Venge OSBB Carbon, DA 7900. After running on specialized BB adapter for almost 2 years, tons of grease and repacking, and hundreds of miles of annoying squeaks, I've decided to get a new BB adapter. I want to keep my DA 7900. I'm down to these two:

1. c-bear OSBB shimano, https://www.c-bear.com/en/osbb-en/shi...c-bearings.php, $185, all aluminum, 2 year warranty, ceramic

2. hawk racing BBS for Specialized OSBB, https://www.hawk-racing.com/products/show/15, $109+tax, material unknown, 1 year warranty, non-ceramic.

for obvious reasons c-bear sounds better, but I cant fathom the idea of paying $185 for bb adapters. if someone can throw in their experience with these two, it will make me decide easier. Anyone know what hawk racing material is? What is Acetal Copolymer? fancy name for plastic?

graci,
Joseph

I agree with you about C-bear. Only time I would run the pricey C-bear is with a Campy crank because it is effective. In that case I would choose the one piece press in alloy BSA sleeve. The solution you linked is simply a longer press of captured bearings. It could be argued it is a bit more robust that the factory solution...but not head and shoulders better...plus it still relies on a press fit.

What would I do in your shoes? Contact Praxis and tell them what BB you have and what crank..in your case DA.
The way it works is...the Praxis BB30 BB is what they will recommend. You press in the Specialized Delrin sleeves on both sides. Specialized OSBB on your Venge is a narrow version of PF30...about 7mm undersize width wise. With Specialized proprietary Delrin cups pressed in place, this evolves BB width to standard BB30 width of 68mm. Bore size of your press in cups is the same ID as BB30 bearings...hence the Praxis sleeve spec'ed for Specialized version of narrow PF-30 is the same as BB30.

Beauty of the Praxis BB is it is non invasive...it can be readily removed. There is no press. Instead it relies on a collet expansion joint to create an interference fit to the ID of the Delrin cups pressed in place. Praxis BB's also have captured bearings so you don't have to mess with bearings either. Your DA crank should be plug and play because the Praxis BB replicates outboard bearing spacing that matches Shimano crank spacing.

But there is a bit more OP. You needlessly suffered with a noisy BB. If you tried to maintain it then you didn't install the crank properly. If you had the shop do it, then they didn't. It isn't complex but it takes attention to detail. For your Venge BB, Specialized spec's green Loctite for both the OD of you press in Delrin bushings...AND Loctite for the OD of the BB30 bearings. If you did both which you likely didn't and why it was noisy, then surfaces weren't cleaned properly for adequate Loctite adhesion...or...you didn't adjust the axial pre-load of your DA correctly. If any of these steps are not performed, a good chance your crank will creak. Again, none of this stuff is difficult, it just needs to performed properly. The stock Venge BB serves hundred's of owners quietly with DA crank. A last note. If you decide on the Praxis BB which is the best sleeve integrated bearing solution, be sure to Loctite the Spesh Delrin bushings to the virgin carbon 46mm ID PF-30 (narrow) shell. If you don't then the bushings will creak and you will be back to square one.

HTH.

OP, this will solve your problem.

https://shop.praxis-works.com/Special...BB-68-3002.htm

I wish OSBB, BB30, PF30, BB386 and all their relatives would just go away.
World was much simpler when we had English and Italian BBs.

A counterpoint tho fst is...when just English and Italian BB's existed, cranks weren't nearly as evolved. Cranks are much better today.
The biggest problem with the variants mentioned is improper set up. BB30 is simple and much less expensive then cartridge BB's of years past. They are also much lighter and much stiffer. When the average guy tries to set one up, he could well fall short of what is required. If you re-read what the OP wrote, I believe he falls in this camp. Copious greasing of this BB type will not solve a creaking issue. This also pertains to the low training level of local bike shop techs. No it isn't easy to keep up with all the std's for those that aren't tech heads. As it turns out the new BB's are all highly derivative of one another and have similar installation practices. BB30 and PF30 derivatives take 30 minutes to service and good bearings can be attained for less than $20 a set.

Sorry, I have an Ultegra 6700 crankset on my Roubaix SL2 with Outboard bearings (68MM threaded) and an Ultegra 9 speed Octalink crankset with the older style BB on my Jamis Aurora. I can't tell the difference between the two other than one is a tad lighter than the other. I think BB30 and all its cousins are a simple marketing ploy to get people to upgrade. Luckily, there are still companies producing bikes with the older/proven BBs. For the non-racer market, I think the older style is a better choice.

We will agree to disagree. Further bike companies disagree with you. Marketing is an ingredient but the not the salient reason why BB30 exists. Cost, weight and stiffness is why it exists. Just because you don't put down the power to feel the difference..or can't feel the weight difference, doesn't mean BB30 isn't stiffer and weigh less...both directionally correct to performance. Further BB30 is much cheaper for the bike owner compared to replacing your DA or Ultegra captured threaded BB bearings. Other variants for example considered by the OP because he hasn't figured out how to set up his BB properly are even more expensive. If you look at the industry, BB30 isn't going anywhere. If you look at perhaps the most tech evolved company Specialized with heavy R&D, their 2014 offerings are almost all going to BB30 or Spesh version of PF30. They aren't doing this to degrade their product. They do it because they believe in it.

BTW, yes acetal copolymer is the technical name for a Delrin-like plastic. Not exactly the same thing, but similar. Acetal copolymer should be a bit more flexible and is slightly less expensive. It may not be as tough as Delrin in resistance to impact.

Are you channeling your inner Mike Sinyard now?
Please step away from the cool aid.

As far as watts go, you are probably right. I am no Jens Voigt. He can pedal by just looking at the pedals, and I can only crank it up to 11.

Don't have to channel him nor does he have to speak himself. The products speak for themselves. All Specialized finest performance bikes...including all the top race bikes from all the best mfr's are either BB30 or PF30. In fact, speaking of coolaid, Shimano has finally partaken. For 2014 Shimano is coming out with a BB30 version of their cranks.

BB30 was a marketing ploy from Cannondale, and it took. When the industry went that way, Specialized had to follow. Shimano has no choice at this point since they don't make bikes and the whole adapter thing has become crazy. Now, Trek has a BB86.5 on their cyclocross bikes, what the heck is that?

I am glad you are happy with your choice. I am happy with mine. My next bike is going to be a custom Ti bike with an English bracket.

No Specialized didn't have to follow. Either did Trek, Scott, Look, Giant or Cervelo...lol.
I will say this. Your decision to go with a custom Ti bike fits with your allegiance to threaded BB's. You pretty much have to go custom moving forward because threaded BB's are going the way of the 8 track.

I am getting a custom Ti bike because I want a light bike with rack and fender mounts for commuting. Would like to keep the weight under 17 lbs including the rack (but not fenders) :-)

OP, sorry for the thread hijack. It looks like you should take your bike to a competent mechanic to validate the original install.

Sounds like it will be a great bike. I own a Ti 29er with threaded BB and love the bike. Mine isn't nearly that light however. Hope you post a write up when you get it.

hello, sepo
In the same boat, just wonder what did you end up and experiences?

Hawk ($109+tax) vs c-bear ($185).
c-bear seems a much better deal, ceramic bearings + alum., for less then $70 difference!

No sure if official specialized site, specialized people mentioned good experience with c-bear
https://specialized.desk.com/customer...v-pro-frameset

Reading the thread, is Hawk material therefore acetal copolymer. Quoting rpenmanparker " technical name for a Delrin-like plastic. Not exactly the same thing, but similar. Acetal copolymer should be a bit more flexible and is slightly less expensive. It may not be as tough as Delrin in resistance to impact. "
My question,if Delrin is tougher, already so much problem, will the Acetal copolymer material be even worse.

Praxis solution - if I understand correctly, it is to be pressed onto Specialized supplied Delrin cup, which MUST be loctite secured.
How many sets do we need to fit a shimano to the specialized frame????

C-bear solution - press in, one set, no loctite ("non invasive" definitely) , that is it. Did I miss anything?

To clear up a few things. First Delrin is a Dupont trade name for Acetal. View them as the same thing. There are many grades of Acetal as well as Delrin.
It appears...C-bear is notoriously lousy about technical descriptions of their various BB's on their website...that their product has an aluminum body.
Their PF30 version for Specialized is 46mm ID and it is a press fit right to the virgin PF30 version of Spesh carbon frame. This IS invasive versus not. Pressing aluminum into carbon fiber isn't widely done in the industry and why PF30 has Delrin bushings.
It is unclear from Hawk's website if their product presses into Spesh 42mm ID PF30 Delrin bushings OR their BB is 46 OD and presses right into the carbon PF30 shell. You would need to contact them to ask them.

In summary you have many options. To me almost $200 for a BB is ridiculous. C-bear's prices are stupid high so they are ruled out.
Hawk for about 1/2 is a better solution. If you want the most solid approach...go Praxis even though they spec a standard BB30 for Spesh version of PF30 which requires Delrin bushings supplied by Specialized. Even if you epoxy the Delrin bushings to the PF30 narrow that Spesh has on its Sworks bike this is fine for a number of reasons. First, you aren't pressing anything with high press into the carbon BB. If you expoxy the Delrin bushings to the carbon frame which Specialized calls for in their spec....now you have very robust composite of carbon and Delrin what won't squeak and the carbon shell will be protected. Knocking out low shear epoxy bonded thin Delrin bushings will do no harm to the all carbon BB. Next, the Praxis BB is not only cheaper....but expands into position and is rock solid. There is no press. So if you want a good cost effective solution this is the way to go.

If you want to effectively mount say a DA crank to Spesh Sworks bike the cheapest approach is:
1. Epoxy Specialized supplied Delrin bushings to all carbon BB shell.
2. Press in good quality BB30 bearings.
3. mount Wheel Mfg adapters which reduces bearing ID from 30mm to 24mm.
4. mount DA crank normally.

The reason anybody has squeaks with the above approach is they don't epoxy the Delrin bushings to the all carbon shell. Above solution will not only give you thousands of miles of solid performance but high quality BB30 bearings are cheap and easy to change versus any integrated spendy solution from C-bear, Hawk or even Praxis.

A last note. Yes DA cranks are great. But me personally if I buy a $4K frameset with PF30, I am going to mount a BB30 crank on it. Design intent. No adapters.
HTH.

I now have a Shimano with 68 mm OB cups on my Spec, but when I had my Look with 68 mm OB cups, with a Sram BB, the Sram freewheeled much easier than the Shimano. Meaning if I backed pedaled, or spun the crank backwards on the Sram, it would spin like I had no chain on it.

George,
When putting that out there, you really need to be more specific as to what the comparison is.
Two things of relevance:
1. The preload which is adjustable on your Shimano crank can affect ability to free spin as you mention.
2. BB bearing seals affect ability for a crank to free spin. Even viscosity of grease affects this. Both have very little influence on overall crank performance or robbing of any wattage the rider may expend to propel the bicycle.
FYI

I really didn't know you could adjust it. When I greased it, I thought that would make it spin easier, but it didn't. As you said though, if it doesn't effect it, just leave it be. When I seen what the op was doing, I though I may give it a try. Thanks for the reply.

Curious how you greased it George? Shimano BB's are effectively sealed. To clean regrease you have to remove the spindle from the BB and then you pretty much have to readjust preload which dictates no lateral lash and securing the left crank arm in the right position.
Post if you have any further concerns.

I just took it off the bike and greased where the spindle makes contact with the BB cups. Cleaned everything up and screwed it back together. I didn't use a torque wrench, I just screwed it on as far as I could and used the bb wrench to tighten it a little more, not a lot.

DA and Ultegra provide a small black cogged plastic wheel to adjust preload with each crankset. Also this wheel is generally available on the spanner wrench end used to tightened the BB. If you didn't use one when you reinstalled your crank, then you have likely too much end play. Plastic wheel provides preload while you tighten both pinch bolts on the left crank arm.
See below:

Sorry I forgot to add that and yes I did that to snug it up. Thanks again.

Sorry for being stubborn, personally I do not go for the option where

1. epoxy Specialized Delrin when it is not supposed to in the first place.
   
2. wheel mfg – adding another foreign plastic part to the Delrin

Common sense tells me sooner or later, I will be kicking my bike for creaking noises. From what I read so far, many experienced sooner than others.

“Pressing aluminum into carbon fiber isn't widely done in the industry” not widely done does not equate to no-no, is it? Those who do, are they more innovative, daring, or....

So Hawk , Praxis, Wheel, Specialized Delrin are all out. What other options? Cbear is pretty quick in replying and did a good job convincing me. Who else should I consider?