There are enough functional differences that useful comparisons can be made. What it comes down to, though, is what really matters to the buyer.

I had shimano, moved to campy, now back with shimano... Nuff said.

50% of the price of my new bike:

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...ear-derailleur


S

http://www.microshift.com.tw/product_road.html

Check-out the grammar on this page:

http://www.microshift.com.tw/about.html

s

Also 120% of the full Centaur group I bought brand new last year.

Meaningless data points are meaningless.

Where's my stick...time to beat the horse a bit deader...

No love for Ofmega???

Never used Campy. I've been using Ultegra/600 or Dura Ace since the late eighties and never had a problem with anything in those ranges. High end Shimano stuff is very well designed and engineered. Also, IMO, components became uniformly excellent about 15 years ago. There's really nothing on the market at or above the Apex/105/Centaur level that doesn't work extremely well. You can't really go wrong.

Yes. I like being able to modulate the brake and shift at the same time.

Campy doesn't function ? Somehow the chain is moving between cogs, now I am puzzled ... Hmmmm

Fify.

Seriously, OP there are a few minor differences related to HOW the rider shifts gears which, along with how the levers fit your hands, is mostly about personal preference.

All of the products you mention will work very, very well and most likely you'll be quite happy with any of them.

Probably more important than anything else these days.

I rode Shimano equipment for 13+ years,
I installed Campy Record 11 after my Ultegra 10 was worn out. I'm never going back to Shimano..
for me, ergonomics are superior, equipment is lasting longer than previous shimano drivetrains.
when i converted my bike to Campy record from Ultegra it reduced 1lb of weight.

I love it. Well done!

I had Shimano Dura Ace and Ultegra. Then moved to Campy on all three road bike. Never, ever going back to Shi...tmano. Il meglio!

Sorry Robert but you are wrong. People who like Campy prefer it for good reason. I will disclose something that you may be surprised by.
The gap is narrowing...and may have evaporated completely or at least close enough to matter.
Campy's transistion to Ultrashift in 2009 was a watershed for ergonomics. There is a saying... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. What has Shimano and Sram done in the last year? Mimicked the hood shape of Campy. Previous Sram Red and DA7900 had horrible ergos compared to Campy. Not even in the same league. That all has changed. New DA9000 ergos are outstanding. No surprise that redesigned DA now closely rivals Campy. Same with new Sram Red. Early Sram Red hoods looked but more importantly felt awful. New Sram Red is excellent.

Shifting ergos can be debated ad nasseum. Some will still prefer the button on the side of Campy to a greater displacement lever throw of Sram aka double tap...or separate brake lever as a shifter for DA. To me the button being there and taking up landscape turns this debate into a jump ball. I have ridden all the groupsets a fair amount. I work on a lot of top end bikes because I can tune bikes better than others and do this as a courtesy for my riding friends.
In summary, the gap has narrowed considerably. It maybe argued that new Sram Red and DA9000 are every bit as good as Campy 11s Record. But previous versions weren't even in the same league.

It is my understanding that many Campy components have replaceable parts, whereas their Shimano counterparts do not. It would seem this transcends aesthetic. My '92 Chorus group has performed flawlessly. If I was to get a new bike it would be a huge leap to jump ship, given my satisfaction with Campy groups since 1975. By the same token, those who have had great experience with Shimano would feel the same way.

You completely missed my point, which was that everyone prefers their favorite for good reason. My complaint is that in every one of these which-is-best threads post after post says no significant difference - pick the one you like best. Then a Campy guy comes in and says Campy is best and others are crap. Happens every time. You just did it with the "not in the same league" comment. It is just annoying that you never get it: that is just your opinion. The brands are essentially equivalent, and it is the small features that make someone prefer one to the other. Shimano and SRAM fans, in general, observe that lots of people like something different than they do and accept that, but Campy fans keep saying everyone else is wrong. In the case of your last post, you moderated a bit and only said that other folks USED to be wrong. Now that Shimano and SRAM are copying Campy, you allow that all three are good. That is just what I am talking about. The Campy superiority position is totally without foundation.

Your emphasis on ergonomics is interesting because that is by definition such a personal feature. From Shimano 600 (1983) to SRAM RED (2010) and everything in between including various Campy I have encountered on friends' bikes, I have never said to myself, "These brake levers are uncomfortable or wonderful." I basically do not know what you are talking about.

Here it is in a nutshell. No one is challenging your preference for yourself. But the distribution of the three brands among serious cyclists speaks for itself. None of these brands is better than the others to everyone or for everyone. And that is not a new development due to catch up by Shimano and SRAM as you suggest. It has been the status quo for a long time. Don't forget your own position about crowd consensus being powerful evidence of superiority expressed in my "where is the data about stiffness and power" thread. The inverse is true here. All the brands have been and are now widely used and widely popular. The buyers have spoken not for one, but for all three. The best advice to one who asks is the same as it has always been, and that is not simply buy Campy, it is best. The best advice is ride all three and make your choice.

You could have gone to Sram Red, and saved another tenth of a pound.

Of course that would be offset by the extra weight of your thicker wallet.

How do you like Centaur? seems like a pretty good deal all things considered. Have you discovered any shortcomings? I'm on the fence between Athena and Centaur for a de rosa I'm building.

And http://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...ear-derailleur

So what's your point?

I like it. The only things I have to compare it to are a 5700 group that I used for a month, and a flat bar road bike with SRAM X9 (which is brilliant shifting by the way). I do not like the Powertorque crank, and would not buy another. They take a special puller to disassemble, and I cannot get mine to not creak under load. Total Cycling has some NOS Athena UT cranks that you might want to look at.
The braking is lovely, and the front shifting is one of the nicest that I have dealt with. I would build Centaur again in a heart beat. I would consider Veloce as well, because the differences are not that large between the two.

Oops, I had Microshift 9 speed for awhile as well.

I am no expert, but I have never been drawn to Athena. I am toying with either making my Cinelli my rain bike and building something nicer, or building a rain bike out of a Nashbar frame I have and keeping the Cinelli nice. If I build nicer, I would do either Chorus or Centaur. If I build a rain bike, it would be Veloce or new Sora (because I have a couple of 9 speed cassettes and chains).

Which we will prove for the benefit of anyone who hasn't already seen a million of these threads as well as for the trolls who enjoy them.

One thing I am curious about is why in a bazillion threads about shifting performance, DT and bar end never get into the discussion. I've been riding shifters on the levers for a little over 10 years. Once in a long while, I throw the chain when shifting between rings because a tiny misadjustment in the FD can allow that to happen. But I've been riding DT and bar end for over 30 years. Number of thrown chains and blown shifts in that time -- Zero.

A configuration that makes an awful lot of sense to me would be to have a DT shifter for the FD and shifting on the hood for the RD since that would achieve flawless performance on the rings while making it really easy to make minute gearing changes without taking hands off the bars. On my 'bents, I ride exclusively with bar ends because I can use the palm of my hand and pinky in normal riding position to switch any number of gears very quickly. Again, not a single messed up shift. Ever. Add light weight and super reliability, and you'd think it would be a winning combo. But instead we move to electronic...

I'm as retrogrouch as the next guy, but even I admit that integrated shifting is a pretty good idea. The mechanisms are now very reliable and the ability to shift without moving your hands is very nice.

I will say that I'm never experienced shifting smoother than my old DT-based Dura Ace 7402. The early ninties 8 speed DA was absolutely bullet proof and worked flawlessly.

I often hear this argument and I think its meaningless. How often does anyone ever need to replace small parts on components? Anything consumable (rings, pulleys, cassettes etc) is already replaceable. Nothing else ever really breaks. I have 7 year old 6600 on my primary road bike with thousands upon thousands of miles on it and it still looks box fresh and works perfectly.

90%+ of the time, I'd say people replace componentry because they just want something new, not because anything "wears out". I guess you could crash and break something, but then you'd probably be replacing the whole component anyway. The "replaceable parts" argument is a canard.