr.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:32 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by ls01
I understand that it isnt necessary, but I dont see anyone giving up any advantage that they can afford to buy.
For many people, it's not even about gaining or losing advantage. It's about fun.

Once you get to a certain quality level, the equipment isn't holding you back and everyone knows it. But if nicer equipment helps you enjoy things more, it's money well spent. It's not like you can take it with you. Put your money where your passion is.
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Old 03-08-13, 05:48 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by banerjek
For many people, it's not even about gaining or losing advantage. It's about fun.

Once you get to a certain quality level, the equipment isn't holding you back and everyone knows it. But if nicer equipment helps you enjoy things more, it's money well spent. It's not like you can take it with you. Put your money where your passion is.
After I re read the addressed comment, I think I miss took what Merlin was saying, 105 rather than D/A shouldnt be a problem. I thought we were still talking about old gas pipe and friction shifter. my bad.
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Old 03-08-13, 06:59 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Training.Wheels
I don't get it.. did you just quote and respond to yourself?
You must be new here.
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Old 03-08-13, 07:08 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Training.Wheels
I don't get it
Stick around fredly.
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Old 03-08-13, 07:10 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by MegaTom
I hear those fancy Bogners make even the wrong notes sound oh so right.
They don't suck.

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Old 03-08-13, 07:22 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Sidney Porter
Maybe...

Steel frames are more durable, and repairable than carbon
That's a big negative, good buddy.
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